Spoony Bard: Difference between revisions

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(Research has shown this was NOT an intended thing.)
(Reworked an example (the order is intentional. Pathfinder 1e is explicitly a continuation of third edition D&D, while Pathfinder 2e is its own game).)
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*** Third edition also had the beguiler class, which was very solidly this trope. It was essentially a bard with fewer skill points, lower attack bonuses, and ''only'' illusion and enchantment spells (as opposed to the bard's ''mostly'' illusion and enchantment selection). In comparison, the bard suddenly became a very viable option. They are more or less Final Fantasy IV's Edward as a class given that the only things they are good at is messing with enemies without directly hurting them, and hiding (either through invisibility, disguises or what-have-you).
*** Third edition also had the beguiler class, which was very solidly this trope. It was essentially a bard with fewer skill points, lower attack bonuses, and ''only'' illusion and enchantment spells (as opposed to the bard's ''mostly'' illusion and enchantment selection). In comparison, the bard suddenly became a very viable option. They are more or less Final Fantasy IV's Edward as a class given that the only things they are good at is messing with enemies without directly hurting them, and hiding (either through invisibility, disguises or what-have-you).
*** The Factotum is divisive. Certain players love its "versatility" while others deride it for being too absurdly weak to actually contribute meaningfully no matter how "versatile" it professes to be. Likewise, the Chameleon prestige class.
*** The Factotum is divisive. Certain players love its "versatility" while others deride it for being too absurdly weak to actually contribute meaningfully no matter how "versatile" it professes to be. Likewise, the Chameleon prestige class.
*** The ''[[Pathfinder]]'' Bard avoids the fifth wheel problem by changes to the class and skill system making it good at the "skillmonkey" role by default, so it can occupy one of the main roles by default while being free to supplement the others as desire. Furthering helping is that Bardic music is less action intense, they now get a special ability to make Perform is as good as two skills instead of an otherwise wasted skill needed to use their abilities, and Bardic Knowledge is just a flat bonus to Knowledge checks instead of a weird Knowledge category of its own.
** Mostly averted in [https://web.archive.org/web/20130623113141/http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd%2Fdramp%2F20081103 fourth edition. Bards] are a "leader" class (healer/buffer/debuffer) like Clerics and Warlords, and are neither conspicuously better nor conspicuously worse at that role than those classes; they'll be solid contributors to any party that isn't overloaded with such characters. Bards tend to focus more on debuffs than the others, which have their own specialties too. In a nod to their "jack of all trades" style in previous editions, they are the only class that can take multiclass feats corresponding to more than one other class.
** Mostly averted in [https://web.archive.org/web/20130623113141/http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd%2Fdramp%2F20081103 fourth edition. Bards] are a "leader" class (healer/buffer/debuffer) like Clerics and Warlords, and are neither conspicuously better nor conspicuously worse at that role than those classes; they'll be solid contributors to any party that isn't overloaded with such characters. Bards tend to focus more on debuffs than the others, which have their own specialties too. In a nod to their "jack of all trades" style in previous editions, they are the only class that can take multiclass feats corresponding to more than one other class.
*** In 4th Edition, the ''Cleric'' class [[Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards|of all people]] very easily led to this trope—especially before the lion's share of the [[Splatbooks]] came out. The class was (and is) the most eclectic in the game, with a lot of powers bordering on useless and/or counterproductive to the role. Fortunately, due to the lowered ability density of 4th Edition they still retain(ed) their [[Game Breaker]] status (as least [[Obvious Rule Patch|before the errata onslaught anyway]]) to a player who knows what they're doing. To one that doesn't, they're this trope.
*** In 4th Edition, the ''Cleric'' class [[Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards|of all people]] very easily led to this trope—especially before the lion's share of the [[Splatbooks]] came out. The class was (and is) the most eclectic in the game, with a lot of powers bordering on useless and/or counterproductive to the role. Fortunately, due to the lowered ability density of 4th Edition they still retain(ed) their [[Game Breaker]] status (as least [[Obvious Rule Patch|before the errata onslaught anyway]]) to a player who knows what they're doing. To one that doesn't, they're this trope.
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* The alchemist in ''[[Pathfinder]]'' Second Edition is widely considered worthless for having terrible proficiencies across the board (even in alchemical bombs!), many class feats so specific in their use they're barely worth picking, and essentially being a consumable item dispenser that requires a specific party composition to even work and have an impact. Whatever an alchemist tries to specialize in, another class will do it way better without trying hard.
