Batman: Arkham City/Headscratchers: Difference between revisions

** I don't think you get it. Strange is certainly a [[Card-Carrying Villain]] but given Strange's prowess as a psychologist, saying something like this is a break in character so big it borders on being a plot hole.

*** You remember the Scarecrow sections in Asylum? They weren't just cool set pieces—they illustrated just how ''tenuous'' Batman's grip on sanity is. He dresses up in a rubber bat suit to fight crime. Not exactly Mr. Mental Health. The most interesting Batman stories have always portrayed him as a man on the edge, constantly honing his iron will to keep from going as crazy as his nemeses. True to form, it seems like ''everyone'' in this game is conspiring against Batman to get him to snap, and forcing him to kill is treated as the trigger because of his rejection of murder as a solution. It's the ultimate compromise of his morality, and proves he's no better than the people he tries to stop. Ra's and Talia want him to kill so he'll join them in their crusade. Strange wants Batman to kill so Batman will recognize his superior intellect and acknowledge his way is the right way. The Joker wants him to kill to break his psyche so he'll go nuts and join the Joker in insanity. Even the very idea of Gotham turned into a city-sized prison and its destiny as the site of Protocol Ten is a corruption and mockery of everything Batman stands for. But in the end, despite all the stressors of immortal fascists, being poisoned with TITAN and slowly dying, seeing the love of his life held at gunpoint (twice!), Batman manages to reject everyone's designs and machinations for him, and never gives in or sacrifices his commitment to the principles of law and order, even when the legal forces of order (i.e. Hugo Strange, as an appointee of Mayor Sharp) do. ''That's'' what makes Batman right. Not that he can physically beat up Hugo Strange.

* So, Batman {{spoiler|takes his share of the antidote and debates to himself whether or not he should give it to Joker. Aaand, what about, you know, the citizens of Gotham? He doesn't bother analyzing it or anything, just ponders about the moral implications before Joker makes him drop it}}. Makes you really question the [[Lawful Stupid|priorities of the man]].

** How's he supposed to analyze it? He has no lab with him, and while it's clearly pretty good at isolating substances present at the scene of a crime, identifying the exact elements of a newly-discovered cure for a relatively rare disease would probably be beyond even Detective Mode's limits. Plus, the guy's been run-ragged and slowly dying for nearly ten hours straight and still has the question of how to deal with and whether to save his dying arch-nemesis to address right there right then; we can surely allow him a moment to get his bearings and briefly ponder the implications.

** He does still have the sample that's spilled on the floor, though; it might not be enough to cure the Joker but it's surely enough to extrapolate more from. He's also got another sample circulating in his system at that very moment.

** He also has Mr. Freeze on his side now. All Batman has to do is get Freeze the proper ingredients and he can whip up a new batch on the spot.

*** Not necessarily. Remember that Freeze already identified the compound required to cure Batman, but he couldn't synthesise it himself despite all his technology. Batman recognises the chemical structure of the hormone as the Lazarus compound and then sets out to get a sample of it. If all the samples are gone, that also presumably removes Freeze's ability to make the cure.

*** Freeze needed Ra's Al Ghul's blood to make the cure (since Ra's had been exposed to Lazarus for centuries). At the end it should be easy to get plenty of that blood.

** Joker didn't inject Batman with Titan, he injected him with his own poisoned blood. Toxins have been slowly building up in the Joker's blood over the past year, until now having it in your system is downright fatal. It's similar to the plot of Iron Man 2; using a palladium powered pacemaker isn't killing Tony by itself, but it's slowly rendering his blood toxic and ''that's'' killing him.

** An alternate explanation. Joker uses himself as the first test subject to almost all the chemicals he makes and has a near superhuman immune system. The fact that his Titan blood is killing him at all, much less making him sick, is amazing in my eyes. It only stands to reason it'd affect others far more quickly.

