Blue and Orange Morality: Difference between revisions

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{{quote|"''If you have struck any kind of bargain with Griphook, and most particularly if that bargain involves treasure, you must be exceptionally careful. Goblin notions of ownership, payment, and repayment are not the same as human ones.''"|'''Bill Weasley,''' ''[[Harry Potter (Franchise)/Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows|Harry Potter]]''}}
{{quote|"''If you have struck any kind of bargain with Griphook, and most particularly if that bargain involves treasure, you must be exceptionally careful. Goblin notions of ownership, payment, and repayment are not the same as human ones.''"|'''Bill Weasley,''' ''[[Harry Potter (Franchise)/Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows|Harry Potter]]''}}


To say that questions of [[White and Gray Morality|morality]] are thorny and [[Grey and Gray Morality|filled with gray]] when they aren't being [[Black and White Morality|hammered]] between [[Black and Gray Morality|stark]] [[Evil Versus Evil|absolutes]] is putting it mildly. Because of this there can be great drama when characters who [[Shades of Conflict|represent a wide range]] of moral viewpoints come [[Teeth Clenched Teamwork|together]] or into conflict.
To say that questions of [[White and Gray Morality|morality]] are thorny and [[Grey and Gray Morality|filled with gray]] when they aren't being [[Black and White Morality|hammered]] between [[Black and Gray Morality|stark]] [[Evil Versus Evil|absolutes]] is putting it mildly. Because of this there can be great drama when characters who [[Shades of Conflict|represent a wide range]] of moral viewpoints come [[Teeth-Clenched Teamwork|together]] or into conflict.


The strangest of these characters are those who espouse Blue And Orange Morality. These characters have a moral framework that is so utterly alien and foreign to human experience that we can't peg them as good or evil. They aren't a [[Chaotic Neutral]] [[The Unfettered|Unfettered]], though they may seem to act [[Cloudcuckoolander|terrifyingly randomly;]] nor are they necessarily a [[Lawful Neutral]] [[The Fettered|Fettered]], because our and their understanding of 'law' as a concept may not even be equivalent. There might be a logic behind their actions, it's just that they operate with entirely different sets of values and premises with which to draw their conclusions.
The strangest of these characters are those who espouse Blue And Orange Morality. These characters have a moral framework that is so utterly alien and foreign to human experience that we can't peg them as good or evil. They aren't a [[Chaotic Neutral]] [[The Unfettered|Unfettered]], though they may seem to act [[Cloudcuckoolander|terrifyingly randomly;]] nor are they necessarily a [[Lawful Neutral]] [[The Fettered|Fettered]], because our and their understanding of 'law' as a concept may not even be equivalent. There might be a logic behind their actions, it's just that they operate with entirely different sets of values and premises with which to draw their conclusions.
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Conversely, they may have these concepts, but apply them in vastly different ways. Such as regarding motionlessness as the epitome of evil, or viewing exploration as an element of chaos.
Conversely, they may have these concepts, but apply them in vastly different ways. Such as regarding motionlessness as the epitome of evil, or viewing exploration as an element of chaos.


Note that cases involving solely [[Poor Communication Kills|a misapprehension of facts and consequences]] do not count here no matter how alien the reasons; if, for example, a race of aliens thinks [[Immortal Life Is Cheap|killing is okay]] because its own members [[Healing Factor|respawn within a day]] with [[Death Is Cheap|no harm done]], and [[I Thought Everyone Could Do That|mistake humans as working the same way]], that doesn't mean they wouldn't balk at killing if they realized the degree of harm it causes to other creatures. In this case, they may be working by comprehensible moral standards and just gravely mistaken about the implications of their actions.
Note that cases involving solely [[Poor Communication Kills|a misapprehension of facts and consequences]] do not count here no matter how alien the reasons; if, for example, a race of aliens thinks [[Immortal Life Is Cheap|killing is okay]] because its own members [[Healing Factor|respawn within a day]] with [[Death Is Cheap|no harm done]], and [[I Thought Everyone Could Do That!|mistake humans as working the same way]], that doesn't mean they wouldn't balk at killing if they realized the degree of harm it causes to other creatures. In this case, they may be working by comprehensible moral standards and just gravely mistaken about the implications of their actions.


Likely candidates for Blue and Orange Morality include the [[Fair Folk]], who follow rules of their own making; [[Eldritch Abomination|Eldritch Abominations]] that are beyond comprehension; the more exotic [[Starfish Aliens]]; [[Robot Roll Call|AI's and robots]], [[Sliding Scale of Robot Intelligence|especially]] when [[Super Intelligence|super smart]] and [[The Spock|incapable of emotion]]. An individual human (or single members of any species whose majority is using the [[Black and Gray Morality|greyscale]] [[Black and White Morality|morality]]) who operates on this is [[The Ubermensch]] of [[Friedrich Nietzsche|Nietzschean philosophy]] (a ''human being'' who has developed their ''own'' Blue/Orange set of morals). A [[Nominal Hero]] may have this motivation as well. [[Moral Sociopathy]] overlaps strongly with this trope [[Lack of Empathy|for obvious reasons]], though this is not always the case.
