Point Defenseless: Difference between revisions

This may be in part because many fictional point defense system still use WWII-style manually operated, visually targeted cannons instead of the automatic systems that replaced them (even when the story ostensibly has a [[Schizo-Tech|higher]] tech level than modern day), but even the most futuristic AI-controlled [[Frickin' Laser Beams|laser-firing]] point defenses can fall victim to this trope. Attackers may be forced to jink and dodge, or they may be able to cruise in straight and level while bullets whizz past them, but even if the point defenses manage to take out some of the attackers, it will never be able to stop them all.

 

 

See also [[A-Team Firing]] and [[Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy]]. If the point defense guns blaze away at where the hero just was, that's a [[Hero-Tracking Failure]].

 

== Anime and Manga ==

* Generally speaking, point defenses in the various ''[[Gundam]]'' series do little but provide [[More Dakka|visual]] [[Every Bullet Is a Tracer|spectacle]], but every so often they actually manage to accomplish something useful.

* While the Neuroi in ''[[Strike Witches]]'' had defense arsenals after the manner of [[Real Life]] aircraft (with [[Energy Weapons]], no less), they could seldom overcome the heroines' dodge-fu, and the stuff that did hit was harmless ([[Plot Armor|except when dramatically appropriate]]).

* Amaterasu's point defense system in ''[[Starship Operators]]'' seems to unable to hit the laser module. Though it might be that PDS can't turn fast enough, since the module is moving quite fast and sliding on the side of the ship, not moving towards it.

* The Phalanx CIWS in one of the Arleigh Burke class ships in [[Sentou Yousei Yukikaze]] could not take down the JAM fighter heading straight for it. Justified in that the JAM fighter was flying lower than the gun's maximum depression point. The second JAM fighter ''seems'' to have been brought down by another cruiser, but chances are it was Yukikaze's kill.

* During Ivanovic's invasion in ''[[Dance in the Vampire Bund]]'', the Phalanx CIWS guns on the island's perimeter are unable to stop incoming cruise missiles [[Justified Trope|because they were sabotaged]]. Subverted when the saboteur then turns them on Bund-controlled helicopter gunships.

* Generally averted on ''[[Babylon 5]]'': Many races' ships use fast-tracking "Interceptor" weapons systems, which lay down high volumes of very accurate defensive fire to neutralize incoming enemy weapons fire. Several episodes show what happens when [[Space Fighter]] pilots get too close to these systems without the support of larger warships.

** However, when there is a big enough disparity in technology or firepower, such as during the Earth-Minbari War, the weaker side will often find themselves getting [[Curb Stomp Battle|steam rolled]] without their defensive gunnery having much effect.

** A first season episode with Galactica's Viper wing launching a raid on a Cylon asteroid base subverted this trope. Even when using a [[Kansas City Shuffle]] to fake out the Cylons' Raider defenders, and Wild Weasel tactics to suppress the Cylon anti-<s>air</s>space defenses, the Viper pilots still get swatted like helpless flies due to the [[More Dakka|sheer volume of enemy fire]]. While the Redshirts are dying, however, {{spoiler|Lee manages to pull off an [[Airstrike Impossible]] by flying through a tunnel to get inside the base's defenses.}} In Galactica terms, this would be called "Pulling a Starbuck".

* Zig-zagged in ''[[Andromeda]]'', the titular ship has both Point-Defense Lasers and remote drones but enemy missiles still manage to hit it often.

* Anti-missile systems in ''[[BattleTech]]'' have aspects of this. Depending on the ruleset, they either run out of ammo almost instantly or are actually forbidden from being 100% effective—ie, if the attacker succeeded on his to-hit roll, at least one missile ''will'' hit the target, regardless of how good its point defense is.

* Surprisingly an [[Averted Trope]] in ''[[Mekton]]''. A well-designed point-defense system can shred virtually any Mekton in only a few hits. For this reason, point defense is very often left out of warship designs...

* The point defense in ''[[GURPS]]'': Spaceships is not terribly effective, very dangerous when combined with the massive damage missiles can do. A later supplement in the series added the Missile Shield design switch to let beam weapons hit as many incoming objects per second as they can fire shots.

 

== Video Games ==

* [[Gratuitous Space Battles]] has this as one aspect. Fighters/Bombers can easily destroy even biggest ship since to BFG cannons can't lock and fire fast enough. On the other hand, if fleet has even decent Point Defence systems, fighters are having hard time. All part of [[Tactical Rock-Paper-Scissors]].

** Well, not so much RPS and much more appropriate defensive allocation. Any cruiser can stock more than enough anti-fighter/bomber point defense to shred even the largest cloud of them, but it'll cost them points that could be used for much heavier firepower, possibly leaving them open to capital ships. It must be pointed out that no quantity of fighters alone will be able to destroy a fleet that is prepared for them.

