Nay Theist: Difference between revisions

''"But all them things exist," said Nanny Ogg.

''"That's no call to go around believing in them. It only encourages 'em."''

 

The Nay Theist is ''not'' an atheist or agnostic—he is well aware of the existence of the Gods (or [[God]]), and freely admits it; he just refuses to worship them, or to "believe" in them in any strong Spiritual sense beyond merely acknowledging the fact of their existence. Perhaps he has some personal grudge against the Gods for something they did (or [[Religious Russian Roulette|didn't do]]); perhaps he refuses to accept the Gods' judgment because [[Jerkass Gods|they don't measure up]] to ''his'' moral standards; perhaps he's just the independent type by nature; or perhaps he simply thinks there is [[Always a Bigger Fish]], making the search for an "all powerful" creator a pointless venture.

 

{{examples}}

* In ''[[Higurashi no Naku Koro ni]]'', Rika has a Nay Theist attitude towards {{spoiler|Hanyuu}} despite being {{spoiler|her priestess}}. Shutting a god up by force-feeding her spicy food (by proxy, it's a bit complicated) is not the most reverent act ever.

** And {{spoiler|Takano}} believes in God... if just to challenge him.

* Most of the SSS in ''[[Angel Beats!]]'', though most prominently their leader, Yuri. The entire point of their organization is to rebel against God in any way they can, because they all had such horrible experiences during their lives. {{spoiler|Ultimately, whether or not God exists is left up in the air, and the SSS get over their issues and move on with their (after)lives.}}

 

* John Constantine of ''[[Hellblazer]]'', knows first-hand that God and Satan and all the rest exist. He thinks they are utter sods and hates their ineffable little games to the point that he takes extra effort when he screws up the plans of devils and angels, so they wind up all the more humiliated.

* Pretty much the same can be said of Jesse Custer of ''[[Preacher (Comic Book)]]'', except that he knows first hand that the Devil is dead and that he's being hunted by the guy that killed him.

* Eppy Thatcher, of ''[[Grendel]]'', actually has "God hates me" as his [[Catch Phrase]]. And devotes all of his (crazy) effort to messing with the Church.

 

* Douglas Sangnoir of ''[[Drunkard's Walk]]''. At the start of his extradimensional exile, he is ''very'' aware that gods are real -- he ''works'' for an [[Physical God|incarnate weather goddess]]. But he considers virtually all of them other than her to be abusive [[Jerkass]]es who ought to have better things to do than screw with mortals to get their jollies. Over the course of his travels he moderates his opinion somewhat, and eventually meets several deities he comes to call actual friends, but as far as he's concerned they're the exception, not the rule.

* Asuka Soryuu Langley in the novel-length finale to ''[[Neon Exodus Evangelion]]'', at a moment of anger and despair when the world seems like it's going to hell, [[Rage Against the Heavens|shouts to the sky]] that God is useless and she doesn't need him -- this knowing that Heaven, Hell, angels and demons are all real. (She later meets God face-to-face and He allows as how she may be right, but hopes she considers Him to be a friend anyway.)

 

* ''[[Hoodlum]]'':

{{quote|'''Bumpy Johnson''': The good Lord and I have an arrangement. I don't go into his house. He doesn't come into mine.}}

* in ''[[Jason and the Argonauts]]'', Jason says he does not "believe" in the gods, but it isn't clear what this means. Once he actually visits Mt. Olympus, he says that until then he had always assumed [[Puny Earthlings|a mere mortal]] [[The Gods Must Be Lazy|could never really expect to receive any help from the gods]].

 

* Both the witches (see quote above) and wizards of the [[Discworld]] take this attitude to the gods. In their case, it's simply because they would feel silly worshiping beings that they meet and converse with on a regular basis. ''"Contrary to popular opinion, seeing is not believing; it's where belief stops, because it isn't needed any more."''

** Complicating things is the fact that the gods of the Disc exist, but [[Gods Need Prayer Badly|only gain power]] when people believe in them.

** Samuel Vimes also has this opinion about deities. When he gets married he insists it not be in a church because while he knows there are gods, he doesn't much like them or see what business it is of theirs that he is getting hitched. He does, however, go for the great hall of the Unseen University, which has a churchy feel to it. It isn't required for Gods to show up on such occasions, but they should feel at home if they do.

{{quote|"This doesn't change anything, you know!" said Simony. "Don't think you can get round me by existing!"}}

*** Earlier, Om comments that he likes Simony. Simony disbelieves very specifically in Om, which is closer to belief than the lip-service most of his "worshipers" pay him.

*** Quite a few people were of the opinion that Nuggan was evil by that point, {{spoiler|which is quite probably why he was dead}}. In a previous novel, when one of his followers was brought face to face with him, the follower physically attacked him, screaming that he had never been allowed to eat chocolate or any number of other foods thanks to Nuggan's insane commandments.

** And Constable Dorfl, the resident Nay Theist Golem. Who has the useful extra trait of being lightning resistant and thus able to blaspheme more or less at will.

* In ''[[Warrior Cats]]'', Mothwing starts out believing that StarClan doesn't exist; that "prophecies" are only things medicine cats knew in their subconscious that they just happened to remember in dreams. Eventually she does come to accept that StarClan exists, but she still doesn't truly "believe" in them. And she's supposed to be the religious leader of her Clan...

 

* [[Xena: Warrior Princess]] is a perfect example. She knows only too well that the gods exist, but she despises them for their arrogance toward humanity. Far from worshiping them, her approach to them varies from deliberately ignoring them to actively working towards their destruction.

