Recursive Precursors: Difference between revisions

Content added Content deleted
(Rescuing 1 sources and tagging 0 as dead. #IABot (v2.0beta9))
(added example, BSG link, copyedits)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{trope}}
{{trope}}
{{quote|''{{smallcaps|[[The Precursors|The Protheans]] [[The Reveal|were not the first]]. They did not create the Citadel. They did not forge the [[Lost Technology|Mass]] [[Portal Network|Relays]]. They merely found them, the legacy of [[Eldritch Abomination|my kind]].}}''|{{spoiler|'''Sovereign'''}}, ''[[Mass Effect]]''}}
{{quote|''{{smallcaps|[[The Precursors|The Protheans]] [[The Reveal|were not the first]]. They did not create the Citadel. They did not forge the [[Lost Technology|Mass]] [[Portal Network|Relays]]. They merely found them, the legacy of [[Eldritch Abomination|my kind]].}}''
|{{spoiler|'''Sovereign'''}}, ''[[Mass Effect]]''}}


[[The Precursors]] are a staple of a great many [[Sci Fi]] and [[Fantasy]] settings. While [[The Precursors|Precursors]] come in many different varieties, the defining aspect of [[The Precursors]] is that they existed in the time before a setting's contemporary civilization.
[[The Precursors]] are a staple of a great many [[Sci Fi]] and [[Fantasy]] settings. While [[The Precursors|Precursors]] come in many different varieties, the defining aspect of [[The Precursors]] is that they existed in the time before a setting's contemporary civilization.
Line 6: Line 7:
'''Recursive Precursors''' occur when the concept of [[The Precursors|A Precursor]] is [[Exactly What It Says on the Tin|applied recursively]]; such beings served a similar role to [[The Precursors]] as they do to contemporary civilizations. The odds are surprisingly high that [[The Precursors]] to [[The Precursors]] had even had ''another'' race that served as their own [[The Precursors|Precursors]], and so on, forming a long line of ancient civilizations faster than you can say [[Memetic Mutation|Yo Dawg...]]
'''Recursive Precursors''' occur when the concept of [[The Precursors|A Precursor]] is [[Exactly What It Says on the Tin|applied recursively]]; such beings served a similar role to [[The Precursors]] as they do to contemporary civilizations. The odds are surprisingly high that [[The Precursors]] to [[The Precursors]] had even had ''another'' race that served as their own [[The Precursors|Precursors]], and so on, forming a long line of ancient civilizations faster than you can say [[Memetic Mutation|Yo Dawg...]]


Of course, having a long series [[The Precursors|Precursor]] races carries some [[Fridge Horror|Disturbing Implications]]. Beyond the fact that [[The Precursors]] existed in the time before the setting's present civilizations, another important aspect of [[The Precursors]] is that they are no longer around, due to [[Precursor Killers]], being [[Sealed Evil in a Can|Sealed]] [[Sealed Badass in a Can|In A Can]] [[Sealed Good in a Can|Of Some Sort]], [[Ascended to A Higher Plane of Existence|Ascending]] to some sort of higher reality, dying out for mundane reasons, and so on. While the last two options are certainly a possibility, when dealing with large number of '''Recursive Precursors''', there's generally a not so pleasant reason for all of them not being around, which has some odds of being [[Abusive Precursors|One Of Their Own]].
Of course, having a long series [[The Precursors|Precursor]] races carries some [[Fridge Horror|Disturbing Implications]]. Beyond the fact that [[The Precursors]] existed in the time before the setting's present civilizations, another important aspect of [[The Precursors]] is that they are no longer around, due to [[Precursor Killers]], being [[Sealed Evil in a Can|Sealed]] [[Sealed Badass in a Can|In A Can]] [[Sealed Good in a Can|Of Some Sort]], [[Ascended to A Higher Plane of Existence|Ascending]] to some sort of higher reality, dying out for mundane reasons, and so on. While the last two options are certainly a possibility, when dealing with large number of Recursive Precursors, there's generally a not so pleasant reason for all of them not being around, which has some odds of being [[Abusive Precursors|One Of Their Own]].


Naturally, this is a [[Sub-Trope]] of [[The Precursors]]. When [[Creating Life]] is involved, this trope is highly compatible with [[Recursive Creators]], but is otherwise not related to other "Recursive Tropes" such as [[Recursive Reality]] and [[Recursive Fanfiction]].
Naturally, this is a [[Sub-Trope]] of [[The Precursors]]. When [[Creating Life]] is involved, this trope is highly compatible with [[Recursive Creators]], but is otherwise not related to other "Recursive Tropes" such as [[Recursive Reality]] and [[Recursive Fanfiction]].