Likely candidates for Blue and Orange Morality include the [[Fair Folk]], who follow rules of their own making; [[Eldritch Abomination|Eldritch Abominations]] that are beyond comprehension; the more exotic [[Starfish Aliens]]; [[Robot Roll Call|AI's and robots]], [[Sliding Scale of Robot Intelligence|especially]] when [[Super Intelligence|super smart]] and [[The Spock|incapable of emotion]]. An individual human (or single members of any species whose majority is using the [[Black and Gray Morality|greyscale]] [[Black and White Morality|morality]]) who operates on this is [[The Ubermensch]] of [[Friedrich Nietzsche|Nietzschean philosophy]] (a ''human being'' who has developed their ''own'' Blue/Orange set of morals). A [[Nominal Hero]] may have this motivation as well. [[Moral Sociopathy]] overlaps strongly with this trope [[Lack of Empathy|for obvious reasons]], though this is not always the case.


Compare [[Xenofiction]], [[Humans Are Cthulhu]], [[Humanity Is Infectious]] (all often involving this), [[Non-Malicious Monster]] (sometimes requires this), [[Above Good and Evil]], [[Affably Evil]] / [[Faux Affably Evil]] (they sometimes can come across as this), [[Even Evil Has Standards]] (when handled poorly or bizarrely), and [[Evil Cannot Comprehend Good]] (less elaborate forms that resemble this in practice). When two sides go to war and nothing will stop them except total annihilation, that's [[Guilt Free Extermination War]].
Compare [[Xenofiction]], [[Humans Are Cthulhu]], [[Humanity Is Infectious]] (all often involving this), [[Non-Malicious Monster]] (sometimes requires this), [[Above Good and Evil]], [[Affably Evil]] / [[Faux Affably Evil]] (they sometimes can come across as this), [[Even Evil Has Standards]] (when handled poorly or bizarrely), and [[Evil Cannot Comprehend Good]] (less elaborate forms that resemble this in practice). When two sides go to war and nothing will stop them except total annihilation, that's [[Guilt-Free Extermination War]].


Has nothing to do with Bucknell University, The University of Illinois, The University of Virginia, The University of Florida, Auburn University, Syracuse University, Hope College, Gettysburg College, or Boise State University (the colors of all of which are blue and orange, albeit different shades in each case). Nor the Denver Broncos, Chicago Bears, New York Knicks, New York Mets, or [[Memetic Mutation|Mango Sentinels]]. Or the City of New York, for that matter. Furthermore, do not confuse with [[Orange Blue Contrast|Blue And Orange Movies]]. Also has nothing to do with the [[Karma Meter]] in ''[[Mass Effect]]'' nor the [[Portal (Video Game)|Aperture Science Hand Held Portal Device]]. No relation to the [[Colour-Coded for Your Convenience|light scheme]] in ''[[Tron]]'' and its sequel.
Has nothing to do with Bucknell University, The University of Illinois, The University of Virginia, The University of Florida, Auburn University, Syracuse University, Hope College, Gettysburg College, or Boise State University (the colors of all of which are blue and orange, albeit different shades in each case). Nor the Denver Broncos, Chicago Bears, New York Knicks, New York Mets, or [[Memetic Mutation|Mango Sentinels]]. Or the City of New York, for that matter. Furthermore, do not confuse with [[Orange-Blue Contrast|Blue And Orange Movies]]. Also has nothing to do with the [[Karma Meter]] in ''[[Mass Effect]]'' nor the [[Portal (Video Game)|Aperture Science Hand Held Portal Device]]. No relation to the [[Colour-Coded for Your Convenience|light scheme]] in ''[[Tron]]'' and its sequel.


Whether it has anything to do with ''[[Main Page|us]]'' is left as an exercise for the reader.
Whether it has anything to do with ''[[Main Page|us]]'' is left as an exercise for the reader.
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* Guu of ''[[Jungle wa Itsumo Hale Nochi Guu|Haré+Guu]]'', essentially a [[Trickster Archetype]]. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to her actions: she's just as likely to torment Haré as rescue him from mortal danger by summoning godlike powers, all the while seeming casual and uncaring. Her inscrutable agenda makes it pretty much impossible to pinpoint her [[Character Alignment]].
* Guu of ''[[Jungle wa Itsumo Hale Nochi Guu|Haré+Guu]]'', essentially a [[Trickster Archetype]]. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to her actions: she's just as likely to torment Haré as rescue him from mortal danger by summoning godlike powers, all the while seeming casual and uncaring. Her inscrutable agenda makes it pretty much impossible to pinpoint her [[Character Alignment]].