* The original ''[[Free Space]]'' played this very straight, with even the heaviest Destroyers packing no more than a few easily-dodgeable "blob turrets" and puny missile launchers. In response, the sequel [[Averted Trope|loaded every capital ship down with exploding flak and hitscan Anti-Fighter Beams]]. For the most part this was an improvement, but it also gave birth to the Aeolus-Class Cruiser, a [[Demonic Spider]] so tough it ''never'' makes an un-[[nerf]]ed appearance at any point in the campaign. The turret AI was also made a bit more intelligent: it will now attempt to shoot down incoming bombs, and even prioritize them over nearby enemy fighters.

** Some fan-made mods take it even further: The Procyon Insurgency ups the fire rate on the blob turrets to the point where they're practically beam gatlings, making them ''extremely'' dangerous.

** ''Ace Combat X: Skies of Deception'' includes "high-performance" AAA that is able to intercept your bombs and missiles in one mission (two, actually... [[Remixed Level|sort of]]). This is so significant for the series that the mission briefing and [[Mission Control]] specifically point out the aversion.

** In ''Joint Assault'' {{spoiler|Sulejmani's Varcolac}} has a rear-facing gatling that shoots missiles aimed at his six out of the air.

* Point defense guns in ''The [[Sigma Star Saga]]'' fire at a 45-degree angle that can't be altered.

* ''[[Sword of the Stars]]'' features point defense guns. Ballistics are optimized to shoot down down drones and mines, whereas Laser Point Defenses are best against torpedoes and missiles. High-tech Phasers are more effective and can kill multiple targets in one sweep, but are a late-game tech that is rarely available. ''Argos Naval Yard'' introduced Interceptor Missiles, which are even better at nailing drones, mines and torpedoes but cannot hit missiles. Take note, though, that the necessary research option is only randomly available and the [[Random Number God]] may not like you. Any weapon ''can'' be used for point defense in a pinch, even [[Kinetic Weapons Are Just Better|Mass Drivers]] and [[Wave Motion Gun|Heavy Combat Lasers]], but the faster turret tracking of dedicated PD weapons is preferred. Furthermore, ship design firing arcs affect the usefulness of PD - Tarka in particular are very bad at nailing munitions coming in from above or below the plane of combat.

* In ''[[Super Smash Bros Brawl]]'', The Subspace Gunship has enough auto-turrets to literally fill the sky with projectiles.... yet they can't hit the broad side of a barn door. The destruction of the Halberd was implied to be a deliberate action on part of the heroes; once the smaller ships are released, the Gunship's turrets are suddenly slightly less accurate than your average Imperial Stormtrooper. Even Olimar's ship (shown later as barely capable of keeping up with the other ships) has little trouble avoiding the enemy fire.

* In ''[[Infinite Space]]'', AA lasers avert this in that they can and do shred fighters, but they're just not as useful as having a fighter complement of your own since the game prevents you from moving if you're under attack from fighters. One instance where this is best averted is in your first fight with Oisin, where he shoots tracker mines that keep your ship from moving and just blow up your fighters, whereas using your AA lasers finishes the fight in a few seconds.

* In ''[[EVE Online]]'', larger ships tend to cart around larger weapons. Makes sense, yes? Larger weapon turrets unfortunately track more slowly than smaller ones. This results in battleships that can slug it out with another battleship, but can't manage to pick off the swarms of frigates that will attack because its anti-battleship cannons track too slowly. This can be fixed by having some ships in the fleet outfitted with smaller weapons specifically to deal with the smaller ships, functioning as roving point-defense ships. Often, however, the battleships will simply load up on multiple flights or [[Attack Drone|drones]] to deal with smaller annoyances.

** Even then, there's still the fact that big ships take longer to lock on to targets than small ships. The best defense is to have some smaller ships in your fleet. Any fleet commander worth his salt will ensure this.

** Kamikazes were the ultimate recognition that it was impossible to accurately aim a bomb or torpedo under fire from US ships. Turning the aircraft itself into the weapon meant it had to be hard-killed to stop it, and consequently upped the percentage of hits.

*** The main reason that the Kamikaze strategy was deemed a failure was because of the Japanese air force's humanity; they were unwilling to commit more forces to a (literal) [[Suicide Mission]] than absolutely necessary, and squadrons typically sent in one or two planes at a time. Unfortunately for the pilots, this meant that their target ships and escorts had a much easier time picking out a target, so while the ''percentage'' of successful strikes went up, the total number of strikes dropped dramatically.

** That said, any German ''[[Gratuitous German|Jagdflieger]]'' who wanted to live a long life always avoided attacking the American bomber formations from ''behind''. Doing so not only reduced the closing speed considerably, but also allowed the bomber crews to present the largest volume of defensive fire. One report of a bomber formation being attacked by Me-262 Schwalbe jet fighters had the planes being helplessly torn apart by the fast moving interceptors, until one hapless German pilot made the mistake of flying at them from behind... he flew into so much defensive heavy machine gun fire that his plane ''[[There Is No Kill Like Overkill|disintegrated.]]''

 

{{reflist}}

[[Category:Weapons and Wielding Tropes]]