{{examples}}
{{examples}}

== [[Anime]] and [[Manga]] ==
== [[Anime]] and [[Manga]] ==
* In ''[[Gall Force]]: Eternal Story'', the {{spoiler|Solnoids}} are the precursors of {{spoiler|humanity}}; in ''[[Gall Force]]: Stardust War'' it's also revealed that the {{spoiler|Solnoids}} also have precursors. Finally, in ''[[Gall Force]]: New Era'', it's revealed that {{spoiler|due to a [[Stable Time Loop]], all the races in the story are each other's precursors}}.
* In ''[[Gall Force]]: Eternal Story'', the {{spoiler|Solnoids}} are the precursors of {{spoiler|humanity}}; in ''[[Gall Force]]: Stardust War'' it's also revealed that the {{spoiler|Solnoids}} also have precursors. Finally, in ''[[Gall Force]]: New Era'', it's revealed that {{spoiler|due to a [[Stable Time Loop]], all the races in the story are each other's precursors}}.

== [[Fan Works]] ==
* Across the various universes that can be reached by magical gates in ''[[Desperately Seeking Ranma]]'' there are acknowledged to have been several generations of Precursors to Precursors to Precursors. The civilizations which engaged in the war that spawned the weaponized automated time machine which causes so much trouble in the story were one such; [[Sailor Moon|the Silence Glaive]] is known to be an artifact from an even earlier generation.


== [[Film]] ==
== [[Film]] ==

* In the ''[[Star Wars Expanded Universe]]'', there are multiple races of [[Precursors]], starting with the [[Sufficiently Advanced Aliens|Celestials]], who created the hyperdrive triangle which makes galactic civilization possible. After them came the [[Abusive Precursors|Rakata]], who built a massive [[The Empire|Empire]], are the reason Tatooine is a desert, and left behind things such as [[Knights of the Old Republic|The Star Forge]].
* In the ''[[Star Wars Expanded Universe]]'', there are multiple races of [[Precursors]], starting with the [[Sufficiently Advanced Aliens|Celestials]], who created the hyperdrive triangle which makes galactic civilization possible. After them came the [[Abusive Precursors|Rakata]], who built a massive [[The Empire|Empire]], are the reason Tatooine is a desert, and left behind things such as [[Knights of the Old Republic|The Star Forge]].


== [[Literature]] ==
== [[Literature]] ==

* In [[Carl Sagan]]'s novel ''[[Contact (Literature)|Contact]]'', when the humans make [[First Contact]] the [[Sufficiently Advanced Aliens]] who sent them the blueprints for the device used to access the setting's [[Portal Network]], they reveal that they were not the original creators of said [[Portal Network]]. It is also revealed that whatever being(s) did create the [[Portal Network]] had ''their own [[Precursor]](s) {{spoiler|the creator(s) of the universe-who may be [[God]]}}- left a message in the form of {{spoiler|the numerical sequence of [[Pi]].}}
* In [[Carl Sagan]]'s novel ''[[Contact (Literature)|Contact]]'', when the humans make [[First Contact]] the [[Sufficiently Advanced Aliens]] who sent them the blueprints for the device used to access the setting's [[Portal Network]], they reveal that they were not the original creators of said [[Portal Network]]. It is also revealed that whatever being(s) did create the [[Portal Network]] had ''their own [[Precursor]](s) {{spoiler|the creator(s) of the universe-who may be [[God]]}}- left a message in the form of {{spoiler|the numerical sequence of [[Pi]].}}
* [[David Brin]]'s ''[[Uplift]]'' series. The original [[Precursors]], the Progenitors, existed a billion years ago. They uplifted non-sapient races into intelligent beings. The races they created themselves uplifted more species, and the process has continued to the present day.
* [[David Brin]]'s ''[[Uplift]]'' series. The original [[Precursors]], the Progenitors, existed a billion years ago. They uplifted non-sapient races into intelligent beings. The races they created themselves uplifted more species, and the process has continued to the present day.
Line 27: Line 28:
* In ''[[Planet of Adventure]]'', the humans of Tschai are broken down into groups based on which alien species they are associated with. Each group regards their masters as the "real" precursors, although an outsider can tell that this is ultimately not true.
* In ''[[Planet of Adventure]]'', the humans of Tschai are broken down into groups based on which alien species they are associated with. Each group regards their masters as the "real" precursors, although an outsider can tell that this is ultimately not true.