* And then there was [http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/bard.html#bard Pathfinder. The Bard] now supplies large bonuses to his party without it taking up his actions and has class features which grant him "virtual" skills by allowing Perform to double up for two more skills. In addition, the Bard is able to use all Knowledges without training, and half his level is added as a bonus. You have a class which buffs his whole team, is a skill monkey, and without spending a single skill point is likely to know more about everything than the rest of the party combined, plus serves as a natural face for the group. Sure, the Bard is still not a powerhouse in combat, but in any but the most hack-n-slash campaigns, it's a solid, non-spoony choice.
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** The alchemist in Second Edition is widely considered worthless for having terrible proficiencies across the board (even in alchemical bombs!), many class feats so specific in their use they're barely worth picking, and essentially being a consumable item dispenser that requires a specific party composition to even work and have an impact. Whatever an alchemist tries to specialize in, another class will do it way better without trying hard.
* The [[Returners Final Fantasy Roleplaying Game]] practically inverts this trope, especially in relation to the [[Trope Namer]]. They can endlessly throw around group affecting buffs and debuffs for free while still doing decent magical damage and they can use Hide to avoid predictable attacks making them very valuable against both tough mobs and bosses. Their main weakness, just to further separate them from [[Final Fantasy IV|Edward]], is a tendency to go last.
* The [[Returners Final Fantasy Roleplaying Game]] practically inverts this trope, especially in relation to the [[Trope Namer]]. They can endlessly throw around group affecting buffs and debuffs for free while still doing decent magical damage and they can use Hide to avoid predictable attacks making them very valuable against both tough mobs and bosses. Their main weakness, just to further separate them from [[Final Fantasy IV|Edward]], is a tendency to go last.
* [[Warhammer 40,000]] has the iconic Tactical Squad, which can be given a Missile Launcher (with two types of ammo, one for anti-tank and one for anti-horde), a flame thrower for close ranged combat, the sergeant being tooled up for actual close combat, and can be split into two squads so that the close combat half can move and cap objectives while the heavy weapon guy can sit back and shoot. They can also take a Razorback Transport, which can bring the Close combat half up to the enemy while providing another heavy weapon, which is mobile. To top it off, they're pretty cheap for what you pay for. This all ''looks'' good on paper, as they can theoretically take on any threat they see, it's actually horrifying bad, as they cannot put enough shots/attacks to ''kill'' whatever threat they see. Especially glaring is the Missile launcher, whose anti-horde firing mode in theory can hit multiple targets, but because of coherency rules, it'll likely hit no more than 2, and that's if it's ''lucky'' (and on top of that, there's roughly a 75% chance of the target in question surviving anyways). The only reason they are still widely used is because the only alternative to fill the standard marine's troop choice is the badly-priced Scouts, which are roughly the same cost as marines, but lack their stats and survivability in lieu of other rules. In armies that gives the player another choice for troops, Tactical Marines are almost universally passed up in favor of those.
* [[Warhammer 40,000]] has the iconic Tactical Squad, which can be given a Missile Launcher (with two types of ammo, one for anti-tank and one for anti-horde), a flame thrower for close ranged combat, the sergeant being tooled up for actual close combat, and can be split into two squads so that the close combat half can move and cap objectives while the heavy weapon guy can sit back and shoot. They can also take a Razorback Transport, which can bring the Close combat half up to the enemy while providing another heavy weapon, which is mobile. To top it off, they're pretty cheap for what you pay for. This all ''looks'' good on paper, as they can theoretically take on any threat they see, it's actually horrifying bad, as they cannot put enough shots/attacks to ''kill'' whatever threat they see. Especially glaring is the Missile launcher, whose anti-horde firing mode in theory can hit multiple targets, but because of coherency rules, it'll likely hit no more than 2, and that's if it's ''lucky'' (and on top of that, there's roughly a 75% chance of the target in question surviving anyways). The only reason they are still widely used is because the only alternative to fill the standard marine's troop choice is the badly-priced Scouts, which are roughly the same cost as marines, but lack their stats and survivability in lieu of other rules. In armies that gives the player another choice for troops, Tactical Marines are almost universally passed up in favor of those.
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