Umineko: When They Cry/WMG/Colored Text: Difference between revisions

** {{<span style="color|:blue|;">Every statement includes an implicit assertion of its own truth. Thus, "This statement is false." is equivilentequivalent to "This statement is true and this statement is false." The second statement is a contradiction and thus false. The second statesmentstatement and the first statmentstatement are eqivilentequivalent. Thus, the phrase "This statement is false." will simply be treated as a lie, Beato will be unable to say it in red, but will suffer no further consequences}}</span>

== Things to do with {{<span style="color|:gold|;">gold text}}</span>. ==

* "<s>Dine's</s> {{<span style="color|:gold|;">Knox's rules do not apply.}}</span> In other words, this is not a Mystery."

== <span {{style="color|:green|;">Green Text is Fourth Wall Truth.}}</span> ==

In The Stake's Valentine's Day; Ronove is commenting on how Angel's Horn or Devil's Horn is perfect on Chocolates; when suddenly a [[Do Not Try This At Home]] disclaimer appears in {{<span style="color|:green|;">green}}</span> comments on how these things are poisonous. Ronove nonchalantly responds to...um...nobody that well, yeah, to ''humans'', not demons; very well, they'll skip those ingredients.

* However, the {{<span style="color|:green|;">Green Text}}</span> will doubtfully be used in story. Watch me be proven wrong, it'll be great.

* Adding to that, the {{<span style="color|:green|;">Grimoire}}</span> that's added to the TIPS in the Witch Hunt translations use {{<span style="color|:green|;">Green Text}}</span> to explain translation notes of interest and clarifications. Does that fall under Fourth Wall Truth, or has Ryu07 been royally cornered? Either way, it'll be fucking epic.

** {{<span style="color|:green|;">Implying green text means anything}}</span>

**** You misunderstood. "Grimore" is how the [[Fan Translation|Witch-Hunt]] call the the part of the menu they explain their translation. In their translation, every time you see the {{<span style="color|:green|;">green text}}</span> you are to go to the 'grimore'(one page after 'TIPS") to read what the translators had to say about it. Therefore, there, the {{<span style="color|:green|;">green text}}</span> ''is'' [[Breaking the Fourth Wall|aimed to the reader]]. Since it was already this way before Ryuukishi first use it, it could be, indeed, an [[Ascended Fanon]] if this [[WMG]] is correct.

** The statement is "{{<span style="color|:gold|;">I guarantee that this corpse is Ushiromiya Kinzo's corpse!}}</span>" a promise from the master of that world that that is true, in the same way that the author promises that a mystery is solvable along the same vein of the conversation above.

* This also fits with the comment about it being both superior and inferior, on par with the red truth, premise of the story could be {{<span style="color|:gold|;">"Secret doors exist"}}</span>, it is absolute above the red truth as the premise is secret doors exist, yet even if "Secret doors exist" the red truth can still trump that with the Red <span style="color:red;">No Secret doors exist in this room"</span>, it falls in line with the premise that "Secret doors exist", yet it overrides the premise to mean "{{<span style="color|:gold|;">Secret doors exist,}}</span> <span style="color:red;">outside of this room"</span>

** {{<span style="color|:gold|;">The gold truth is used to make any true statement using the rules of Beato's game as a basis for deduction.}}</span>

This is an extension of the idea that there are two people named Ushironomiya Battler due to the events in EP 4. <span style="color:red;">Any Red Truth which uses the name 'Battler' can refer to anyone by the name of Battler.</span>} {{<span style="color|:blue|;">As shown by EP 4 there is at least one other person who was named Battler, the alive or dead status does not matter, the important point is that this person existed. Thus any red text using the name 'Battler' could refer to this other Battler, this allows for such possibilities as Battler being the murderer.}}</span>