** She loves to act like she's giving Haré an [[Aesop]], but always subverts it completely in the end.
** She loves to act like she's giving Haré an [[Aesop]], but always subverts it completely in the end.
* {{spoiler|Claire Stanfield}} from ''[[Baccano (Light Novel)|Baccano]]''. He obviously HAS a moral code that he acts by, it's just so unusual that many of the people who encounter him end up with no idea whether he's actually a good person or a really horrible one. (his [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism solipsist] worldview may have something to do with it).
* {{spoiler|Claire Stanfield}} from ''[[Baccano (Light Novel)|Baccano]]''. He obviously HAS a moral code that he acts by, it's just so unusual that many of the people who encounter him end up with no idea whether he's actually a good person or a really horrible one. (his [[wikipedia:Solipsism|solipsist]] worldview may have something to do with it).
** {{spoiler|Ronnie Suchiart}} is just as likely to incite a massacre as he is to follow a man for two-hundred years just to give him some company. The only answer he's ever given for his motivations is that he's [[Time Abyss|very old]], [[Eldritch Abomination|very powerful]], and [[It Amused Me|very bored]].
** {{spoiler|Ronnie Suchiart}} is just as likely to incite a massacre as he is to follow a man for two-hundred years just to give him some company. The only answer he's ever given for his motivations is that he's [[Time Abyss|very old]], [[Eldritch Abomination|very powerful]], and [[It Amused Me|very bored]].
* {{spoiler|Ryoko Asakura}} (an "integrated data entity" disguised as a human) in ''[[Haruhi Suzumiya (Light Novel)|Haruhi Suzumiya]]''. She honestly can't grasp why murder is wrong as long as it achieves an objective.
* {{spoiler|Ryoko Asakura}} (an "integrated data entity" disguised as a human) in ''[[Haruhi Suzumiya (Light Novel)|Haruhi Suzumiya]]''. She honestly can't grasp why murder is wrong as long as it achieves an objective.
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* In ''[[The Return (Fanfic)|The Return]]'' despite many claims of just being "simple creatures," Succubae relationships and morality is so complex it is no wonder that they view humans as bordering on [[Always Chaotic Evil]], and vice-versa.
* In ''[[The Return (Fanfic)|The Return]]'' despite many claims of just being "simple creatures," Succubae relationships and morality is so complex it is no wonder that they view humans as bordering on [[Always Chaotic Evil]], and vice-versa.
* Very prominent in the ''[[Avatar: The Last Airbender (Animation)|Avatar: The Last Airbender]]'' fanfic ''[[Embers (Fanfic)|Embers]]''; this is used to explain the more complicated beliefs which differentiate the Four Nations. For instance, the Fire Nation is marked by an extreme sense of loyalty, while the Earth Kingdom is far more based in morality; while the Water Tribes place high value on family, the Air Nomads are never raised by their parents; and so on. None of these views are depicted as definitely right or wrong, but rather as how each Nation has a society which functions very differently from the other Nations.
* Very prominent in the ''[[Avatar: The Last Airbender (Animation)|Avatar: The Last Airbender]]'' fanfic ''[[Embers (Fanfic)|Embers]]''; this is used to explain the more complicated beliefs which differentiate the Four Nations. For instance, the Fire Nation is marked by an extreme sense of loyalty, while the Earth Kingdom is far more based in morality; while the Water Tribes place high value on family, the Air Nomads are never raised by their parents; and so on. None of these views are depicted as definitely right or wrong, but rather as how each Nation has a society which functions very differently from the other Nations.
** Given an in-nation [[Shout Out]] when an opposing faction of Air Nomads show up - their robes are blue in contrast to the saffron worn by Aang as a Temple monk.
** Given an in-nation [[Shout-Out]] when an opposing faction of Air Nomads show up - their robes are blue in contrast to the saffron worn by Aang as a Temple monk.
* In ''[[Adventures of the Galaxy Rangers (Animation)|Galaxy Rangers]]'' fanfics, this sometimes shows up with Shane and Niko, as they outwardly appear human, but were raised in very different environments from Earth. Less common with Niko, as the Circle of Thought and Ariel were decent folk, albeit with different taboos and ideas as they're a race of [[Technical Pacifist]] psychics who merely wish to be left alone. It's ''much'' more prominent in Shane's case, as he was the product of a brutal [[Training From Hell]] [[Super Soldier]] program.
* In ''[[Adventures of the Galaxy Rangers (Animation)|Galaxy Rangers]]'' fanfics, this sometimes shows up with Shane and Niko, as they outwardly appear human, but were raised in very different environments from Earth. Less common with Niko, as the Circle of Thought and Ariel were decent folk, albeit with different taboos and ideas as they're a race of [[Technical Pacifist]] psychics who merely wish to be left alone. It's ''much'' more prominent in Shane's case, as he was the product of a brutal [[Training From Hell]] [[Super Soldier]] program.
