Magic Versus Science: Difference between revisions

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Can result in (or is deliberately designed to justify) [[Medieval Stasis]]; no technological advances are made, either because beyond a certain point because mages accomplish what is needed, or simply because science doesn't work the way it does in the real world. If only a few people are mages, then there's a clear caste system. [[The Magocracy]] clearly wouldn't want competition. This doesn't mean no science goes on in these settings though; the scientific method may be applied not to creating technology, but to study a [[Fantastic Science]].

Compare [[Magitek]], and [[Post-Modern Magik]]. Contrast [[Magic From Technology]], [[Un-Equal Rites]] and [[Doing in the Wizard]]. See also [[Science Fantasy]], [[Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane]], and [[Clarke's Third Law]].

Compare [[Magitek]], and [[Post-Modern Magik]]. Contrast [[Magic From Technology]], [[Un-Equal Rites]] and [[Doing In the Wizard]]. See also [[Science Fantasy]], [[Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane]], and [[Clarke's Third Law]].

If you were looking for a trope where scientists and wizards actually get into a brawl, see [[The Magic Versus Technology War]].

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** On the other hand, Mad Science also works, even though normal science wouldn't. The Discworld itself [[Theory of Narrative Causality|runs on plot and cliche]], you see, so electricity usually doesn't do anything useful unless you get it from a lightning storm.

* ''[[The Sword of Shannara Trilogy]]'' revolves around this trope. Various groups of people see either science or magic as the cause of the downfall of society. They then fight and destroy each other.

* In [[The ~~Nights~~ Dawn Trilogy]], the possessors have reality warping abilities summarily called the 'reality dysfunction', which form a de facto magic, if only because human scientists have not the slightest hint of how it works. Coming near to a possessor, or a possessor deliberately extending the reach of his or her powers causes electronics to fail. This is actually very inconvenient for them, as it makes travel in spaceships very difficult, and because it can be used to systematically detect them on planets with sufficient infrastructure.

* In [[The Night's Dawn Trilogy]], the possessors have reality warping abilities summarily called the 'reality dysfunction', which form a de facto magic, if only because human scientists have not the slightest hint of how it works. Coming near to a possessor, or a possessor deliberately extending the reach of his or her powers causes electronics to fail. This is actually very inconvenient for them, as it makes travel in spaceships very difficult, and because it can be used to systematically detect them on planets with sufficient infrastructure.

* ''[[Rivers of London]]'' takes the Magic is EMP route burning out anything electrical. Notably this ''does'' include human brains, just electrical devices are more sensitive and burn out before your brain does. DC Grant goes through several cell phones before learning to take the battery out before performing magic to prevent them blowing up.

* In Adrian Tchaikovsky's ''[[Shadows of the Apt]]'' series the magically focused Inapt races can't even use a key in a lock or fire a crossbow while the technologically adept Apt races are incapable of perceiving magic. they can perceive it's effects but insist that it's all just trickery. Also some of the Apt races, particularly the Beetle and Ant-kinden were enslaved by some of the Inapt, namely the Moths who now hate the races who overthrew them.

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== [[Tabletop Games]] ==

* ''[[Dungeons ~~and~~ Dragons]]''

* ''[[Dungeons & Dragons]]''

** [[Eberron]] is a magic meets industrial revolution setting, with standard heroes and monsters in a world with magic trains and hover-ships. However it points out that since magic needs wizards and the like and can't be mass produced, a lot of magic items are quite expensive.

** In module ''EX2 The Land Beyond The Magic Mirror'' the PC's could find a "den of technology" filled with scientific items. If a PC took any of them, each one would eventually destroy a magic item the PC was carrying.

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** The latest edition of the [[Star Wars]] RPG imposes a similar penalty: every time a [[Player Character|PC]] installs a cybernetic component onto his/her body, the character takes a penalty to Using the Force—although dismemberment does ''nothing''.

* ''[[Rifts]]'' both plays this straight and subverts it, you will be killed on sight if you use magic in many areas, but some of the mages create "Techno-Wizard" items where a semi-technological device is imbued with magic.

* The ''[[Warhammer ~~40000~~]]'' Universe is very dependent on this one. The battle against the Warp and Chaos (which is for all intents and purposes the "magic" of the setting) is one of the most central plot points. Faith is also used, but ridiculously large calibur guns and energy weapons also help.

* The ''[[Warhammer 40,000]]'' Universe is very dependent on this one. The battle against the Warp and Chaos (which is for all intents and purposes the "magic" of the setting) is one of the most central plot points. Faith is also used, but ridiculously large calibur guns and energy weapons also help.

** Of course Chaos can and does corrupt technology by [[Haunted Technology|stuffing demons into it]]. There's all sorts of scientists fallen to Chaos too since new ideas generally open someone up to the influence of the Warp and who wouldn't be slightly curious to see how it all works. The most known faction of those is the Dark Mechanicus who use more forbidden technologies like [[A Is]] and bio-tech to make very powerful potent weapons.

** The idea also comes to light when one considers the Tau, who stick entirely to technology and do their best to ignore the presence of sorcery and faith as active forces in the galaxy. The result, among other things, is that their ships move at a snail's pace compared to everyone else, since powerful sorcery is necessary to travel the Warp.

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* Both averted and played straight in ''[[Albion]]''. Albionian Magic and Terran science are merely two aspects of the greater whole, that are in continuous conflict with each other. The only differences are that Terran technology uses energy from matter and is based on well definable principles, while magic energy from one's spirit, and is governed by more abstract and undefinable laws. That said, It's actually possible for someone to cast a spell using nuclear energy, {{spoiler|and incidentally, the player's ultimate goal involves just this}}.