* <span style="color:red;">Knox's 1st! It is forbidden for the culprit to be anyone not mentioned in the early part of the story! A person that was not first introduced in</span> {{<span style="color|:blue|;">the first game}}</span> <span style="color:red;">cannot be named as the culprit! Furthermore, it has been stated in Red that "Battler-kun is not the culprit. Battler-kun didn't kill anyone. This can be said of all games."</span> {{<span style="color|:blue|;">Because it was stated in Red that the 'Battler' seen in all games so far, including the meta-world Battler, is not the culprit, he is ruled out until we receive a statement in Gold that Virgilia was not referring to the 'Battler' that was in every game plus meta-Battler. Furthermore, because the second 'Battler' was not introduced in EP1, it is impossible for him to be the culprit due to Knox's 1st!}}</span> I acknowledge the possibility that Knox's Decalogue does not apply to any of the games, <span style="color:red;">but the possibility that Knox's Decalogue '''DOES'does'' apply to the games still stands until disproven in Gold by the Game Master!</span> <span style="color:red;">Even if it is stated in Red, it will not work unless the Game Master states it in Gold!</span>

** {{<span style="color|:blue|;">This also means that there can be multiple Battlers as long as none of them is the culprit, so Knox's 1st does not apply. That means that the term 'Battler', and anything said about 'Battler', can be applied to any individual named 'Battler'.}}</span> also... <span style="color:red;">I can't trust Knox's Decalogue if it arbitrarily skips the whole 'Chinaman' rule...</span>

It has to do with those damn [[From a Certain Point of View|certain points of view]], and the possibility that {{<span style="color|:blue|;">you might not know what you were saying in red}}</span>.

To explain that last part (and this is not a WMG, it is a completely hypothetical situation intended only to clarify; please do not attempt to prove or disprove it), assume that Maria unknowingly has an alternate personality called "Beatrice the Golden", who may or may not be based on an actual person. Maria kills someone in her "Beatrice" personality then reverts to her "Maria" persona, and when confronted over it, says <span style="color:red;">"Maria did not do this. Beatrice did."</span> What Maria meant when she said that is "This murder was committed by a person named Beatrice, who is completely distinct from Maria Ushiromiya." {{<span style="color|:blue|;">If the Red Truth cared what she meant, she would not be able to say this, as it would be false. However, she can say it}}</span>, because the [[Exact Words]] can be interpreted as "This murder was committed by 'Beatrice', who is not 'Maria' (note the quotes!)."

So what does this have to do with the supernatural? Consider the statement <span style="color:red;">"Witches and sorcerers exist."</span> There are multiple definitions of the word "witch", {{<span style="color|:blue|;">any of which may be applied to this statement, regardless of what the speaker intended to say}}</span>:

# {{<span style="color|:blue|;">At least one Ushiromiya can cast spells.}}</span>

# {{<span style="color|:blue|;">At least one Ushiromiya is deluding themselves into thinking they can do magic.}}</span>

# <span style="color:red;">At least one Ushiromiya believes in magic and tries to use it.</span> {{<span style="color|:blue|;">Whether they actually can or not is irrelevant.}}</span>

# {{<span style="color|:blue|;">At least one member of the Ushiromiya family practices Wicca.}}</span>

# {{<span style="color|:blue|;">This universe operates according to all known scientific laws. Magic therefore does not exist except as parlor tricks and delusions.}}</span>

# {{<span style="color|:blue|;">This universe operates according to known and unknown natural laws. If magic exists, it follows those laws and cannot be strictly called a "supernatural element".}}</span>

# {{<span style="color|:blue|;">There is an organization attempting to exterminate the supernatural. That organization's rules forbid supernatural elements.}}</span>

* This can count as a WMG regarding the rules for using the Red Truth. As for the info itself, I love it, though, I felt a few added touches were necessary. Hope you don't mind.<ref>{{<span style="color|:gold|;">This one will be hereafter referred to as either the Respondent, or as the Editor, within this WMG.}}</span></ref>

* <span style="color:red;">I respectfully disagree with the OP. At first I thought this WMG was pure, unbridled genius,</span> {{<span style="color|:blue|;">but the principle that the red text didn't take the actual meaning of the speaker into account doesn't make sense.}}</span>