** [[Hercules: The Legendary Journeys|Hercules]] is very similar, though the situation is more complicated since he's, you know, related to them.

* In ''[[Game of Thrones]]'' Cersei says her father believes in the gods, he just doesn't like them.

 

* [[XTC]]'s "[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk41Gbjljfo Dear God]" sort of combines this with [[God Is Evil]]. The singer goes from mocking the very idea of God's existence (''Did you make mankind after we made you''?) to railing against Him for allowing evil and suffering to flourish (''You're always letting us humans down'').

** The song actually starts out merely requesting God's help with human problems such as famine and riots; given what the rest of the song's about, the lack of response is a [[Foregone Conclusion]].

* [[Slayer]], with "[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIYTGpmtLGY&feature=related Disciple]". The song criticizes how terrible life and humanity is, and that the only conclusion is that God doesn't care. It becomes pretty evident when they start shouting GOD HATES US ALL.

 

* In some versions of Buddhism, Gods are acknowledged to exist, but that they're part of the same cycle of reincarnation as humans and animals, and they're a distinctly secondary concern to the enlightenment taught by Buddha.

** This could also qualify as [[No Such Thing as Space Jesus]] as the difference between humans and Gods is simply one of degree, not kind, and theoretically both can move either way up and down the karmic ladder.

* While there are various opinions on the matter, much of [[The Bible]] appears to confirm, rather than deny, the existence of Non-Christian Gods, only stating that worshiping them is contradictory to worshiping Yehovah.

 

* A few ''[[Dungeons & Dragons]]'' settings feature this.

** [[Eberron]] has a few variations of this. One notable example is the Blood of Vol, who believe that the gods cursed mortals with death.

** They aren't created by solely human emotion; they're created by the emotion on ''all'' sentient life. And they are omnipotent within their own planes of existence; and pretty damn close to it in the materium. The reason why they don't just annihilate it with a lazy gesture and why certain mortals can hide their thoughts from them is because they don't ''care'' enough to try hard.

 

* The Charr in ''[[Guild Wars]]''. After some nasty experiences with false gods set up by their shaman caste, they repudiate all gods, real or fake, and declare themselves masters of their own fate. They know that the Five Gods followed by humans are real, but they consider worshipping such untrustworthy beings to be just another example of human weakness. ''"Do not waste time praying. Your gods are not listening, and we have none."''

** The Asura and the Charr from ''[[Guild Wars]]'' (this is clearer in the lore that's been released for the upcoming sequel, but it is present in the current game). Basically, the Asura believe that they the gods are subject to a force called the Eternal Alchemy (as-yet vaguely defined), while the Charr refuse to worship the gods. Seeing as there are cases of [[Sufficiently Advanced Aliens|beings passing themselves off as gods]], including the Religion Of Evil that the Charr worshipped until the players [[Did You Just Punch Out Cthulhu?|beat up their "gods"]], and the gods of Tyria do not seem too inclined to punish unbelievers, these are not unreasonable ideologies.

** [[The Dark Id|Drakengard!]]

 

* Cleric in ''[[8-Bit Theater|Eight Bit Theater]]'' doesn't worship a god because "It's a competitive market and I can't afford to play favorites."

** He also states that not believing in gods actually makes it ''easier'' to be friends with them since "they know I'm not just trying to suck up to them".

* ''[[Yet Another Fantasy Gamer Comic]]'': The Drow and the Orcs both virtually abandoned their respective gods in the wake of a brief, but devastating war between them. The Drow rejected Lolth due to her role in leading the Drow into a war they had little chance of winning and which decimated their population. The Orcs turned away from Gruumish after he refused to intervene on their behalf, even after Lolth herself joined the fray and (probably most damning) ignored Glon's prayers and allowed {{spoiler|Goria }}to die from a Drow assassination attempt meant for Maura.

 

* In the [[SCP Foundation]] universe, the Global Occult Coalition has this stance on God. They view it as their job to kill God if ever given the chance or the means. Considering that they live in a [[Crapsack World]] plagued by every kind of [[Eldritch Abomination]] imaginable, this is somewhat understandable.

 

* In the ''[[Justice League]]'' episode "The Terror Beyond", Hawkgirl describes how her home planet Thanagar worshiped the [[Eldritch Abomination]] [[Captain Ersatz|Icthultu]] centuries ago, and stopped when they decided that [[Human Sacrifice]]s were too much. Hawkgirl's [[Crowning Moment of Awesome]] comes when she actually meets Icthultu face to face, and [[Did You Just Flip Off Cthulhu?|expresses nothing but contempt]] for it. [[Did You Just Punch Out Cthulhu?|Then she lobotomizes it.]]

 

* Many theists get this confused with atheism and will often accuse genuine atheists (especially ones who are ex-theists) of being Nay Theists.

** Some theists supposedly get this impression from statements like like "[o]f course God supports murdering babies, he does it himself every time someone miscarries!" or "your god is a tyrant!" What is actually happening is that the atheist is, "for the sake of argument," granting the theist's premises and trying to draw a reasonable, if sometimes sarcastic, conclusion about [[Fridge Horror|what those premises would imply if followed to their logical conclusion]]. Atheists often don't bother starting with "supposing for the sake of argument God does exist" because it's implied and assumed to be obvious.

 

{{reflist}}

[[Category:Religion Tropes]]

[[Category:Speculative Fiction Tropes]]