** Also, since TITAN is a mutagen, it could be an autoimmune disease similar to AIDS. TITAN-affected cells create antibodies that release toxins, so TITAN exposure starts a slow buildup of the antibodies. This would progress over time, so the blood with the high concentration of [[TITA Ned]] cells acts toxicly. That would also explain the 24-hours-of-degrading-health rather than instant death.

** Joker, apparently, has been sitting in a medical chair on oxygen for much of the time between the games. Batman, on top of the reasons listed earlier, has been running around, exercising, fighting, getting injured, healing, etc, basically keeping his metabolism high.

*** The Arkham-verse seems to generally match the broad strokes of the DCAU (up until the founding of the Justice League, at least) and the comics, all of which establish Joker in basically the same fashion: Some criminal (career or first-timer, it varies) dressed up as The Red Hood and got knocked into a vat of chemicals. What is probaby confusing you is that nobody knows who he really IS. They know how he got his face messed up, but nobody knows who he was before that (or just how much of that impacted who he became).

** It's the [[Superhero Paradox]]

** Strange gets a lot of things wrong. This is no different.

** In the Joker interviews, Strange notes that the one thing all of Joker's origin stories have in common is that Batman is involved somehow. In addition, both Mr. Freeze and the Penguin blame Batman/ Bruce Wayne for their situation in their interviews and the Riddler's whole motivation in both games is to prove that he's more intelligent than Batman. Batman didn't create all the villains, but there are a lot of fairly major villains that are in some way connected to him, plus there is the idea of escalation discussed at the end of ''Batman Begins''.

*** Closer to the way antibiotics means that only antibiotic-resistant bacteria survive.

* So wait. If the sick Joker was actually Joker, and the healthy Joker was {{spoiler|Clayface!Joker}}... who was the dead Joker in the Steel Mill?

** But he shows up as deceased in Detective Mode, too.

** It could be just some random victim made-up to look like Joker. It's not like you get the chance to perform a DNA analysis or anything.

** Simple. {{spoiler|Joker uses makeup to appear healthy. The one that knocked Bats out was the real Joker, while the other one was Clayface.}}

** That idea actually doesn't work, because as shown later in the game, when you see {{spoiler|Clayface Joker}} in combat, he appears {{spoiler|without any bones. So unless he can form bones inside of his shape-shifted body, the best idea here so far is that dying Joker was just waiting there with a rigged heartbeat monitor.}} Maybe Batman's Detective mode only picks up heartbeat levels between a certain value? That way {{spoiler|the Joker could have used either chemicals or relaxation/meditation techniques to keep his heartbeat level low enough?}} Then again, ''that'' doesn't explain how Bats' Detective Mode can pick up unconscious mooks' heartbeats and [[Austin Powers|oh no I've]] [[Memetic Mutation|gone cross-eyed.]]

* This is the first time Bats has encountered any Azrael. Just what the hell happened in the Arkhamverse's equivalent of Knightfall?

** Maybe this time logic prevailed and Dick was allowed to become Batman for a spell?

*** He was in the original comics, after JPV was fired, though not many people remember. I'm not sure Knightfall happened in this continuity, aside from a one-off reference that could just be a [[Shout-Out]]. Incidentally, I like the idea of the Order of St. Dumas as "good" (I assume) counterparts to the League of Shadows.

** The answer's kind of simple. There's more than one Azrael in the DCU. Jean-Paul Valley was the Azreal that substituted for Batman against Bane, but the one you meet in Arkham City is one Michael Lane. Hense the confusion.

* How did Harley end up tied to a pole and gagged in the Steel Mill? Did I miss a cut-scene?

** {{spoiler|Talia stole the cure from her.}}

** I interpreted that as the point of Arkham City, that Batman and The Joker are actually [[Friendly Rivals]]. Batman says he still would've saved him and Joker makes a valid point that he's the only person who really understands Batman and vice-versa. Thinking back to Arkham Asylum, when the fake kitten bombs are announced Batman instantly knows it's a lie. Because he knows The Joker. [[They Really Do Love Each Other]].