== [[Live Action Television]] ==
== [[Live-Action TV]] ==


* ''[[Babylon 5]]'': Lorien and the rest of his kind were this to the other [[The Precursors|First Ones]], like the Vorlons and the Shadows.
* ''[[Babylon 5]]'': Lorien and the rest of his kind were this to the other [[The Precursors|First Ones]], like the Vorlons and the Shadows.
* ''[[Battlestar Galactica]]'': The People of Kobol were [[Precursors]] to the {{spoiler|People of Earth}} and the 12 Colonies, but there was presumably no one before them {{spoiler|unless you count whatever "It" is that doesn't like being called "God" and the Head People.}}
* ''[[Battlestar Galactica (2004 TV series)|Battlestar Galactica]]'': The People of Kobol were [[Precursors]] to the {{spoiler|People of Earth}} and the 12 Colonies, but there was presumably no one before them {{spoiler|unless you count whatever "It" is that doesn't like being called "God" and the Head People.}}
* In ''[[Doctor Who]]'', we have [[Sufficiently Advanced Aliens|the Eternals]], some of which were apparently the seldom mentioned [[Ancient Astronauts|gods of Gallifrey]]; [[Precursors]] to the Time Lords who are themselves [[Depending on the Writer|(sometimes)]] cited as the reason for there being so many races of [[Human Aliens]], [[Rubber Forehead Aliens]], and [[Humanoid Aliens]] in the [[Whoniverse]].
* In ''[[Doctor Who]]'', we have [[Sufficiently Advanced Aliens|the Eternals]], some of which were apparently the seldom mentioned [[Ancient Astronauts|gods of Gallifrey]]; [[Precursors]] to the Time Lords who are themselves [[Depending on the Writer|(sometimes)]] cited as the reason for there being so many races of [[Human Aliens]], [[Rubber Forehead Aliens]], and [[Humanoid Aliens]] in the [[Whoniverse]].
* In ''[[Red Dwarf]]'' it is speculated that all life in the universe originated on Earth, with humans acting as [[The Precursors]] to countless other races, who in turn acted as Recursive Precursors to even more sentient creatures.
* In ''[[Red Dwarf]]'' it is speculated that all life in the universe originated on Earth, with humans acting as [[The Precursors]] to countless other races, who in turn acted as Recursive Precursors to even more sentient creatures.
Line 40: Line 39:
* In [[Greek Mythology]] the first major figures are Gaia and Uranus, whose children were the Titans, many monsters, and the Gold race of men who died out by not reproducing. Then Cronos, the leader of the Titans, castrated Uranus and overthrew him, then Cronos' kids overthrew him (yeah, they've kind of got a children killing their parents theme here). Also Zeus created the Silver race of men, but they were too warlike and he had to destroy them, so Prometheus made the Bronze race who were our ancestors.
* In [[Greek Mythology]] the first major figures are Gaia and Uranus, whose children were the Titans, many monsters, and the Gold race of men who died out by not reproducing. Then Cronos, the leader of the Titans, castrated Uranus and overthrew him, then Cronos' kids overthrew him (yeah, they've kind of got a children killing their parents theme here). Also Zeus created the Silver race of men, but they were too warlike and he had to destroy them, so Prometheus made the Bronze race who were our ancestors.
* [[Norse Mythology]] is kind of similar, with Odin and his brothers killing the primeval giant Ymir, making the world out of his body, and instituting the rule of the Aesir.
* [[Norse Mythology]] is kind of similar, with Odin and his brothers killing the primeval giant Ymir, making the world out of his body, and instituting the rule of the Aesir.



== [[Video Games]] ==
== [[Video Games]] ==

* [[The Precursors]] of the contemporary object of worship--"[[The Maker]]"—in the ''[[Dragon Age]]'' series were the seven [[Old Gods]] of Tevinter. Their [[The Precursors|Precursors]] were the nine Elven gods ("Creators"), and ''their'' precursors were the [[Names to Run Away From Really Fast|Forgotten Ones]].
* [[The Precursors]] of the contemporary object of worship--"[[The Maker]]"—in the ''[[Dragon Age]]'' series were the seven [[Old Gods]] of Tevinter. Their [[The Precursors|Precursors]] were the nine Elven gods ("Creators"), and ''their'' precursors were the [[Names to Run Away From Really Fast|Forgotten Ones]].
* In ''[[Homeworld]]'', the anchient Hiigarans left their warp core to be discovered by the Kushans 3000 years later. But the Anchient Hiigarans never built the core, they found it. It was made by a still older race known only as the Precursors, who, according to legend, are said to have originated from beyond the galaxy.
* In ''[[Homeworld]]'', the ancient Hiigarans left their warp core to be discovered by the Kushans 3000 years later. But the Ancient Hiigarans never built the core, they found it. It was made by a still older race known only as the Precursors, who, according to legend, are said to have originated from beyond the galaxy.
* The ''[[Mass Effect]]'' universe has a bunch of these, one of which–a [[Eldritch Abomination|Reaper]] called {{spoiler|[[Big Bad|Sovereign]]}}–provides the page quotes. Of course, due to the [[Law of Conservation of Detail]], only two of these races–the [[Time Abyss|billion or so]] year old [[Deus Est Machina|mechanical]] [[Eldritch Abomination|Reapers]] and the 50,000 year old [[Benevolent Precursors|Protheans]], respectively the first and last in the line of Recursive Precursors–are relevant to the plot.
* The ''[[Mass Effect]]'' universe has a bunch of these, one of which–a [[Eldritch Abomination|Reaper]] called {{spoiler|[[Big Bad|Sovereign]]}}–provides the page quotes. Of course, due to the [[Law of Conservation of Detail]], only two of these races–the [[Time Abyss|billion or so]] year old [[Deus Est Machina|mechanical]] [[Eldritch Abomination|Reapers]] and the 50,000 year old [[Benevolent Precursors|Protheans]], respectively the first and last in the line of Recursive Precursors–are relevant to the plot.
** The third game reveals {{spoiler|that the Protheans weren't as benevolent as originally thought, having united the Galaxy by expansionism and imperialism, with their belief that the strongest race should lead the Galaxy. If the Protheans lost, they would freely serve any race who managed to beat them. No-one did.}}
** The third game reveals {{spoiler|that the Protheans weren't as benevolent as originally thought, having united the Galaxy by expansionism and imperialism, with their belief that the strongest race should lead the Galaxy. If the Protheans lost, they would freely serve any race who managed to beat them. No-one did.}}
Line 56: Line 53:


