Blue and Orange Morality: Difference between revisions

 

{{quote|"''If you have struck any kind of bargain with Griphook, and most particularly if that bargain involves treasure, you must be exceptionally careful. Goblin notions of ownership, payment, and repayment are not the same as human ones.''"

 

To say that questions of [[White and Gray Morality|morality]] are thorny and [[Grey and Gray Morality|filled with gray]] when they aren't being [[Black and White Morality|hammered]] between [[Black and Gray Morality|stark]] [[Evil Versus Evil|absolutes]] is putting it mildly. Because of this there can be great drama when characters who [[Shades of Conflict|represent a wide range]] of moral viewpoints come [[Teeth-Clenched Teamwork|together]] or into conflict.

 

 

Just to repeat: that [[Dark Is Not Evil|doesn't make them bad]], although they are often liable to commit acts we would see as horrific; in that case, they're likely to follow these with completely benign behavior, and not act as if anything was the matter. Because in their world/mind, [[It's What I Do|that's just what they do]]. This trope is one of the trickier to pull off well, because [[Most Writers Are Human]], and it's often hard to portray alien without simplifying it to Evil-by-another-name.

 

{{examples}}

* The Angels from ''[[Neon Genesis Evangelion]]''.

** Especially Kaworu. By appearances, he comes off as simply [[Ambiguously Gay]] for Shinji, but things become more complicated when you realize that he doesn't seem to conform to human definitions of love or sexuality. He also seems to have a genuine admiration and respect for humanity and its achievements, despite attempting to cause [[The End of the World as We Know It]].

** [[All There in the Manual|A lot of Kaworu's traits come from]] Mark Twain's "''[[The Mysterious Stranger]].''" See below. It's where we get moments like [[Fan Nickname|Evil Manga Kaworu]].

** It should be noted that a definite angel is said to have "Blood Type Blue", while an ambiguous Angel has "Blood Type Orange". Take from that what you will.

** She loves to act like she's giving Haré an [[Aesop]], but always subverts it completely in the end.

* {{spoiler|Claire Stanfield}} from ''[[Baccano!]]''. He obviously ''has'' a moral code that he acts by, it's just so unusual that many of the people who encounter him end up with no idea whether he's actually a good person or a really horrible one. (his [[wikipedia:Solipsism|solipsist]] worldview may have something to do with it).

* Togashi makes allusions to this in ''[[Yu Yu Hakusho]]'', too, once the S-Class demons start to turn up. Previous, all the weird-thinking people like Sakyou and Sensui were [[Ax Crazy|insane]] or [[Complete Monster|just evil]].

* Togashi ''loves'' this trope—the Prince in ''[[Level E]]'' is similarly inscrutable, and even his compatriots and relatives often fails to understand whether he's really ''this'' different, or just a [[Jerkass]] [[Troll]].

* ''[[Mobile Suit Gundam 00|Gundam 00]]'' has the Extraterrestrial Liquid-metal Shapeshifters (ELS) from [[The Movie]]. These are intelligent metal-based life forms that evolved on a gas giant. They communicate telepathically, or by combining their physical forms together to form a unified being. Naturally there is some amount of extreme confusion between the two species when they meet humanity. The mutual misunderstandings lead to a war between the two before a clear means of communication is found.

* While there are plenty of fans that would love to simply write him off as evil, Mayuri Kurotsuchi of ''[[Bleach]]'' appears to operate on this standard. Mayuri is the ultimate scientist of the series, lacking his [[Good Counterpart]] Urahara's morality and his [[Evil Counterpart]] Szayel or Aizen's god complex; all that matters to Mayuri are results, and as such he doesn't seem to see any sort of hypocrisy in torturing Quincies to death as a form of study and then healing the last remaining one years later to show his new medicine works perfectly. He abuses his daughter, but from his own perspective this is because he knows for a fact his creation can handle it and people protesting how he treats Nemu are questioning the quality of her design. Szayel raping and nearly killing Nemu to save himself from death doesn't appear to bother Mayuri very much (of course, he can just "fix" her later), but he expresses utter contempt for him once he hears Szayel proclaiming himself a perfect being; perfection would be the death of scientific innovation, after all, and no man of science should view that as desirable.