* NewChaos from ''[[The Open Door (Fanfic)|The Open Door]]''. What [[Even Evil Has Standards|standards]] they appear to have, such as a nigh-[[The Fettered|Fettered]] absolute devotion to the protection of children and punishment of their abusers, is contrasted with horrifically anarcho-libertarian laws or lack thereof, near-[[The Unfettered|Unfettered]] approach to combat and a variety of what are humanly seen as atrocities. The sheer contrast in their extremes of behaviour has driven people both in the audience and [[In Universe]] to blanket label them as evil.
* NewChaos from ''[[The Open Door (Fanfic)|The Open Door]]''. What [[Even Evil Has Standards|standards]] they appear to have, such as a nigh-[[The Fettered|Fettered]] absolute devotion to the protection of children and punishment of their abusers, is contrasted with horrifically anarcho-libertarian laws or lack thereof, near-[[The Unfettered|Unfettered]] approach to combat and a variety of what are humanly seen as atrocities. The sheer contrast in their extremes of behaviour has driven people both in the audience and [[In Universe]] to blanket label them as evil.
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== Live-Action TV ==
== Live-Action TV ==
* [[Anti-Villain]] Morgaine in the ''[[Doctor Who (TV)|Doctor Who]]'' story "[[Doctor Who (TV)/Recap/S26 E1 Battlefield|Battlefield]]" thinks nothing of slaughtering people who tick her off, but {{spoiler|1=insists on paying for a round of drinks that her son ordered in. She pays for them, by the way, by ''curing the barmaid's blindness''. She also won't fight in graveyards as to not dishonor the dead. She also held a ceremony honouring said dead -- dead people on a planet she cared nothing of. They died in battle = They deserve honour.}}
* [[Anti-Villain]] Morgaine in the ''[[Doctor Who]]'' story "[[Doctor Who/Recap/S26 E1 Battlefield|Battlefield]]" thinks nothing of slaughtering people who tick her off, but {{spoiler|1=insists on paying for a round of drinks that her son ordered in. She pays for them, by the way, by ''curing the barmaid's blindness''. She also won't fight in graveyards as to not dishonor the dead. She also held a ceremony honouring said dead -- dead people on a planet she cared nothing of. They died in battle = They deserve honour.}}
** The Doctor himself sometimes borders on this, thinking almost nothing of taking his friends to dangerous places all the time.
** The Doctor himself sometimes borders on this, thinking almost nothing of taking his friends to dangerous places all the time.
** Another ''[[Doctor Who (TV)|Doctor Who]]'' example are the Sontarans. Their entire morality system is based around the glory of battle. They love war and will start one for any reason, and they see dying in battle as the most honorable possible death, thus they have no qualms about killing the enemy in battle. In fact, they will often joke and congratulate their enemies while they are doing well, including killing them all, and will greet people with such sweet nothings as "I hope one day to spill your intestines on the battlefield". But it is morally reprehensible to kill someone who isn't fit for battle while not at war with them; such killing is considered murder. This is really highlighted in "[[Doctor Who (TV)/Recap/S32 E7 A Good Man Goes to War|A Good Man Goes To War]]": one of the biggest punishments for a Sontaran is to become a field medic, because not only are you not fighting, but you're actively stopping people from being able to die a glorious death in battle.
** Another ''[[Doctor Who]]'' example are the Sontarans. Their entire morality system is based around the glory of battle. They love war and will start one for any reason, and they see dying in battle as the most honorable possible death, thus they have no qualms about killing the enemy in battle. In fact, they will often joke and congratulate their enemies while they are doing well, including killing them all, and will greet people with such sweet nothings as "I hope one day to spill your intestines on the battlefield". But it is morally reprehensible to kill someone who isn't fit for battle while not at war with them; such killing is considered murder. This is really highlighted in "[[Doctor Who/Recap/S32 E7 A Good Man Goes to War|A Good Man Goes To War]]": one of the biggest punishments for a Sontaran is to become a field medic, because not only are you not fighting, but you're actively stopping people from being able to die a glorious death in battle.
* [[Precursors|The Ancients]] of ''[[Stargate SG-1]]'' ''might'' be this trope after their ascension. Whenever we see living Ancients on ''this'' plane of existence, they are generally depicted as normal humans who were simply interested in science a lot, not the gigantic [[Jerkass|Jerkasses]] they are as ascended beings (see more on [[Neglectful Precursors]]).
* [[Precursors|The Ancients]] of ''[[Stargate SG-1]]'' ''might'' be this trope after their ascension. Whenever we see living Ancients on ''this'' plane of existence, they are generally depicted as normal humans who were simply interested in science a lot, not the gigantic [[Jerkass|Jerkasses]] they are as ascended beings (see more on [[Neglectful Precursors]]).