== [[Tabletop Games]] ==
== [[Tabletop Games]] ==

* In ''[[Warhammer 40,000]]'', [[Space Elves|Eldar]] are a borderline example of [[The Precursors|a Precursor Race]], in which case their creators, the Old Ones, would be Recursive Precursors as well, alongside the [[Abusive Precursors|Necrontyr/Necrons]], and the [[Eldritch Abomination|C'tan Star Gods.]]
* In ''[[Warhammer 40,000]]'', [[Space Elves|Eldar]] are a borderline example of [[The Precursors|a Precursor Race]], in which case their creators, the Old Ones, would be Recursive Precursors as well, alongside the [[Abusive Precursors|Necrontyr/Necrons]], and the [[Eldritch Abomination|C'tan Star Gods.]]
* [[Forgotten Realms]] elves dominated Faerun before they torn both continent and their civilizations apart in Crown Wars, which left them weakened and gradually displaced by human expansion, all the while Dwarven and Giant kingdoms still fought each other. But the Elves in turn took the world from Dragons' claws. That's where we switch from merely mythical era to the [[Time Abyss]] of [http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Creator_race Creator Races] about whom little is known: Dragons [https://web.archive.org/web/20130531132751/http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd%2Fdrrl%2F20071107a fought giants] after knocking birdlike Aearee out of Toril's sky... Aearee in turn spread when [[Frogs and Toads|Batrachi]] got themselves extinct, before ''their'' time there were [[Lizard Folk|Sarrukh]] and [[Fair Folk|Fey]], and so on. And before that was "[http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15988&whichpage=24#385780 Time of the Rauth]"—prehistorical era when something was going on too, but ''what'' is completely lost by now.
* [[Forgotten Realms]] elves dominated Faerun before they torn both continent and their civilizations apart in Crown Wars, which left them weakened and gradually displaced by human expansion, all the while Dwarven and Giant kingdoms still fought each other. But the Elves in turn took the world from Dragons' claws. That's where we switch from merely mythical era to the [[Time Abyss]] of [http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Creator_race Creator Races] about whom little is known: Dragons [https://web.archive.org/web/20130531132751/http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd%2Fdrrl%2F20071107a fought giants] after knocking birdlike Aearee out of Toril's sky... Aearee in turn spread when [[Frogs and Toads|Batrachi]] got themselves extinct, before ''their'' time there were [[Lizard Folk|Sarrukh]] and [[Fair Folk|Fey]], and so on. And before that was "[http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15988&whichpage=24#385780 Time of the Rauth]"—prehistorical era when something was going on too, but ''what'' is completely lost by now.
* [[Eberron]] has a long history of being ruled by demons, then dragons, then giants, then goblinoids (in Khorvaire), then finally the common races. Some of them are still around to some extent, from the [[Neglectful Precursors|Dragons of Argonessen]] to the [[Sealed Evil in a Can|Demon Wastes]] to whatever is happening in [[Dug Too Deep|the depths of Khyber]].
* [[Eberron]] has a long history of being ruled by demons, then dragons, then giants, then goblinoids (in Khorvaire), then finally the common races. Some of them are still around to some extent, from the [[Neglectful Precursors|Dragons of Argonessen]] to the [[Sealed Evil in a Can|Demon Wastes]] to whatever is happening in [[Dug Too Deep|the depths of Khyber]].
* [[Traveller]] Gurps ''Alien Races 3'' discusses this as an optional alternative for lore about The Ancients. However the normal canon does not discuss this much.
* The ''Gurps [[Traveller]]'' supplement ''Alien Races 3'' discusses this as an optional alternative for lore about The Ancients. However the normal canon does not discuss this much.


{{reflist}}
{{reflist}}