* Kimblee in the ''[[Fullmetal Alchemist]]'' manga and second anime has an odd code which seems to consider holding true to your role or principles the most important thing, irrespective of their conventional morality. He criticizes soldiers for being reluctant to massacre defenseless people, but expresses admiration for the Rockbells for their determination to save lives (of the ''same people'' the soldiers were killing) as doctors. He sides with the homunculi because they give him freedom to practice his [[Stuff Blowing Up|alchemy]] without restriction, but claims to be primarily interested in who'll win the conflict between them and humans. In the end he {{spoiler|saves Ed from a [[Grand Theft Me]] by Pride because he's repelled by Pride abandoning his claims of superiority as a homunculus to merge with a human to save himself.}}

 

* For some wacky reason, nobody gets [[Deadpool|my moral code]]. Some people say it's 'cuz I'm [[Crazy Awesome|nuts]].

* Galactus was originally intended to be one of these. More recent interpretations have put more into a [[Above Good and Evil]] territory, with varying reasons for his planet devouring ways.

* The Harlequinade, in ''[[The Invisibles]]''.

* One early appearance of [[Doctor Strange]]'s extradimensional enemy [[Eldritch Abomination|Dormammu]] portrayed him this way, with Doc realizing Dormammu did have a bizarre and alien sense of honor which Doc could use to his advantage once he understood it.

* The Endless of [[Neil Gaiman]]'s ''[[The Sandman]]'' show this at times, and at others are utterly human. Plus, each character's personality lends them different ways of dealing with the world. Dream shows this multiple times, such as not punishing a creature which dominates others dreams to create a 'nest' because it is simply acting in its own nature. Death never (well, almost never) interferes with the natural demises of anything, no matter how much she likes the individual and Destiny knows when catastrophic events will occur, and will only summon the others for a meeting about said catastrophes if his book says he does.

 

* Used often in ''[[Aeon Natum Engel]]'', especially with the Migou and their greater view of the universe.

* In ''[[The Return (fanfic)|The Return]]'' despite many claims of just being "simple creatures," Succubae relationships and morality is so complex it is no wonder that they view humans as bordering on [[Exclusively Evil]], and vice-versa.

* In ''[[Adventures of the Galaxy Rangers|Galaxy Rangers]]'' fanfics, this sometimes shows up with Shane and Niko, as they outwardly appear human, but were raised in very different environments from Earth. Less common with Niko, as the Circle of Thought and Ariel were decent folk, albeit with different taboos and ideas as they're a race of [[Technical Pacifist]] psychics who merely wish to be left alone. It's ''much'' more prominent in Shane's case, as he was the product of a brutal [[Training from Hell]] [[Super Soldier]] program.

* NewChaos from ''[[The Open Door]]''. What [[Even Evil Has Standards|standards]] they appear to have, such as a nigh-[[The Fettered|Fettered]] absolute devotion to the protection of children and punishment of their abusers, is contrasted with horrifically anarcho-libertarian laws or lack thereof, near-[[The Unfettered|Unfettered]] approach to combat and a variety of what are humanly seen as atrocities. The sheer contrast in their extremes of behaviour has driven people both in the audience and [[In-Universe]] to blanket label them as evil.

* In the ''[[Invader Zim]]'' fic "[[In Short Supply]]," the Irkens' concept of religion is notably odd. Most are Agnostic or Atheist; some are Narcissists, which mean that they see ''themselves'' as the highest moral authority; others are Firmamentalists, who worship space (which helps them justify conquering other planets). A few Irkens, however, cling to their oldest religion, Slarkism. In this religion, the water-god Slark demanded that Irkens be virtuous, and since virtue is painful, he considers pain and even suicide holy acts; this is called Virtuous Slarkism. However, an ancient Tallest named Zim ([[Name's the Same|not that one]]) eventually rebelled and started a [[Religion of Evil]] called Zimist Slarkism, which teaches that evil is better since the evil don't feel pain. Even more oddly, the two Slarkist denominations consider themselves allies, in part because tolerance is Virtuous and insolent indifference to others' beliefs is Zimist.

* The main characters in ''[[My Immortal]]'' seem to have a belief system based entirely on the concept of "goffic" = good and "preppy" = bad. Apparently, no other moral considerations exist. Killing and torture are perfectly acceptable, but shopping at Abercrombie & Fitch is a mortal sin. Tara has ([[Poe's Law|or]] [[Troll Fic|pretends to have]]) the same views.

