Umineko: When They Cry/WMG/Colored Text: Difference between revisions

The third premise doesn't contradict the previous two by a single bit, because the statement hasn't been completed in red, meaning it is still open to be filled in and completed at a later point in time. {{<span style="color|:blue|;">A contradiction would've arisen if the full stop at the end of the third premise had been written in red.}}</span> Furthermore, {{<span style="color|:blue|;">red truths whose ending punctuation is not in red are incomplete statements, and therefore cannot be considered completely or even partly true, and therefore bear no weight because they can not be interpreted correctly, and have been specifically designed to have the interpreter confused and led astray in his or her conclusions.}}</span> Not only that, but what completely undermines the red truth is the very first stament in red, which is:

{{<span style="color|:blue|;">If this claim is true, then the second game's first twilight's closed room has been blown open from all sides, and not even episode 4's ''????'' epilogue red truths can save it from being destroyed!}}</span>

== <span {{style="color|:blue| ;">Red truths made during the fifth and later games can be lies.}}</span> ==

<span style="color:red;">The "Red Key" tip notes that Lambda has weakened the Red Key, and on more then one occasion, someone demands that a Red Truth be backed by evidence, even though the absolute validity of the Red Truth is proclaimed in red during the game.</span> Furthermore, {{<span style="color|:blue| ;">There is absolutely no way for both of the following statements to be true:}}</span> <span style="color:red;">"The real Kinzo wouldn't say that. Disappear. You, the illusion of Kinzo inside Natsuhi's mind, beautified by Natsuhi to suit her own purposes." and "In other words, on this island, all illusions which might lead someone to mistake something for Grandfather, including someone else pretending to be Grandfather, 'most certainly cannot work'.</span>

** <span style="color:red;">What you're saying is that Natsuhi mistook her delusion for Kinzo.</span> {{<span style="color|:blue| ;">Which contradicts the second Red Truth I quoted.}}</span>

*** What is a delusion based on? {{<span style="color|:blue|;">A delusion is based upon nothing.}}</span> <span style="color:red;">There was no object, no matter that was confused for Kinzo by Natsuhi. Her delusions were images that have no physical presence.</span> {{<span style="color|:blue|;">In other words, they were nothing.}}</span> <span style="color:red;">People are not allowed to mistake "something" for Kinzo,</span> {{<span style="color|:blue|;">but they are allowed to mistake nothing for Kinzo. There is no contradiction.}}</span>

**** <span style="color:red;">Delusions are caused by problems in the brain,</span> {{<span style="color|:blue|;">therefore her delusion is based on ''something'', and thus violates the red truth. Furthermore, the idea that Natsuhi is delusional at all is based solely off of Red Truths that I have questioned the validity of, if you would claim she is delusional I demand that you present evidence outside the Red Truths.}}</span>

***** Where does it say that nothing could cause an illusion of Kinzo? Wasn't the red saying that people absolutely wouldn't mistake A, B, or C for Kinzo? {{<span style="color|:blue|;">Even if A, B, or C would not be seen as Kinzo, the rule doesn't prevent D from causing Kinzo to appear before someone, as long as they aren't 'seeing something that isn't Kinzo' as Kinzo.}}</span> <span style="color:red;">You haven't crushed my theory that Delusions are allowed even by Red, Troper!</span>\\ I won't give you time to recover, I won't, I'll shatter your 'Contradictory Red Truth' theory with this blue wedge! {{<span style="color|:blue|;">The 'illusion' of Kinzo doesn't refer to a literal illusion she sees and interacts with, but the way she always thought of Kinzo in her mind when he was alive!}}</span> <span style="color:red;">Natsuhi's perspective is subjective and based off of Knox's 9th, so it can't be proved whether she truly believed in magic and saw Kinzo in an 'illusion', or knowingly used her imagination to try to say to herself "WWKD".</span> Take that, fall, fall to the deepest depths of purgatory, where my goats will chew on you, chew your bones, and make a soup! You want a taste, tropeeeeer?! Tastes great, doesn't iiiit?! We can let you taste it with magic, ahahahaha-(Insert ahaha.wav here)\\ ...Er, sorry. It looks like I got a little carried away. Either way, I should tidy this up a bit. Alright. About people asking for evidence with the red, {{<span style="color|:blue|;">That was to force Battler to conform to Knox's 2nd, disallowing him from using a supernatural element such as magical 'red truth'.}}</span> A good analogy can be how real world trials can have evidence thrown out because it was gathered illegally. The part that makes it hard to think about is that the witch side and the human side are playing the same game, but the rules and moves allowed are ''different''. When Battler tried to play a witch move, Lambdadelta basically said "Yeah, your knights don't move in an L shape. Tough luck." Virgilia said that the game was winnable, she never said it was fair.

****** <span style="color:red;">Battler had been using the red truth as a detective tecnique since the second episode.</span> {{<span style="color|:blue| ;">Therefore, Beato's game didn't follow Knox's 2nd. And, thus Lambada's game has different rules then Beato's game. To use an analogy Beato was playing chess and Lambada was playing some other game that happens to use the same equipment. If the rule about using supernatural techniques can be different between Beato and Lambda game, then so can the rule about Red always being true.}}</span> <span style="color:red;">Even though the absououte validity of the Red Truth was proclaimed during the second game, we had reasonable grounds to doubt it, until Battler attempted to proclaim Asumu is his mother during the fourth game.</span> {{<span style="color|:blue|;">Since nothing like that happened during Lambada's game we have good reason to doubt any Red Truths made during her game.}}</span>

******** {{<span style="color|:blue|;">Ryukishi is trolling us.}}</span> <span style="color:red;">In the "Anti-Mystery vs Anti-Fantasy" TIP we're told we can only consider the Red Truth to be valid if we trust Beato. Later in episode four both Battler and Beato choke when trying to make false statements in red.</span> {{<span style="color|:blue|;">Thereby proving that the idea that the Red Truth could be meaningless was a red harring. If he did suddenly make it meaningless in episode 5 (thereby fitting what was said in "Anti-Mystery vs Anti-Fantasy"), it would serve to troll the entire fanbase.}}</span> Also, <span style="color:red;">Ryukishi has stated the game is solvable with just the first four episode, so it's not like we need the reds from the fifth game to be true.</span>