* We see that after taking Riddler down, Aaron Cash and the other doctors stay at Riddler's hideout. Zsasz's two hostages also stay in Zsasz's hideout. The rest of Riddler's hostages (Eddie Burlow, William North, Anne Bishop, Adam Hamasaki, a male doctor and a female doctor) eventually end up in the church, alongside Jack Ryder, Vicki Vale and Quincy Sharp. But then there are Stacey Baker and Fiona Wilson. After saving them, Batman encounters them again later on, safe and sound, when he has to return to the areas he left them in, but upon returning to those areas again, they are nowhere to be found anymore. What in the world could have happened to them? Did they escape to somewhere else? Where they discovered by the bad guys? Questions, questions...

** To strengthen the above, the game locks you into completing the main story pretty much after you re-enter the Steel Mill / Wonder City, so you're not likely to return to these areas a third time until the game's completed—by which point the GCPD appear to be entering Arkham City ''en force'' and claiming the TYGER facilities. It's possible that the police located them. Furthermore, IIRC Batman makes a comment to both of them that they seem to be really good at hiding; it's possible they've tucked themselves away into somewhere he can't find them until things really quieten down.

* So, why does Freeze's face {{spoiler|turn into Joker's}} for a split second while Batman beats him down? I assumed it was because {{spoiler|the Mad Hatter}} was stalking him, but it's never really explained.

** Since Sharpie is the mayor, it's possible that he's the one supplying the weapons in hopes that the thugs will kill each other, and maybe even get Batman.

** Also, let's not forget that we've seen promotional footage of buildings marked "Sionis Industries," hinting that the Black Mask could have a hand in all this. As 'Mask is one of Gotham's most notorious crime-bosses, it makes sense that he'd still have ties to whatever buildings bare his name. Plus, some of his own men were locked up in Blackgate before Sharpe closed it and Arkham, so they probably know where a lot of his hidden weapons caches were in that part of Gotham from working with him.

** Turns out there's a canon explanation. {{spoiler|Strange shipped them in to create a crisis, which he could use to get the City to activate Emergency Protocol 10, which gives him ''even more power'' over Arkham City. He and Tyger can then kill anyone in it at will.}}

** Penguin was also sealed IN Arkham City. Explaining how his crew got the best stuff.

*** Plus, it's ''Gotham.'' The number of people who'd believe Batman if he revealed what he knows is small, and the number of people who'd act on that knowedge is smaller. Not to mention the fact that it's all circumstantial evidence based on a bunch of rocks with writing on them, placed in areas where hardly anyone can find them.

*** There's audio accompanying them, though, isn't there? And there's a lot of evidence in a room that Sharp was locked in. As for the "not many people would believe Batman", well, he didn't exactly take the evidence with him when he left Arkham, and Gordon and the rest of the GCPD would kind of ''have'' to find it. As for "Batman's not the type to share that kind of information", well, that really depends. I think he would once Sharp began running for mayor, as Sharp's clearly completely insane and could do anything with the city (and has, evidenced by Arkham City's existence). I'm sure that there'll be an explanation given, but until then, I can't not consider it fridge logic.

**** Witnesses? Batman saved the day ''live'' on the ten o'clock news.

**** Although to be fair, Commissioner Gordon spent most of the crisis either held hostage or experiencing brief moments of not being held hostage, so it's not like he's really in a position to challenge Sharpe's effectiveness much. As for other witnesses, it's been speculated that Sharpe probably took the "I coordinated the retaking of the asylum and Batman was following my lead" approach—and since most of the surviving witnesses spent most of the crisis holed up in various places in the asylum with only Batman going backwards and forwards between them, there's no one really to challenge that. Alternatively, this is Gotham we're talking about, and he's got Hugo Strange of all people pulling his strings; a hefty dose of bribery, voter fraud and / or mind control isn't entirely off the cards. For what it's worth, though, one of the ''Arkham City'' tie-in comics has Vicki Vale call Sharp on precisely this issue during an interview.