** [[Starfish Aliens|The Goa'uld]] are certainly this, as being taken as a host is repeatedly used as [[Nightmare Fuel]], but for the Goa'uld it is an essential and natural part of their biology. After all, would you want to spend your entire life swimming back and forth in a pond lacking opposable thumbs and sex organs?
** [[Starfish Aliens|The Goa'uld]] are certainly this, as being taken as a host is repeatedly used as [[Nightmare Fuel]], but for the Goa'uld it is an essential and natural part of their biology. After all, would you want to spend your entire life swimming back and forth in a pond lacking opposable thumbs and sex organs?
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* An early episode of ''Enterprise'' had the crew being continually attacked by a mystery ship for no apparent reason. T'Pol points out that not every species out there necessarily behaves in a way that would make sense to humans. They never find out what the aliens' motivation was, but they did successfully test their new weapons on them.
* An early episode of ''Enterprise'' had the crew being continually attacked by a mystery ship for no apparent reason. T'Pol points out that not every species out there necessarily behaves in a way that would make sense to humans. They never find out what the aliens' motivation was, but they did successfully test their new weapons on them.
* ''[[The Addams Family (TV)|The Addams Family]]'' and ''[[The Munsters]]'' live this trope, particularly the Addamses.
* ''[[The Addams Family (TV)|The Addams Family]]'' and ''[[The Munsters]]'' live this trope, particularly the Addamses.
* The Head Six and Head Baltar entities of ''[[Battlestar Galactica Reimagined (TV)|Battlestar Galactica]]''. Ron Moore says that their kind are the inspiration for stories of angels ''and'' stories of demons. It's not hard to believe.
* The Head Six and Head Baltar entities of ''[[Battlestar Galactica Reimagined|Battlestar Galactica]]''. Ron Moore says that their kind are the inspiration for stories of angels ''and'' stories of demons. It's not hard to believe.
* Witness the huge discussion on the [[Angel (TV)/Headscratchers|Headscratchers page]] for ''[[Angel (TV)|Angel]]'' over what Jasmine's hypothetical "alignment" was. Sure, she brings total peace and happiness to the world, but she eats people (but usually no more than one or two a day, far fewer than would be killed by wars and crimes her presence would prevent), and people have no choice but to love and adore her. Can any human definition of "good" or "evil" really describe her? (That was rhetorical, by the way)
* Witness the huge discussion on the [[Angel (TV)/Headscratchers|Headscratchers page]] for ''[[Angel (TV)|Angel]]'' over what Jasmine's hypothetical "alignment" was. Sure, she brings total peace and happiness to the world, but she eats people (but usually no more than one or two a day, far fewer than would be killed by wars and crimes her presence would prevent), and people have no choice but to love and adore her. Can any human definition of "good" or "evil" really describe her? (That was rhetorical, by the way)
** Present in an early episode, "Bachelor Party", with a family of Ano-Movic. Ano-Movic demons are a very peaceful race -- formerly a violent race of nomadic demons, they blended into Western Society and gave up their more gruesome traditions. On the flip side, not all of their old customs have been abandoned -- the family seen in the episode are shown discussing the wedding plans just as easily as they discuss the ritualistic eating of the former spouse's brains. While this sounds gruesome, to the Ano-Movics, it is a gesture of love -- their belief is that by eating the brains of the old spouse of their wedded-to-be prior to the wedding, the new spouse will incorporate all of the love and affection from the previous relationship into their new marriage.
** Present in an early episode, "Bachelor Party", with a family of Ano-Movic. Ano-Movic demons are a very peaceful race -- formerly a violent race of nomadic demons, they blended into Western Society and gave up their more gruesome traditions. On the flip side, not all of their old customs have been abandoned -- the family seen in the episode are shown discussing the wedding plans just as easily as they discuss the ritualistic eating of the former spouse's brains. While this sounds gruesome, to the Ano-Movics, it is a gesture of love -- their belief is that by eating the brains of the old spouse of their wedded-to-be prior to the wedding, the new spouse will incorporate all of the love and affection from the previous relationship into their new marriage.
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*** Although this is colored a bit by the fact that the Mycon truly are just outright ''insane''. They're biological terraformers produced by the Precursors, but their programming has become corrupted into a bizarre religion -- this was in the dubious ''Star Control 3'', but later [[Word of God]] confirmed that this actually was what the series creators intended.
*** Although this is colored a bit by the fact that the Mycon truly are just outright ''insane''. They're biological terraformers produced by the Precursors, but their programming has become corrupted into a bizarre religion -- this was in the dubious ''Star Control 3'', but later [[Word of God]] confirmed that this actually was what the series creators intended.
