Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Headscratchers/Season 7: Difference between revisions

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**** You're order is a bit off. Lies my Parents told me is episode 17, and Dirty Girl is 18. Which means Faith was currently unavailable and thus not Buffy's equal because she's not around. That's also the episode where Buffy gets a lot of potentials killed, before that most of if not all the potentials deaths were if not entirely unavoidable certainly not Buffy's fault. Willow raw power aside was unwilling to so much as try to get them out of a house as Anya pointed out earlier. If you refuse to use your power it's hard to call you powerful even if you are the biggest bad ass in the room. Anya's 1000 years of experience makes for a compelling case that perhaps she should have a rank we never see her earn or frankly display right to. Giles being in charge is a no brainer. It's already been mentioned that Giles has every qualification and Buffy frankly lacks a lot of them no matter how one tries to spin it. If the case is that Buffy shouldn't be in charge because she's emotional and immature as a whole that's fine. Giles wasn't wrong to suggest that showing up to Glory's ceremony with a sniper rifle and killing Dawn was the best solution. Worlds better than a Rube-Goldberg fight sequence that ultimately failed. But Buffy has been the agreed upon leader for a while and not only because nobody could make Buffy do something against her will. Again with the order of things that happened Giles and later Xander were forced to keep Spike in Season 4, well before Buffy had anything resembling affection or even appreciation for him. As for the specific charachters considering everything Faith did they were very nearly chummy when she showed up in Season 7. It wasn't UNTIL the Fratboy incident that Buffy went after Anya, contrast that to vamps that she literally waits for them to rise and slays prior to their first kill, and she's immediately forgiven after that. Willow nearly got Dawn killed functionally because she was drunk or high, take your pick. Unless your argument is that Spike's trigger is worse than being intoxicated because intoxication is a choice and a trigger is done to you Willow's sin was far worse. Oh and then Willow tried to end the world and Buffy shipped her off to England and then met her (or tried to, accidental spells aside the motive was there) to meet her at the airport. Even if you factor in Xander and Dawn's mishaps as humorous it's obvious that the "get out of jail free card" is universal. If you say your sorry and you really mean it (or in Spike's case in Seasons 4 and 5 simply some combination of useful, horny and harmless) Buffy doesn't kill you.
**** You're order is a bit off. Lies my Parents told me is episode 17, and Dirty Girl is 18. Which means Faith was currently unavailable and thus not Buffy's equal because she's not around. That's also the episode where Buffy gets a lot of potentials killed, before that most of if not all the potentials deaths were if not entirely unavoidable certainly not Buffy's fault. Willow raw power aside was unwilling to so much as try to get them out of a house as Anya pointed out earlier. If you refuse to use your power it's hard to call you powerful even if you are the biggest bad ass in the room. Anya's 1000 years of experience makes for a compelling case that perhaps she should have a rank we never see her earn or frankly display right to. Giles being in charge is a no brainer. It's already been mentioned that Giles has every qualification and Buffy frankly lacks a lot of them no matter how one tries to spin it. If the case is that Buffy shouldn't be in charge because she's emotional and immature as a whole that's fine. Giles wasn't wrong to suggest that showing up to Glory's ceremony with a sniper rifle and killing Dawn was the best solution. Worlds better than a Rube-Goldberg fight sequence that ultimately failed. But Buffy has been the agreed upon leader for a while and not only because nobody could make Buffy do something against her will. Again with the order of things that happened Giles and later Xander were forced to keep Spike in Season 4, well before Buffy had anything resembling affection or even appreciation for him. As for the specific charachters considering everything Faith did they were very nearly chummy when she showed up in Season 7. It wasn't UNTIL the Fratboy incident that Buffy went after Anya, contrast that to vamps that she literally waits for them to rise and slays prior to their first kill, and she's immediately forgiven after that. Willow nearly got Dawn killed functionally because she was drunk or high, take your pick. Unless your argument is that Spike's trigger is worse than being intoxicated because intoxication is a choice and a trigger is done to you Willow's sin was far worse. Oh and then Willow tried to end the world and Buffy shipped her off to England and then met her (or tried to, accidental spells aside the motive was there) to meet her at the airport. Even if you factor in Xander and Dawn's mishaps as humorous it's obvious that the "get out of jail free card" is universal. If you say your sorry and you really mean it (or in Spike's case in Seasons 4 and 5 simply some combination of useful, horny and harmless) Buffy doesn't kill you.