** The game reveals the truth: {{spoiler|Hugo Strange had connections that would ensure Sharp won. Strange's connections turned out to be Ra's al Ghul and the League of Assassins.}}

** Strange seems to be using some kind of truth serum on the henchman; he probably wants to get as completely accurate a rendition of events as possible while ensuring that said henchman doesn't feel like embellishing the account, downplaying it to sooth his pride (since one guy beating the crap out of him and his entire unit has to smart a bit) or otherwise playing with the truth. He just happens to use more than the henchman can take without killing him, but then, he's Hugo Strange, and it's doubtful he really gives a shit. [[You Have Outlived Your Usefulness]] probably plays a part as well.

* So {{spoiler|the Joker donated a bunch of his now-toxic blood to hospitals across Gotham to make Batman find a cure.}} Did they not ''test'' it?

** There are a couple possible explanations: 1) He knows she's a sometimes ally of Batman, and wants to test her skills so he'll know what he's up against if she ever decides to try and take him down. 2) He's bitter that she's considered a better thief than him, and is trying to humiliate her by showing that she's incapable of "stealing" all the trophies.

** My personal off-the-wall theory was that Eddie put out those trophies for Catwoman because he ''liked'' her and wanted to impress her with how clever he was. Also, notice, while Batman gets zapped if he tries to take a Catwoman trophy, Catwoman can pick up Batman trophies just fine.

##Why can't Batman block shield attacks? I'm pretty sure he has the physical strength necessary to put out his hands and just stop the shielded guy's attempted thrusts. We're talking about a man who ''bench presses a thousand pounds''.

*** The shields the thugs are using are a new kind of riot shield. Push a button on the handle and the entire shield turns into a tazer. (Note that when you get hit with a shield, the screen does the same "static" effect it does when a thug with a stun stick hits you.) Just grabbing the shield would get Bats nothing but zapped.

** They're waiting for them to overcommit themselves to an attack, trying to knock them out sooner would have resulted in getting slashed. Before that point if they tried to go for a KO the attacker was in a position to bring the blade back along to stab Batman/Catwoman in the side, '''AND''' the blade hand is a full arm's length away. For example the normal blade fiends slice horizontally, and can simply bring the blade back easily to stab Batman, but the last hit they're going down vertically, which is when Batman grabs their wrist because it's right in front of him instead of a full-arm's length away.

##How the fudge does wearing improvised armor protect you from punches thrown by a human being who has trained himself to physical perfection? Armor helps against piercing and cutting attacks, but the concussive force of a blunt attack will still carry through—unless I failed physics somewhere.

* Regarding the total lack of concern the police had for the officer murdered by Penguin:

** The seven remaining officers travel from the entry foyer to the iceberg lounge, stopping to gather weapons and construct a barricade. Yet despite passing within feet of the body, none of them bother to retrieve their fellow officers remains (it is still where it originally fell).

** One of the officers is seen playing with Penguin's umbrella gun that was used to murder the officer, even accidentally firing a shot. This weapon was used to murder a police officer, and the culprit has not yet faced trial. You would assume they would set it aside (they have plenty of other weapons), or that The World's Greatest Detective would suggest to stop contaminating evidence.

*** The Penguin is already in prison, and has commited so many crimes and left so much proof (all the trophy cases pretty much contain admissions of guilt) that it honestly wouldn't make a difference. Of course, since it's Gotham, he'll probably get off lightly.

* Why does Penguin have speakers in his throat?