* In The [[Mega Crossover]] [[Fanfic|fan]][[Web Comic|comic]] ''[[Roommates 2007|Roommates]]'' Jareth's [[Super-Powered Evil Side|dark side]] thinks in [[Trope]] and measures moral questions in the terms of the [[Theory of Narrative Causality]]. He would kill if that was dramatically appropriate in the story and in character for his current archetype, maybe feel remorse about the life lost, but would think and feel that that was the right thing to do.<ref>(He pushed his best friend off the rooftop because he refused to be the "Hero" (ended up as one anyway) and Jareth was the "Villain" that time and that's what villains do)</ref> To clarify he seems to have some idea about what humans call "good" or "bad" but he thinks of them as [[Trope|storytelling devices]] not morality and as such doesn't value them over any other [[Trope]]. Also his father seems to have similar notions so maybe this is the standard Blue and Orange for [[The Fair Folk]] in the series.

* ''[[Shards of Memory]]'', {{spoiler|Shinryu}}. When Firion gives him a [[What the Hell, Hero?]], his replies amounts to a very condescending "oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you too are a god who has existed for eons and thus are fit to judge my actions."

{{quote|Dobby blinked a couple of times, very visibly startled, then said “Ooooh! Youse is holdses on,” selected a large adjustable wrench, and vanished with a pop; a few moments later he was back, brandishing the wrench and saying, “Yes, Dobby is has helped the noxious Mr Filch go to sleeps, now wees is goes and checkses out the Come-And-Go-Room!”}}

 

* The Halloween people from ''[[The Nightmare Before Christmas]]''. They scare children for a living, but are not malicious and do it because [[Punch Clock Villain|it's their job]] and they enjoy it. Interestingly, they (including Jack) [[Evil Cannot Comprehend Good|can't comprehend]] the basics of Christmas, and when they try to replicate it ... well, things [[Go Horribly Wrong]].

{{quote|"Life's no fun without a good scare."}}

** It's debatable how canon this is (for obvious reasons), but in the ''[[Kingdom Hearts]]'' series, Jack tends to think of new experiences (such as the Heartless) in terms of how he can repurpose them into new Halloween surprises, but also tends to become quite disillusioned with them if it should ever come to light that it can actually cause people harm ([[Evil Is Not a Toy|such as, again, the Heartless]]).

* The [[Starfish Aliens|Mi-Go]] from the 2011 [[Adaptation Expansion|adaptation]] of ''[[Lovecraft on Film|The Whisperer In Darkness]]'' are a classic example, very much in line with what Lovecraft originally had in mind. {{spoiler|After Wilmarth, the protagonist, thwarts their plan to open a [[Our Wormholes Are Different|mystical portal]] from Yuggoth (read: Pluto) to Earth, and then [[Heroic Sacrifice|crashes a plane]] into the ritual site for good measure, they actually go out of their way to save his brain, place it into [[Brain In a Jar|one of their cylinders]] and take him around the cosmos on incredible adventures. Even though he had foiled a plan that had likely been in the works for several centuries}}. Their minds work very differently, it seems. They're also repeatedly stated to be [[Consummate Liar]]s. Another, earlier scene has {{spoiler|Wilmarth stumble into one that was on its way to the ritual. The Mi-Go simply kicks Wilmarth out of its way and pays no more attention to him, nor does it inform its buddies of his presence. Had it done so, the ritual would not have been foiled in the first place}}.

* The Firstborn, the aliens who built the monoliths from ''[[2001: A Space Odyssey]]''. The way the books put it:

'''Leek:''' You noticed them, and they noticed that you noticed them. }}

 

* [[The Fair Folk]] often are shown as practicing this, especially in modern (or very old) renditions. Good examples are found in the works of [[Neil Gaiman]] (such as ''[[The Sandman]]'' or ''[[The Books of Magic]]'') and ''[[Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell]]''.

** The Sidhe of ''[[The Dresden Files]]'' seem to fall into this category, though one went mad because she began to comprehend human pain (and this in turn led her alien mind to try and create a global catastrophe to stop the pain).

*** For that matter, something similar came up in ''[[Good Omens]]'', from Crowley: "It can't be a cosmic chess game, it has to be just very complicated game of Solitaire. If we could understand we wouldn't be us."

** The Aelfinn and Eelfin ("snakes" and "foxes") in ''[[The Wheel of Time]]'' series, another variation of [[Fair Folk]], are described like this: not even really evil, but so alien that they might as well be.