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but <span style="color:red;">from what I remember, Battler couldn't say "Ushiromiya Asumu is my mother!" in the red text.</span> {{<span style="color|:blue| ;">If your theory is correct, and the red text doesn't take into account what Battler meant,}}</span> <span style="color:red;">which was "Ushiromiya Asumu gave birth to me,"</span> {{<span style="color|:blue| ;">his words could've literally meant "Ushiromiya Asumu raised me," "Ushiromiya Asumu gave birth to me," and/or "Spiritually, I consider Ushiromiya Asumu to be my maternal figure."}}</span> <span style="color:red;">Asumu did, in fact, raise Battler, at least for a part of his life,</span> {{<span style="color|:blue|;">so, if your theory was true, he'd be able to say those words. And, because he couldn't, if your red text theory was true, it couldn't mean anything I said above. However,}}</span> <span style="color:red;">one of the interpretations listed above was most certainly true,</span> and so therefore {{<span style="color|:blue| ;">the theory is false.}}</span><ref> Sorry for the wording. I'm kind of out of it, and I tried to make it coherent, but... ;;</ref>

** {{<span style="color|:green|;">The Green Truth feels a bit left out.}}</span>

It's not that it's telling complete lies, but the red truth can be manipulated into being used for untrue statements, not necessarily outright lies. The trick is in punctuation. Sometimes, when red truths are spoken, the full stop, comma or the exclamation mark, or whatever is at the end of the sentence is not in red. This might mean that that specific statement was abruptly ended before being completed. That itself is outside of the definition of lying, but still inside the bounds of the rules of Battler's and Beatrice's game. {{<span style="color|:blue|;">It is a practice akin to 'quote mining', but you could say it's quote mining in reverse.}}</span>

***** (Respondent here.) <span style="color:red;">A diary belonging to Natsuhi was mentioned in EP5.</span> Battler can ask for the date of Kinzo's alleged death and compare Natsuhi's entry against that of a more "sane" person (say, Nanjo's records) and ''voila'', confirmation. {{<span style="color|:purple|;">This is}}</span> {{<span style="color|:grey|;">(1)one of many possible ways|(2)the only possible way}}</span> {{<span style="color|:purple| ;">for Battler to confirm Kinzo's death.}}</span> It has been stated that Gold needs a check for absolute validity. Furthermore, anything said in Gold can be said in Red, but not always vice versa. Finally, <span style="color:red;">Kinzo has been stated in Red to have already died before the events of October 4 and 5, 1986</span>, therefore, {{<span style="color|:purple|;">Battler}}</span> {{<span style="color|:grey|;">(1)can|(2)must}}</span> {{<span style="color|:purple|;">use that as well to confirm that the corpse is Kinzo's.}}</span> Counter that, if you can! You can't, can you? ''[[Punctuated! For! Emphasis!|''This!]] '''[[Punctuated! For! Emphasis!|Is!]] <divspan style="font-size:120%;">[[Punctuated! For! Emphasis!|CHECKMAAAAAAAAAAAATE!!!</span>]]'''''</div>

* So basically, {{color|blue| the Golden Truth is the statement of rules of Beatrice's game.}} This, in a way, combines the idea of "Beatrice's heart" (as Beatrice is the embodiment of the rules), premise truth (as the rules are based off the premise), AND explains Ryukishi's statement that "even pieces can use the Golden Truth." After all, if you're in an RP and a player starts godmodding, you can accuse them of breaking the rule {{<span style="color|:gold|;">"No godmodding allowed"}}</span>, even if you're not the GM.

* Seriously, it's awesome. Although it needs a simpler color to write and use. I propose {{<span style="color|:purple|;">Purple}}</span>. Schrodinger's cat is neither alive nor dead, and the Schroedinger's truth, an analytical truth rather than an absolute truth or a theory, also exists between them. Purple is a fusion of red and blue, and is a worthy color for the Schrodinger's truth.