** The Thraddash are some combination of [[Blue and Orange Morality]] and [[Too Dumb to Live]]. When you meet them thay are on their ''nineteenth'' attempt at having a civilization, having nuked themselves back to the stone age eighteen times before. They revel in combat (which would make them [[Proud Warrior Race Guy|Proud Warrior Race Guys]]), but are lousy at it. They attack you without provocation, but will listen to your advice and attack much more powerful races (and be annihilated) if you suggest it. They worship a piece of Precursor garbage as a sacred artifact. And if you manage to impress them, you can convince them to start a new society, one based around imitating classic comedians like [[The Three Stooges]].
** The Thraddash are some combination of [[Blue and Orange Morality]] and [[Too Dumb to Live]]. When you meet them thay are on their ''nineteenth'' attempt at having a civilization, having nuked themselves back to the stone age eighteen times before. They revel in combat (which would make them [[Proud Warrior Race Guy|Proud Warrior Race Guys]]), but are lousy at it. They attack you without provocation, but will listen to your advice and attack much more powerful races (and be annihilated) if you suggest it. They worship a piece of Precursor garbage as a sacred artifact. And if you manage to impress them, you can convince them to start a new society, one based around imitating classic comedians like [[The Three Stooges]].
* The Qunari of ''[[Dragon Age]] Origins''. On the surface, they're just a [[Proud Warrior Race]] with a proactive magic phobia (considering the [[Linear Warriors Quadratic Wizards|way magic works]], that's actually a smart mindset), but the more you talk to Sten, the more this they start to evoke this trope.
* The Qunari of ''[[Dragon Age]] Origins''. On the surface, they're just a [[Proud Warrior Race]] with a proactive magic phobia (considering the [[Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards|way magic works]], that's actually a smart mindset), but the more you talk to Sten, the more this they start to evoke this trope.
** According to Sten (the only Qunari we interact with in the main game), your career is as much a part of you as your skin color or gender. He only mentions this when justifying his apparent misogyny towards a female PC, eventually deciding that you are not, in fact, a woman. "I don't understand. You LOOK like a woman."
** According to Sten (the only Qunari we interact with in the main game), your career is as much a part of you as your skin color or gender. He only mentions this when justifying his apparent misogyny towards a female PC, eventually deciding that you are not, in fact, a woman. "I don't understand. You LOOK like a woman."
*** The Qunari are not misogynistic so much as they believe that your gender defines what you can and can't do even if you have a strong aptitude for it. They simply don't understand the concept of a woman who fights. Basically it's case of "If it looks like a duck, quacks like duck, flies like a duck" it has to be a duck. To them the word warrior is basically synonymous with male while the word manager is synonymous with female but ironically they regard the importance of both as equal rather than viewing military prowess superior to other skills unlike the rest of Thedas. Likewise they also can't understand the chivalrous (or even humane) attitudes shown by humans; in Redcliffe Sten comments how in a Qunari society everyone, men, women and children would fight to defend their homes from an invader while humans put noncombatant females under the protection of noncombatant males.
*** The Qunari are not misogynistic so much as they believe that your gender defines what you can and can't do even if you have a strong aptitude for it. They simply don't understand the concept of a woman who fights. Basically it's case of "If it looks like a duck, quacks like duck, flies like a duck" it has to be a duck. To them the word warrior is basically synonymous with male while the word manager is synonymous with female but ironically they regard the importance of both as equal rather than viewing military prowess superior to other skills unlike the rest of Thedas. Likewise they also can't understand the chivalrous (or even humane) attitudes shown by humans; in Redcliffe Sten comments how in a Qunari society everyone, men, women and children would fight to defend their homes from an invader while humans put noncombatant females under the protection of noncombatant males.
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** Mistress Sixx is surprised at Laura's outrage at being drugged, put in bondage and forced to participate in sexual acts, since Laura had previously enjoyed participating in consentual sexual acts without bondage or drugs - not recognizing at least three differences between those cases. Apparently the author was called out on that by the readership, and was forced to make an [[Author's Saving Throw]] with Sixx apologizing for her inconsideration.
** Mistress Sixx is surprised at Laura's outrage at being drugged, put in bondage and forced to participate in sexual acts, since Laura had previously enjoyed participating in consentual sexual acts without bondage or drugs - not recognizing at least three differences between those cases. Apparently the author was called out on that by the readership, and was forced to make an [[Author's Saving Throw]] with Sixx apologizing for her inconsideration.
* Demons in ''[[Wapsi Square]]'' have a strict set of rules which they follow, but those rules don't match up with our ideas of right and wrong. They even specifically mentioned that evil is a human concept, not a demon one.
* Demons in ''[[Wapsi Square]]'' have a strict set of rules which they follow, but those rules don't match up with our ideas of right and wrong. They even specifically mentioned that evil is a human concept, not a demon one.