* The aliens in ''[[Childhood's End]]''. Both the Overlords ''and'' the {{spoiler|Overmind}}.

* Merlin, in ''[[That Hideous Strength]]'' provides [[Deliberate Values Dissonance]] to the post-Roman Christians with his at-times alien morality system. In one scene, Merlin believes Jane should be executed because she has unknowingly prevented the birth of a saint—by using ''birth control''. Not ''abortion,'' you understand: ''birth control''. He says outright that she is worse than Balinus, the hot-tempered Knight of the Round Table, who accidentally killed his brother in heat of battle and so started a feud that played into the downfall of Camelot. In his essay [http://scientificintegrity.blogspot.com/2010/04/religion-and-rocketry-by-cs-lewis.html "Religion and Rocketry,"] Lewis touched on this trope by discussing the theological problems that would crop up if we found aliens. Their system of morality might be so incomprehensible to us that we would mistake them for evil.

* The Third Men in ''[[Last and First Men]]'' are essentially a [[Planet of Hats|species of esthetes]]. At one point their entire world was dominated by an empire based on ''music.'' Their final civilization was obsessed with biological manipulation: one faction used to breed ever more powerful diseases and parasites on the grounds that when a "higher" lifeform is slain by a virus, it has a certain ironic beauty.

* [[Robert A. Heinlein]] was particularly well known for his ... interesting takes on morality throughout his works.

*** That could be why the main character in the story who was raised on Mars breaks into a prison, uses his abilities to end the existence of the worst offenders, and then erases the bars in a similar fashion, thus setting everyone else free. He just eliminates anything that he thinks should not exist, including certain people.

*** A few other tidbits: they can't fathom hate or dislike anyone or thing with more than a "mild distaste," this is because they devote so much time to understanding things that they can never truly hate it. Also, they see no wrong in obliterating planetary civilizations if, after centuries of contemplation, they decide it necessary, as they did with the fifth planet in our solar system. No, not Jupiter, the planet that is now ''the asteroid belt''.

** In ''[[Space Cadet (novel)|Space Cadet]]'', eating in public is the big taboo on Venus.

** In ''[[Glory Road (novel)|Glory Road]]'' Star is shocked to find out that sex is a sellable commodity in Oscar's reality. In her world, a woman's sexuality is considered an integral part of her spiritual existence and it can not be bought and sold, only partaken of as a gift of the woman.

* ''[[Catch-22]]'': Milo Minderbinder. It's not just that he believes anything that promulgates capitalism to be good. It's that he has ''absolutely no comprehension'' of how anything that promulgates capitalism could ''possibly'' be bad.

* This is basically the way the [[Cosmic Horror]]s of [[H.P. Lovecraft]]'s [[Cthulhu Mythos]] work. They seem like horrific demons, but they're simply so far beyond human comprehension that our concepts of good and evil cannot be applied to them. Works based on Lovecraft's universe [[Flanderization|Flanderize]] Nyarlathotep into an aversion, as someone who can operate on a human level and shows clear sadistic tendencies.

* The Wess'har in Karen Traviss' ''Wess'har War'' series who have no concept of a "grey area," have no interest in the concept of motivation and have two different concepts of sex, sex and ''ouran'', both of which to human eyes look like...sex. Also no concept of embarrassment. They are also natural "small c" communists with no need for a compelling authority.

* In [[Gordon R. Dickson]]'s ''The Alien Way'', there's a race with a strange "honor" code, which considers perfectly honorable to kill your mates, friends and even family members, if it helps you to gain power or opportunities to spread your genes, and the closer you are to the person killed, the more honorable the act.

* Shows up in [[Mark Twain]]'s ''The Mysterious Stranger''. A central plot point is that angels have no concepts of good and evil because they have no original sin. Or more clearly, angels can't do right or wrong, because such ideas aren't in their nature - [[Kick the Dog|they can do things humans consider wrong]], but angels are pretty much indifferent. It ends up being fairly creepy.

** It is actually more accurate to say that the angels have never eaten from the tree of knowledge, as Adam and Eve did. Therefore they can commit sins the way humans do, but have no knowledge of what sin means and thus it is meaningless to them. It may make human morality a fair example of [[Blessed with Suck]].

* Human morality is very strange to treecats in the ''[[Honor Harrington]]'' series. For one thing, the 'cats consider a desire for physical privacy to be just plain ''weird''. They're telepaths, so it makes sense. Also, they have a code for dealing with anyone who actually manages to make an enemy of them that does as follows: There are two types of enemies; those that have been properly dealt with, and those that are still alive. Fortunately, they're a laid-back species.