{{<span style="color|:purple|;">There will be a</span> <span }}{{style="color|:grey|;">(1)twist|(2)untwist/absence of a twist}}{{</span> <span style="color|:purple| ;">regarding the red truth. The probability at this point for either to be is equal. Anything Ryuukishi states outside the novels</span> }}{{<span style="color|:grey|;">(1)is|(2)is not}}</span> {{<span style="color|:purple|;">a red herring, and therefore anything he reveals outside of the novels</span> }}{{<span style="color|:grey|;">(3)can|(4)can not}}{{</span> <span style="color|:purple| ;">be regarded as reliable information. Therefore, the probability for X to carry the value of 1 is equal to the probability for X to carry the value of 0. The red truth</span> }}{{<span style="color|:grey|;">(5)is|(6)is not}}{{</span> <span style="color|:purple| ;">founded on the fallacy of bare assertion. Basically, the red truth claims it's telling the truth at all times, but</span> }}{{<span style="color|:grey|;">(5)nothing|(6)something (such as people lying and choking on red)}}{{</span> <span style="color|:purple| ;">other than the red truth itself can confirm that. That</span> }}{{<span style="color|:grey|;">(5)is a huge loophole, what means that there is a great chance for a first-degree twist to be lodged there, waiting to be exposed|(6)is only a postulate. Therefore, this isn't reliable information either.}}{{</span> <span style="color|:purple| ;">Any hint or revelation regarding the red truth before a certain (unspecified as of now) point in the storyline</span> }}{{<span style="color|:grey|;">(1)is|(2)is not}}{{</span> <span style="color|:purple| ;">a red herring. After examining these four statements, we can say nothing but that '''a first-degree twist is equally possible as a first-degree untwist at this point in time'''.}}</span>

***** Blue is used to declare hypotheses, Schroedringer's Truth is used to declare that if X is true then Y must also be true. For example, "{{<span style="color|:purple| ;">The victims were all killed by}}</span> {{<span style="color|:grey|;">Battler}}</span>, {{<span style="color|:purple|;">therefore, the culprit is</span> }}<span {{style="color|:grey| ;">Battler}}</span>" means that if Battler killed the victims then Battler is the culprit. It's actually closer to red then blue.

****** Then it could be called the {{<span style="color|:purple|;">Truth Of}}</span> <span {{style="color|:grey|;">Alternate Possibilities}}</span>, as the possibilities include at least one Red Truth and at least one Blue Truth. <span style="color:red;">This interests me more and more as it continues to unfold.</span>

******* (6th respondent here.) <span style="color:red;">Blue Truth proposes only one possibility, while Schroedinger's Truth proposes multiple ones, among which, is the real truth, not a twisted or omitted truth, but '''THE''' truth, the '''WHOLE''' truth, and '''NOTHING BUT''' the truth, so help us Beatrice.</span> Furthermore, to recite what the original creator of Schroedinger's Truth said of it, "''{{<span style="color|:gold|;">Keep in mind that the 'Schrodinger truth' is not really a truth, but rather a tool which may or may not help us judge how something might develop in the near future.}}</span>"'' <span style="color:red;">Schroedinger's Truth is '''not''' redundant.</span>

'''UPDATE''': (6th respondent here.) Due to the introduction of the Purple Declaration in EP5, it is called for that this be re-colored. I propose {{color|orange|Orange}} for Confirmed Red and {{<span style="color|:brown|;">Brown}}</span> for Unconfirmed Segments.

<span style="color:red;">Red Truth</span>, {{<span style="color|:blue| ;">Blue Truth}}</span>.

** Battler: {{color|yellow|<span style="color:gold;">X is the culprit because Y}}</span>

{{<span style="color|yellow|:gold;">You used magic to create a golden flower petal inside an overturned cup. It was a splendid bit of magic.}}</span>

{{color|yellow|<span style="color:gold;">A sixth master key will never be found.}}</span>