* ''[[Total Annihilation Kingdoms]]''. The original game has as its backstory the fact that magic-using [[Precursors]] wrecked the world in a magical war, so magic is forbidden. Eventually a Mage Emperor arises, has four children and later disappears: two of his children heavily restrict magic in their kingdoms, the other two embrace it. The trope is played more straight in the sequel ''The Iron Plague'', when a fifth kingdom—founded by the Emperor after he vanished—invades, rejecting magic utterly and using [[Steampunk]] technology.

* Mixing spells and technology in ''[[Magical Diary]]'' is hugely taboo. Doing it after being warned or even asking too many questions will get you expelled... and ''[[Laser-Guided Amnesia|brainwiped]]'' to boot. We don't yet know what the reason is behind this.

* Mixing spells and technology in ''[[Magical Diary: Horse Hall]]'' is hugely taboo. Doing it after being warned or even asking too many questions will get you expelled... and ''[[Laser-Guided Amnesia|brainwiped]]'' to boot. We don't yet know what the reason is behind this.

** Also, it's pointed out that studying how magic works and experimenting to improve your spells ''is'' science, and also perfectly acceptable. Just don't use the word science or the wizards get nervous.

* [[Final Fantasy]] games sometimes invoke this trope. Villains often see themselves as championing one side or the other (or the combination in Magitek), but the good guys are usually willing to use both science ''and'' magic, with a healthy respect for both.

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* In ''[[The Dreamland Chronicles]]'', this is personified in the arguments between Daniel, the protagonist's optimistic and open-minded brother, and Nicole, a "by-the-books" scientist. While she's not nearly as bad a [[Straw Vulcan|strawman]] as she could have been, her approach to SCIENCE! (including a rather un-scientific tendency to reject new ideas out of hand and reliance on machinery) mixed with her attitude towards anyone who might disagree with her on it makes it pretty clear whose side we're supposed to be on.

** Although Daniel and Alex were doing a pretty good job for a while of [[Cannot Spit It Out|sounding quite stupid]] whenever they tried to explain Daniel's theories.

* In the ''[[Unicorn Jelly]]'' universe, it's a clear case of the "opposing ideologies" version; the Alchemist and Wiccan factions each have their own delineated areas of influence and (supposedly) agendas, and each is forbidden to dabble in the other's bailiwick. This state of affairs is the result of a [[Government Conspiracy]] involving the leaders of both groups to keep the rank and file of the nominally "scientific" Alchemists ignorant that their "research" is mostly pointless busywork and the nominally "mystical" Wiccans from realizing that their "magic" is really just [[Doing in the Wizard|varied applications of physics and chemistry]].

* In the ''[[Unicorn Jelly]]'' universe, it's a clear case of the "opposing ideologies" version; the Alchemist and Wiccan factions each have their own delineated areas of influence and (supposedly) agendas, and each is forbidden to dabble in the other's bailiwick. This state of affairs is the result of a [[Government Conspiracy]] involving the leaders of both groups to keep the rank and file of the nominally "scientific" Alchemists ignorant that their "research" is mostly pointless busywork and the nominally "mystical" Wiccans from realizing that their "magic" is really just [[Doing In the Wizard|varied applications of physics and chemistry]].

* ''[[Girl Genius]]'' subverted this in their version of Cinderella. The Fairy Godmother launches into a speech expecting the titular [[Mad Scientist]] to go along with the trope, but Cinderella simply [http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20081205 upgrades her magic wand and announces]:

{{quote|'''Cinderella:''' "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!"

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** This is evidently going to be a major theme in the [[Sequel Series]], ''[[The Legend of Korra]]''.

* [[Ralph Bakshi]]'s ''[[Wizards]]'' tells of a war between magic-armed Good fantasy races and tech-armed Evil mutants. It appears to be a straight rendition of this trope, together with a hefty dose of [[Science Is Bad]], {{spoiler|until the chief Good wizard shoots the Evil leader with a gun at the end: a subversion that Lampshades the notion that '' only the morality of the people wielding them'' makes either science or magic Good or Evil.}}

* This is a recurring theme in the trilogy of [[crossover]]s between ''[[The Fairly ~~Odd Parents~~]]'' and ''[[The Adventures of Jimmy Neutron: Boy Genius|The Adventures of Jimmy Neutron]]''. Jimmy, despite seeing Cosmo, Wanda, Fairy World as a whole, and several magical feats preformed, still flat out refuses to believe magic has anything to do with it. In the comics published in ''Nickelodeon Magazine'', he accepts magic, but argues with Timmy over which is the best.

* This is a recurring theme in the trilogy of [[crossover]]s between ''[[The Fairly OddParents]]'' and ''[[The Adventures of Jimmy Neutron: Boy Genius|The Adventures of Jimmy Neutron]]''. Jimmy, despite seeing Cosmo, Wanda, Fairy World as a whole, and several magical feats preformed, still flat out refuses to believe magic has anything to do with it. In the comics published in ''Nickelodeon Magazine'', he accepts magic, but argues with Timmy over which is the best.

* ''[[The Nightmare Before Christmas]]'' has this, sort of. Note that Santa can (presumingly) do magic, while Jack's way of going at Christmas is more scientific.

** Not to mention that in the [[DVD Commentary]], [[Tim Burton]] says that there's no magic in [[Halloweentown]] -- [[Fridge Logic|despite the fact that there's two resident witches]].

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[[Category:Speculative Fiction Tropes]]

[[Category:~~Magic Versus Science~~]]

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