* {{spoiler|The Enigma Race}} in ''[[The Lost Fleet]]'' demonstrate hints of this.

* The [[Intelligent Gerbil|Lodgeless]] [[Panthera Awesome|Ones]] in Marti Steussy's ''Forest of the Night'': Building a permanent shelter is a no-no. Calling someone's autobiography "boring," or accusing them of embellishing it, is fighting words. Letting your disabled child starve to death because he can't hunt is unfortunate, but not morally wrong. {{spoiler|[[Eats Babies|Eating your child's corpse]]? At least the scavengers didn't get him.}}

* In [[Harry Harrison]]'s ''The Jupiter Plague'' (AKA ''Plague from Space''), a strike team breaks into the quarantined spaceship and finds the recordings of the mission on Jupiter. They find out that the crew discovered an alien race living on the solid core of the planet. Unlike humans, the "Jovians" use biotechnology. They initially offer to talk to the humans but then proceed to slaughter most of the crew in increasingly gruesome ways. Their latest act is sending the human ship back to Earth with a genetically-engineered virus that easily jumps species and is 100% fatal. It doesn't take long for the protagonist to figure out why they behave this way. Apparently, {{spoiler|the Jovians are a [[Hive Mind]] species, where each being is but a cell in a larger organism. As such, they consider humans to be the same way, and all their murders are merely studies. After all, what's killing a few cells to a giant organism?}} It is not revealed if the Jovians finally realize the error of their ways or not. They do {{spoiler|provide humanity with a cure after they complete their study, though}}.

* In ''None But Man'' this is the very heart of conflict between the humans and Moldaug. While humanity judges every action based on whether it is Right or Wrong, the Moldaug judge their decisions based on whether it is Respectable or Not Respectable. Earth's government is willing to capitulate completely to avoid a war, but the sheer lack of Respectability and hints of even worse acts to come from such an action would compel the Moldaug to destroy humanity.

* In ''[[A Dirge for Prester John]]'' John's moral standards are perverse and inexplicable to the people of Pentexore, as are their moral standards to him.

 

* [[Anti-Villain]] Morgaine in the ''[[Doctor Who]]'' story "[[Doctor Who/Recap/S26/E01 Battlefield|Battlefield]]" thinks nothing of slaughtering people who tick her off, but {{spoiler|1=insists on paying for a round of drinks that her son ordered in. She pays for them, by the way, by ''curing the barmaid's blindness''. She also won't fight in graveyards as to not dishonor the dead. She also held a ceremony honouring said dead -- dead people on a planet she cared nothing of. They died in battle = They deserve honour.}}

** The Doctor himself sometimes borders on this, thinking almost nothing of taking his friends to dangerous places all the time.

* An early episode of ''Enterprise'' had the crew being continually attacked by a mystery ship for no apparent reason. T'Pol points out that not every species out there necessarily behaves in a way that would make sense to humans. They never find out what the aliens' motivation was, but they did successfully test their new weapons on them.

* ''[[The Addams Family]]'' and ''[[The Munsters]]'' live this trope, particularly the Addamses.

* Witness the huge discussion on the [[Angel/Headscratchers|Headscratchers page]] for ''[[Angel]]'' over what Jasmine's hypothetical "alignment" was. Sure, she brings total peace and happiness to the world, but she eats people (but usually no more than one or two a day, far fewer than would be killed by wars and crimes her presence would prevent), and people have no choice but to love and adore her. Can any human definition of "good" or "evil" really describe her? (That was rhetorical, by the way)

** Present in an early episode, "Bachelor Party", with a family of Ano-Movic. Ano-Movic demons are a very peaceful race—formerly a violent race of nomadic demons, they blended into Western Society and gave up their more gruesome traditions. On the flip side, not all of their old customs have been abandoned—the family seen in the episode are shown discussing the wedding plans just as easily as they discuss the ritualistic eating of the former spouse's brains. While this sounds gruesome, to the Ano-Movics, it is a gesture of love—their belief is that by eating the brains of the old spouse of their wedded-to-be prior to the wedding, the new spouse will incorporate all of the love and affection from the previous relationship into their new marriage.

