Redwall/YMMV: Difference between revisions

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* [[Accidental Innuendo]]

** In 'The Long Patrol': Arven to Pasque,

{{quote|"D'you see that sword? Did you know that it has the power to make pretty hare maidens happy?"}}

** The very same book also had this comment, after Log-a-Log shot an arrow into Skaup's paw. There's nothing weird about it, except the comment was "ribald." Look up the word ribald. ''Now'' read this comment and you'll find it to be strange...

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** {{spoiler|Captain Plugg Firetail}}, the only interesting villain from ''Triss'' who wasn't a [[Dirty Coward|complete coward]] and [[A Father to His Men|didn't treat his crew like crap]]. All of them were openly upset about his death and even cried over it.

* [[Alternative Character Interpretation]]: So, was Veil [[Evil All Along]], or was he [[Then Let Me Be Evil|driven to evil]] as a result of a [[Self-Fulfilling Prophecy]] and the self-righteous prejudice of the Abbeydwellers, only to rise above his circumstances to make a [[Heroic Sacrifice]]?

* [[Angst? What Angst?]]:

** One season old babes get in fights ''[[Child Soldiers|and kill]] other beasts''. Young teenagers watch close friends die, sometimes in very horrible ways. ''Salamandastron'' is a particularly fun case: Samkim stumbles upon a dead Brother Hal, then is accused of murdering him, and just days later sees several shrews and Spriggat partially eaten by a giant snake. On the Western Shore, a surly teenager is almost eaten alive by reptiles after seeing that her adoptive father is about to be attacked by a military force that vastly outmatches him. To the north, a young otter and a Dibbun are attacked by crows who'd quite like to eat them alive, and is so vastly outnumbered that the next charge will doom him. Back at the Abbey, everyone is dying of the plague. ''No [[Angst]]!''

** Characters tend to cheer up instantly. In ''Loamhedge'', when {{spoiler|Martha learns to walk}}, she is sad because {{spoiler|Bragoon and Saro have risked their lives for no reason.}} When told she would not have managed if they had been there, she replies: "Oh yes. What a silly creature I am." That said, the way that line is acted in the unabridged, full cast audio book, it came across more as her still being upset but accepting someone ''trying'' to make her feel better by saying that.

** One of the most jarring examples is in ''Taggerung'' when the Deyna/Tagg's mother and sister are helping to organize a feast and contest very soon after the murder and disappearance of their dearest loved ones.

*** Subverted later on though. They try to get past their disappearance, but Deyna's mother ends up breaking down and crying, and Mhera wasn't doing much better.

** {{spoiler|Dauncey's death}} in ''Rakkety Tamm'' and {{spoiler|Asio's death}} in ''Eulalia!'' segway immediately into what's for lunch that day. {{spoiler|Asio's}} is especially jarring.

** Might be a case of [[Deliberate Values Dissonance]]: keep in mind that the death rate in Mossflower is much, much higher than in 21st-century Western [[Real World]] societies, so they get used to it quickly, and while they don't seem to have a God as such they're a lot more certain of an afterlife than many people here are.

* [[Ambiguously Gay]]: See [[Ho Yay]].

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** Felldoh. On one hand, he took the [[Leeroy Jenkins]] route and gradually went from your everyday smart protagonist to a virtually emotionless [[Sociopathic Hero]] who didn't care how many had to die in order to stop Badrang. But on the other hand, he's badass, courageous, and had the balls to {{spoiler|attack Badrang ''by himself'' and humiliate him in front of his entire army by whipping him like a slave}}. And unlike Martin, Felldoh didn't waste his time dealing with a bunch of [[Wacky Wayside Tribe]]s. Killing [[The Mole|Druwp]] certainly helped in his favors as well.

** Horty is either a hilarious [[Butt Monkey]] [[Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass|who has his occasional badass moments]], or he's a [[Wangst|whiny]], [[The Scrappy|annoying]] hare.

* [[Broken Aesop]]:

** Dear god, the ending of ''Outcast''. Bryony spends the entire book insisting that Veil is not pure evil, and then when he gives his life to save her, she goes back to the Abbey and says that everyone was right, she was wrong, and the world is better off without Veil... and then they make her the Abbess?

** Part 3 of ''Loamhedge'' is just as bad. It gives us two broken aesops. The first is that being a [[Handicapped Badass]] is useless since you can earn the gift of walking by {{spoiler|growing a pair of balls and overcoming your "lack of willpower"}}. The second is that you shouldn't give a damn about two characters who venture across the country and try to cure you of your paralysis, {{spoiler|even if their quest turns out to be ''pointless'' due to the first broken aesop and they end up sacrificing themselves ''for reasons that could've easily been prevented''}}.

** It must be nice to be a woodlander in the later books. Basically, as long as they don't intentionally kill any of the "goodbeasts", (vermin are fine, as they would have eventually "tortured, bullied, and/or murdered" some "peace loving" creature somewhere) they can do absolutely anything they want. This includes lying, cheating, and stealing. The biggest example would probably be Yoofus Lightpaw in ''Rakkety Tam'', who steals any number of important items, but is never given more than a slap on the wrist and a good natured head-shaking, and is beloved by all the characters. Didn't this series used to be about a religious order of mice who were renowned for offering aid to anyone, even predators?

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* [[Complete Monster]]: [[Complete Monster/Redwall|Now with its own page.]] The series has [[Up to Eleven|THAT MANY.]]

* [[Crowning Moment of Heartwarming]]: Everything involving Blaggut.

* [[Does This Remind You of Anything?]]: It's called '''Red'''wall. Everyone who lives there works together, without monetary reward, for the good of the community as a whole. Everyone is said to be equal, nobody is more important than anyone else, and everyone eats together. On the other hand, the villains and mooks are violent, dirty, uneducated and amoral at best, working for pay and/or the rewards of battle... gee, would you look at that.