* A number of [[Our Monsters Are Different|"Creatures"]] in [[Dan and Mabs Furry Adventures]] value only power; if you're too weak to defend yourself, you don't really deserve to live. And since the legal system requires one to be tried by their own species, many [[Muggles|beings]] take up [[Adventure Friendly World|adventuring]] to seek revenge.
* A number of [[Our Monsters Are Different|"Creatures"]] in [[Dan and Mabs Furry Adventures]] value only power; if you're too weak to defend yourself, you don't really deserve to live. And since the legal system requires one to be tried by their own species, many [[Muggles|beings]] take up [[Adventure-Friendly World|adventuring]] to seek revenge.
* Professor Joseph Corwin in ''[[Tales Of Gnosis College]]'' shows signs of this trope. He is more than happy to lure female undergraduates into weird experiments the involve changing their state of matter or intimate contact with tentacle beasts, but he draws the line at using is technology to make duplicates of people, even when that would be handy. He’s also intensely loyal to his own subordinate.
* Professor Joseph Corwin in ''[[Tales Of Gnosis College]]'' shows signs of this trope. He is more than happy to lure female undergraduates into weird experiments the involve changing their state of matter or intimate contact with tentacle beasts, but he draws the line at using is technology to make duplicates of people, even when that would be handy. He’s also intensely loyal to his own subordinate.
* ''[[El Goonish Shive (Webcomic)|El Goonish Shive]]'' crops up here too!
* ''[[El Goonish Shive (Webcomic)|El Goonish Shive]]'' crops up here too!
** When we see the flashback of how Tedd got the transformation gun we learn a few interesting facts about Uryuom society. While it is not illegal to own a TF gun, their [http://egscomics.com/?date=2003-09-16 manufacture is prohibited] due to [http://egscomics.com/?date=2003-09-17 religious objections] to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming object-oriented programming].
** When we see the flashback of how Tedd got the transformation gun we learn a few interesting facts about Uryuom society. While it is not illegal to own a TF gun, their [http://egscomics.com/?date=2003-09-16 manufacture is prohibited] due to [http://egscomics.com/?date=2003-09-17 religious objections] to [[wikipedia:Object-oriented programming|object-oriented programming]].
** Raven's mother (sometimes called Chaos, other times called Pandora) wants to help her son out, so she begins to instigate many magical incidents, such as granting powers to unaware people leading to near-disasters when they unwittingly use them.
** Raven's mother (sometimes called Chaos, other times called Pandora) wants to help her son out, so she begins to instigate many magical incidents, such as granting powers to unaware people leading to near-disasters when they unwittingly use them.


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* Many times, differing cultures have regarded each other as having this. A particularly good (or at least obvious) example is the old stereotype of [[Inscrutable Oriental|"inscrutable" Orientals]] and [[Eagle Land|"crazy" Western devils]].
* Many times, differing cultures have regarded each other as having this. A particularly good (or at least obvious) example is the old stereotype of [[Inscrutable Oriental|"inscrutable" Orientals]] and [[Eagle Land|"crazy" Western devils]].
** Ruth Benedict's ''The Chrysanthemum and the Sword'' is an excellent account of just how incomprehensible the Americans and the Japanese were to each other during WWII: Americans thought the Japanese must be crazy for comitting mass suicide attacks and finding death preferable to surrender, while the Japanese thought Americans must be crazy for being willing to dishonor themselves by surrendering.
** Ruth Benedict's ''The Chrysanthemum and the Sword'' is an excellent account of just how incomprehensible the Americans and the Japanese were to each other during WWII: Americans thought the Japanese must be crazy for comitting mass suicide attacks and finding death preferable to surrender, while the Japanese thought Americans must be crazy for being willing to dishonor themselves by surrendering.
* In the [[Church Militant|Islamic Republic of Iran]], homosexuality is [[Moral Event Horizon|punishable by death]]. Transsexuality, however, isn't only perfectly legal, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexuality_in_Iran a sex change is even applicable for financial support by the state].
* In the [[Church Militant|Islamic Republic of Iran]], homosexuality is [[Moral Event Horizon|punishable by death]]. Transsexuality, however, isn't only perfectly legal, [[wikipedia:Transsexuality in Iran|a sex change is even applicable for financial support by the state]].
* Within contemporary normative ethics are three major types of ethical theory: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism Consequentialism] (the morality of an action is dictated by its consequences), [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deontological_ethics Deontological ethics] (the morality of an action is based on duty) and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_ethics virtue ethics] (morality is based on virtues). The morality of a given decision will vary widely between them.
* Within contemporary normative ethics are three major types of ethical theory: [[wikipedia:Consequentialism|Consequentialism]] (the morality of an action is dictated by its consequences), [[wikipedia:Deontological ethics|Deontological ethics]] (the morality of an action is based on duty) and [[wikipedia:Virtue ethics|virtue ethics]] (morality is based on virtues). The morality of a given decision will vary widely between them.