** Sheldon has a "this is fact" and "this is not fact" mindset. Usually, the way he sees things, "it is a fact" that he is intellectually superior, therefore deserving of more praise and acknowledgement. Similarly, upon seeing Penny in financial hardship, he recognised the fact that he had more money than he needed, whereas Penny needed more money than she had, and therefore the right thing to do was lend her money.

 

* Roxanne of ''[[Candorville]]'' [[Bad Is Good and Good Is Bad|views villains as heroic and vice versa]], but there are usually qualifiers for it—for instance, she views eating meat as immoral, but wearing fur as a way of eternally preserving an animal's beauty. That said, with the exception of her own mother, ''nobody'' in the comic thinks this gives her a pass for [[It's All About Me|her behavior]]. [[Even Evil Has Standards|Even multiple murderers think she's scum]].

 

 

* The [[Professional Wrestling]] business, by and large seems to run on this trope, particularly when it comes to how the main stream audiences perceives it. What may seem amoral to an average American may be perfectly nominal to a [[Triple H]] or an [[The Undertaker|Undertaker]], Or a [[ECW|Raven]], or a [[Ric Flair]], or a [[Jeff Hardy]] and so on.

** [[Stone Cold Steve Austin]] seems to be the personification of this trope. It doesn't matter what his moral center of gravity is, he's still a [[Badass]] fan favorite.

 

* ''[[Old World of Darkness]]''. There's a detailed description of a great many moralities of [[Vampire: The Masquerade|vampires]] in a supplement named Chaining The Beast. One believes that suffering is good and if you deprive someone of it you might as well kill them because they won't be strong enough to face life. Another believes that everything must change or die and thus encouraging change is the only good thing you can do.

** Worth noting: most characters (including non-vampires) in ''[[Vampire: The Masquerade]]'' have three Virtues—Conscience, Self-Control and Courage. On the alternate paths of Morality, vampires often switch out Conscience and Self-Control with Conviction and Instinct. Not only do they no longer see virtue in human terms, they don't see it in ''other supernaturals' terms''. (Old world mechanics were not designed to work across venues.)

*** [[Hunter: The Vigil|Hunters]] can inflict this on ''themselves'' with the optional rules for setting up a hunter's code.

*** [[Promethean: The Created|Prometheans]] round it out by having a nearly identical morality scale to humans... if they raise it that high. Being homunculi they start out with or can develop some very ''weird'' thought processes. Considering their goal is to become human, it's understandable.

** In the fanlines, [[Genius: The Transgression|Geniuses]] have Obligation, which is more along the lines of how in-tune they are with the rest of humanity. The lower it dips, or the more powerful the Genius gets, the more likely they are to drift toward Blue and Orange Morality. When that happens, they tend to start viewing people more as collections of spare parts.

* In ''[[Exalted]]'', [[The Fair Folk]] fall into this; at base, the unshaped (and many shaped) raksha simply have trouble comprehending that anyone else is a separate being that might not care about their agenda, and they don't see why humans are so afraid of the chaotic madness of the Wyld. Those who do comprehend humanity still tend to subscribe to alien (read: soul-eatingly dangerous) morality, but [[My Species Doth Protest Too Much|there are exceptions.]] ''Graceful Wicked Masques'' puts it best:

* The [[One-Gender Race|aurads]], in the third-party [[Dungeons & Dragons|D&D 3e]] setting ''Oathbound'', "can accept betrayal if it is explained eloquently, but might take issue at an excellent gift presented without proper ceremony."

* In the [[Dungeons & Dragons]] ''[[Mystara]]'' campaign setting, the Immortal (D&D's functional equivalent of AD&D's gods) Nyx was definitely this. All the other Immortals of Entropy were just straightforwardly evil. Nyx, on the other hand, loved every living thing in the universe as if they were her own children. It's just that she believed that living things were children who ought to be helped to mature into undead. She wanted to transform the world into one in which the undead would dominate the living. She wasn't evil in the sense of wanting to harm anyone; she genuinely believed that the world would be a better place if more people became vampires, liches, ghosts, or what have you, and if those undead beings ruled the world.