* [[Ending Fatigue]]: ''The Legend of Luke'''s climax came at the end of Part 2, making the five remaining chapters a bit hard to finish.

** ''Taggerung'' could've ended in multiple areas, especially when {{spoiler|Deyna returned to Redwall safe and sound}}. It doesn't.

* [[Ensemble Darkhorse]]:

** In the earlier books when the supporting villains (e.g. Redtooth and Cheesethief from ''Redwall'') got character development, many of them ended up popular with fans.

** After ''The Sable Quean'', Zwilt the Shade may well fit in this trope.

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** Constance is rather popular in the TV series. Just look at all those comments on [[YouTube]] implying her as a [[Memetic Badass]].

* [[Fashion Victim Villain]]: Ublaz embodies this trope.

* [[Freud Was Right]]: The swords-and-roses motifs which recur throughout the series. Also, the scene in ''Doomwyte'' where a very large blind snake is trapped in a tunnel.

* [[Ho Yay]]: So much that it has [[Redwall/Ho Yay|its own page.]]

* [[Jerkass Woobie]]: Veil is a horrible child even before he starts on the attempted murder, but given the circumstances it's hard to blame him.

* [[Jumping the Shark]]:

** Some fans think the series has gone downhill, others think it's still good.

** It seems likely the target audience merely changed to a group a few years younger. This would explain why there's a good number of people who call themselves "former Redwall fans who still like the older books".

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* [[Kick the Dog]]: Many villains do it a few times per book, but even good guys aren't immune from time to time.

* [[Magnificent Bastard]]: Rasconza.

* [[Mary Sue]]:

** [[God Mode Sue|Tiria]] of ''High Rhulain'', plus [[Purity Sue|the Tabura and Salixia]] in ''Eulalia!''. Could be argued that just about every main character is one to a greater or lesser degree, mostly due to the [[Instant Expert|improbable speed]] with which the swordbearers learn to use the Sword of Martin.

** Not just main characters. Almost by definition, every goodbeast worth their name is a [[Purity Sue]]. Exceptions can be counted on one paw.

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* [[Periphery Demographic]]: During the prime of the series, a significant percentage of its fans were high school and college age, where the intended demographic was much younger.

* [[Replacement Scrappy]]: Gruven replaces {{spoiler|Sawney Rath}} as the [[Big Bad]] in ''Taggerung''. [[Big Bad Wannabe|He did a horrible job]].

* [[Rescued ~~From~~ the Scrappy Heap]]: See the Fleetscut section below to see how he saved himself.

* [[Rescued from the Scrappy Heap]]: See the Fleetscut section below to see how he saved himself.

** Horty zigzagged this trope constantly. Everytime he got out the heap, he threw himself back in with his whining. But by the end of ''Loamhedge'', he finally gets (and ''stays'') out of the heap when {{spoiler|he and Bragoon take on several of Kharanjul's horde [[Back-to-Back Badasses|back to back]]}}.

* [[The Scrappy]]: Mostly residing in ''Triss.'' Scarum and Prince Bladd ''bathe'' in this trope.

** Veil Sixclaw was an in-universe example, [[Jerkass|for very good reasons]]. Even after he {{spoiler|[[Redemption Equals Death|sacrificed himself to save Bryony]]}}, many Redwallers still believed that wasn't enough to make up for all his heinous crimes (although many readers would disagree).

** Fleetscut was leaning towards becoming one with his constant whining about his hunger and being nothing but [[The Load]] to Jukka's tribe. He [[Rescued ~~From~~ the Scrappy Heap|saved himself]] when he gave a well-deserved [["The Reason You Suck" Speech]] to Jukka, and from that point on he only got ''better''.

** Fleetscut was leaning towards becoming one with his constant whining about his hunger and being nothing but [[The Load]] to Jukka's tribe. He [[Rescued from the Scrappy Heap|saved himself]] when he gave a well-deserved [["The Reason You Suck" Speech]] to Jukka, and from that point on he only got ''better''.

** Gruven. ''[[Big Bad Wannabe|That]]'' ''[[Smug Snake|is]]'' ''[[General Failure|all]]''.

** Jeg. You know that annoying kid you've ran into that you just wanna spank really hard, but can't because he or she will go whining to his or her parents? Picture that same kid as a smelly rat who likes to whack animals with a stick, and you've got Jeg.

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** Inverted in ''The Legend of Luke''. It is ''because'' of the [[Wacky Wayside Tribe]] subplots that the novel didn't become extremely short and/or boring.

* [[Ugly Cute]]: Many fans [[Misaimed Fandom|prefer the vermin characters]]. Somewhat inevitable when your ugly, wicked villains [http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/files//web/sites/wordpress-mu-2.6.1/wp-content/blogs.dir/416/files//2008/11/cute-rat.jpg look] [http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/006/cache/red-fox_679_600x450.jpg like] [http://cute-n-tiny.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cute-stoat4-400x300.jpg this.]

* [[Unfortunate Implications]]:

** For starters, the use of [[Exclusively Evil]] and [[You No Take Candle]]. Then there's a character who overcomes ''being confined to a wheelchair'' and blames it on her ''lack of willpower''. This was semi-justified by the fact that this was actually a serious psychosomatic illness (not helped by the fact that she was carried on her grandmother's back for an impossibly long time) where the root problem was eventually removed. It's still phrased in a somewhat unfortunate way...

** Also, the treatment of many foxes as [[Roma]], and of course not one of them can be trusted.

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[[Category:~~Redwall~~]]

[[Category:YMMV]]

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[[Category:{{TOPLEVELPAGE}}]]