** Well Penguin is a smoker...

** You forget that {{spoiler|He's behind Hugo Strange, so he does have an interest in keeping his Pit underneath Arkham City secure. As for building Wonder City around it, he was using it as an experiment and Gotham was the perfect place to put it in.}}

* How do the various gangs move about Arkham city? The roads are all broken, blocked, etc... And that's not even counting the places that are, errr, vertically unreachable without flight, a grapple gun, or wall-clinging powers. Heck, the Industrial district has no land linking it to the rest of Arkham City, so how does the Joker send his people places? How does Harley Quinn even manage to go to the GCPD?

**** In the middle of winter and with no protective clothing? Not a very good idea.

*** Some of them got trapped when Joker's crew took out the bridges. Other might be using rafts.

* Maybe I'm not all that clear on how the Creeper's powers work, but why didn't Jack Ryder just transform when those guys were beating him down?

** Refer to the post further above the page. In short, either Jack Ryder isn't the Creeper in this continuity, or he isn't aware that he is.

** And, hey, what's the worst thing that can happen? Batman refuses to help him and he's... exactly where he started. By which I mean, dead. Might as well try.

* How did Riddler set up some of his riddles? The trophies, cameras, camera control consoles, and most of the riddles and breakables could have been set up months before Batman arrived, but some of the breakables and two of the riddles clearly are not present at the time when Batman first passes through the areas they appear in. The riddle concerning {{spoiler|Mr Freeze and his wife can be considered plausible, as Riddler could have known where Nora was and guess that Freeze would either find her or be told of her location eventually}}, but what about the one concerning the {{spoiler|Abrovomici brothers? He had no way of knowing that the two would reconcile when he posited that riddle to Batman, much less ''the exact room the reunion would take place in''}}.

* When Strange was run through by {{spoiler|Ra's}}, he bled. This is expected. When Joker was run through by {{spoiler|Talia}}, he didn't bleed. This makes sense, since {{spoiler|the person being impaled was really Clayface acting as Joker's [[Body Double]]}}. But when {{spoiler|Ra's ran himself through}}, there was no blood. Why?

** 'cause he's so old his blood is dust? Like [[The Simpsons (animation)|Mr Burns]]?

*** I don't think that's fair to say about the devs. The female characters have pre-determined personalities from the comics; the writers wrote the women accordingly. If there's a failing in how they're portrayed, it would be the "fault" of the comics, not the game itself.<br />And I'm going to chime in on the "sexist" accusations: people are being idiots. It would be absolutely ridiculous for a city full of male criminals who happily follow extremely disturbed individuals to also be feminists who treat women as equals and would never dream of slut shaming or using derogatory language. All the men being sexist assholes are criminals. They're murderers. And statistically, at least ''some'' of them must be rapists. That's not a winning combination for gender equality. I'm honestly stunned that anyone would consider the game/writers to be sexist for writing the thugs this way.

**** See, I don't think they really do. They know that the word is sexist, and it makes them uncomfortable, and it was put in the game on purpose. These are, after all, the villains. They're ''supposed'' to be awful people, and that is signaled by having them indulge in speech habits that are generally upheld (with good reason) to be awful.

* Where are the female prisoners? There has to have been a section of blackgate for female convict, if not just a section then a whole prison made for them. Where are they?

** They're invisible! ...But seriously, I think that's just something the devs didn't want to deal with. A possible in-game explanation: from the comments the thugs make, both to each other and to Catwoman, it's pretty clear what would happen if they mixed the genders. I'm assuming that the women are housed in an area that Batman never goes to (maybe inside the facility itself, rather than the city?) because there's no threat there for him to deal with. All the villains are male save for Poison Ivy (who is not currently an active threat and is best left the hell alone regardless) and Harley Quinn (just leave her with her puddin', and [[Blatant Lies|no one gets hurt]]). There's also Catwoman, who has her own apartment. All of them are perfectly capable of defending themselves, and Catwoman and Ivy wouldn't find breaking out very difficult. Might as well let them roam.

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[[Category:Games/Headscratchers]]

[[Category:Headscratchers]]

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