***** You're getting off point. The issue isn't who's done what badly, and it is obvious that Buffy's love interests were held to different standards than anyone else (and not just Spike. Look how long it took her to go after Angel, when he went bad), it's that Buffy possessed a blind spot concerning Spike. Again, he was a threat, whether that was willingly so or not is irrelevant. He was a threat, who was under the control of the force that was trying to extinguish the Slayer line. Again, Buffy refused to acknowledge said danger, and refused to listen to those around her when they tried to point out that fact. Again, that blindness led to her allowing said threat to run around unchained, with free access to the very people the First Evil was trying to kill. Again, Giles attempted to remove the trigger, and Buffy refused to allow him to do so, simply because it would cause Spike a little discomfort (And said discomfort only existed because he resisted in the first place), again Giles saw this blindness Buffy possessed, the unwillingness to realize the threat her precious Spike posed, and her refusal to cooperate when they tried to remove the trigger, and he acted the only way he could: To remove the threat, without Buffy's permission, as it was clear she would not see it. The advantages Spike brought to the table were nebulous at best at that point, as it was clear that Spike was to be a big player in the First's plans. Something they could not allow to happen. Giles took the right course of action, the necessary and pragmatic decision: The neutralization of a potential threat, when Buffy and the others were unwilling to. That Giles clearly recognized the severity of the threat Spike posed with his trigger intact speaks volumes about just how serious that danger was, as he had previously, as early as season 5, recognized the asset Spike could be when the chips were down. Now, here he was attempting to kill that same asset, because he recognized that things had changed, and said asset now posed an immense danger, even if Buffy was not willing to.
***** You're getting off point. The issue isn't who's done what badly, and it is obvious that Buffy's love interests were held to different standards than anyone else (and not just Spike. Look how long it took her to go after Angel, when he went bad), it's that Buffy possessed a blind spot concerning Spike. Again, he was a threat, whether that was willingly so or not is irrelevant. He was a threat, who was under the control of the force that was trying to extinguish the Slayer line. Again, Buffy refused to acknowledge said danger, and refused to listen to those around her when they tried to point out that fact. Again, that blindness led to her allowing said threat to run around unchained, with free access to the very people the First Evil was trying to kill. Again, Giles attempted to remove the trigger, and Buffy refused to allow him to do so, simply because it would cause Spike a little discomfort (And said discomfort only existed because he resisted in the first place), again Giles saw this blindness Buffy possessed, the unwillingness to realize the threat her precious Spike posed, and her refusal to cooperate when they tried to remove the trigger, and he acted the only way he could: To remove the threat, without Buffy's permission, as it was clear she would not see it. The advantages Spike brought to the table were nebulous at best at that point, as it was clear that Spike was to be a big player in the First's plans. Something they could not allow to happen. Giles took the right course of action, the necessary and pragmatic decision: The neutralization of a potential threat, when Buffy and the others were unwilling to. That Giles clearly recognized the severity of the threat Spike posed with his trigger intact speaks volumes about just how serious that danger was, as he had previously, as early as season 5, recognized the asset Spike could be when the chips were down. Now, here he was attempting to kill that same asset, because he recognized that things had changed, and said asset now posed an immense danger, even if Buffy was not willing to.
** This was one of the few times the show succeeded in creating a situation where both sides were legitimately right ''and'' legitimately wrong simultaneously. (Joss often tries to set such dilemnas up but he's not always successful at executing them.) Leaving aside questions of personal vengeance and retribution as the emotional self-indulgences that they are, Wood and Giles have an entirely valid point; Spike can be potentially used by the First as a murder weapon to kill them in their sleep, therefore he should be sent away or killed. But Buffy likewise has an entirely valid point; so long as they are acknowledging her leadership then what to do with Spike is ''her'' decision, not theirs, and if she decides that the benefits of having another superpowered fighter are desperately necessary enough to outweigh the risk that he might potentially be turned by the First again, then that's the command decision. And if someone tries to go behind her back re: that decision then they are undermining her authority and completely fucking up the group dynamic during a time period when unity is critical. If they think she's making a horrible command decision then they should openly confront her and move for a legitimate change of leadership - which they do indeed try later in the season - not do a secret mutiny conspiracy thing.



== Potentials are useless ==
== Potentials are useless ==
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