* Literature from all sorts of ancient cultures falls into this trope. Some of the stuff we take for granted in classical literature can be pretty bizarre for those unfamiliar with ancient Bronze Age customs. Far from being considered barbaric, it was probably just a description of "the status quo" back then. Advocates of more recognizably modern value systems were considered kooks.
* Literature from all sorts of ancient cultures falls into this trope. Some of the stuff we take for granted in classical literature can be pretty bizarre for those unfamiliar with ancient Bronze Age customs. Far from being considered barbaric, it was probably just a description of "the status quo" back then. Advocates of more recognizably modern value systems were considered kooks.
** Eating in public was a major taboo in ancient Greece. It was probably the inspiration for similar taboos found in various [[Speculative Fiction]] works.
** Eating in public was a major taboo in ancient Greece. It was probably the inspiration for similar taboos found in various [[Speculative Fiction]] works.
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** Watergate is the perfect example: The Russians couldn't believe Nixon, a powerful and effective national leader, was really brought down by the kind of things that were a matter of course in the USSR.
** Watergate is the perfect example: The Russians couldn't believe Nixon, a powerful and effective national leader, was really brought down by the kind of things that were a matter of course in the USSR.
*** And then they themselves were brought down by Chernobyl and the impossibility of covering it up (although they tried).
*** And then they themselves were brought down by Chernobyl and the impossibility of covering it up (although they tried).
*** Not exactly, the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl collapse of the Soviet Union] wasn't from Chernobyl alone, it was a multi-faceted situation involving many different elements. Economic collapse looms largest amongst these causes, as they took Reagan's bait and engaged in a major arms race while fighting a major war in Afghanistan, something their economy couldn't afford. Meanwhile, Gorbachev's attempt to liberalize their political system (Glasnost and Peristroika) led to increasing unrest and ethnic disputes that they simply did not have the military manpower available to shut down with force as they'd done for forty years, nor the desire as it was antithetical to the whole notion of Glasnost and Peristroika to begin with. The increasing unrest and apparent failure of Glasnost and Peristroika led to an attempted military coup, which failed. However, it paved the way for the various outlying republics to lose confidence in the central government, particularly given that the central government was resorting to heavy taxation of these provinces to pay for everything in the economic downturn. They began declaring their indepencence, and suddenly, the USSR was no more. Chernobyl, though a tremendous disaster, was not the largest element precipitating the crisis, merely [[Goddamned Bats|one of many]].
*** Not exactly, the [[wikipedia:Chernobyl|collapse of the Soviet Union]] wasn't from Chernobyl alone, it was a multi-faceted situation involving many different elements. Economic collapse looms largest amongst these causes, as they took Reagan's bait and engaged in a major arms race while fighting a major war in Afghanistan, something their economy couldn't afford. Meanwhile, Gorbachev's attempt to liberalize their political system (Glasnost and Peristroika) led to increasing unrest and ethnic disputes that they simply did not have the military manpower available to shut down with force as they'd done for forty years, nor the desire as it was antithetical to the whole notion of Glasnost and Peristroika to begin with. The increasing unrest and apparent failure of Glasnost and Peristroika led to an attempted military coup, which failed. However, it paved the way for the various outlying republics to lose confidence in the central government, particularly given that the central government was resorting to heavy taxation of these provinces to pay for everything in the economic downturn. They began declaring their indepencence, and suddenly, the USSR was no more. Chernobyl, though a tremendous disaster, was not the largest element precipitating the crisis, merely [[Goddamned Bats|one of many]].
* People with certain kinds of psychological disorders and conditions, like autism. Some of these are usually considered amoral, or lack of a recognition of morality; however there are people like this who hate things that are absolutely normal, accept things that most people disdain, and judge other people by things that are usually not associated with morality.
* People with certain kinds of psychological disorders and conditions, like autism. Some of these are usually considered amoral, or lack of a recognition of morality; however there are people like this who hate things that are absolutely normal, accept things that most people disdain, and judge other people by things that are usually not associated with morality.
* This argument is occasionally used to justify (although not necessarily ''defend'') questionable business practices--why should a corporation operate based on ethics similar to interpersonal relationships when it only exists to make money as efficiently as possible?
* This argument is occasionally used to justify (although not necessarily ''defend'') questionable business practices--why should a corporation operate based on ethics similar to interpersonal relationships when it only exists to make money as efficiently as possible?
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[[Category:Sturgeons Tropes]]
[[Category:Sturgeons Tropes]]
[[Category:Blue And Orange Morality]]
[[Category:Blue And Orange Morality]]
[[Category:Trope]]
Retrieved from "https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Blue_and_Orange_Morality"