 

* ''[[Cyrano De Bergerac]]'': The play show us an strange example of humans with this type of morality: The [[Proud Warrior Race Guy|Gascons]] believe that ''"Good"'' is to be [[Youth Is Wasted on the Dumb|crack – brained]] [[Fearless Fool|and brave]], [[Impoverished Patrician|that to be poor is motive of pride,]] [[Martyrdom Culture|their autodestructive tendencies are not only tolerated but encouraged]], [[Jerkass|to treat others like crap is tolerable while they are not]] [[Of the People|Gascons]] [[Death Seeker|and to die in battle is the best destiny you can aspire]]. ''"Evil"'' is to [[Ambition Is Evil|try to get ahead on life]] [[Screw the Rules, I Have Connections|by connections]] and [[False Friend|alliances]] with [[Deadly Decadent Court|powerful people]], and [[The Dandy|display your riches in public]] [[Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking|is shameful]] to the point of being declared a [[No True Scotsman|No True Gascon]]. Most of all, [[Disproportionate Retribution]] and [[Disproportionate Reward]] are completely normal conducts.

 

* It is possible for the player to be this in any game that includes a morality system, if the player makes choices based on a line of reasoning besides good or evil. Of course, many games punish you for not being either all the way good or evil (for example, ''[[Infamous (video game series)|In Famous]]''), or puts you in [[True Neutral|in the middle path]].

* The [[Eldritch Abomination|Reapers]] of ''[[Mass Effect]]'' claim to have good reasons for annihilating all advanced species in the galaxy on a regular basis. In ''[[Mass Effect 3]]'', they largely attempt to pass off their cyclical process of destruction as a form of salvation and protection. {{spoiler|Their primary directive is to prevent a technological singularity which in which they fear that synthetically created life will completely destroy organic life. To prevent this, they direct technological development at a pace they deem acceptable and then "reap" major civilizations at a specific point of development which is usually indicated by wars between machines and organics (ie. The Geth Morning War or the Prothean Metacon War. Choice civilizations are left untouched to ensure that life continues while the reaped civilizations are given a form of commemoration through having their genetic materials preserved in the new generation of Reapers.}}

* Capsuleer motives are seen as this by planet-dwellers in ''[[EVE Online]]''. It doesn't help that even among the various capsuleer factions there's a general theme of sociopathy with rules unique to each group.

 

* Sam Starfall of ''[[Freefall]]'' seems to fall into this. He explains that, coming from a race of scavengers, morality on his homeworld is incompatible with that of human society—stealing, for example, is seen as an act of bravery necessary to help your family survive, especially if done from a stronger scavenger or a predator. But at the same time, he ''revels'' in breaking the law just for the thrill of it, so he may just be using the scavenger morality thing as an excuse.

** [http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff3000/fc02998.htm Strip #2998]: "Until then, I'll just have to accept I'm at that socially awkward point between nemeses."

** There's also Elan's attempt to make a decision based on the principles of [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0068.html pure Law and Chaos]:

{{quote|'''Modron:''' 100101010100010101101011!<ref>This is binary gibberish. In ASCII it would be:"_-k"</ref>

* K'seliss from ''[[Goblins]]'' has no qualms about killing or eating people, but fighting against animated objects? That would just be sick!

** Specifically, he sees no difference between killing, eating, and mating. Therefore, fighting something inedible is in fact a form of sexual deviancy to him.

** Mistress Sixx is surprised at Laura's outrage at being drugged, put in bondage and forced to participate in sexual acts, since Laura had previously enjoyed participating in consentual sexual acts without bondage or drugs - not recognizing at least three differences between those cases. Apparently the author was called out on that by the readership, and was forced to make an [[Author's Saving Throw]] with Sixx apologizing for her inconsideration.

* Demons in ''[[Wapsi Square]]'' have a strict set of rules which they follow, but those rules don't match up with our ideas of right and wrong. They even specifically mentioned that evil is a human concept, not a demon one.

** Raven's mother (sometimes called Chaos, other times called Pandora) wants to help her son out, so she begins to instigate many magical incidents, such as granting powers to unaware people leading to near-disasters when they unwittingly use them.

 

* The Elders in ''[[New York Magician]]''. They don't like people being able to see them.

{{quote|'''Michel:''' Wait, you're saying you had me kidnapped, knocked out, tied up in a basement and dropped here on this bench because you wanted me to know how it feels when I turn to you on the fucking subway and say "hi"?}}

* Mercenaries in various stories of the ''[[Union Series]]''. It's not about who commits massive war crimes or who plays knight in shining armor, it's more along the lines of being loyal to the original credit line versus switching sides for better pay.

* Most non-humans in [[Tales of MU]], most notably mermaids, demons, and dragons, who each have no problems eating humans. For example: {{spoiler|Ionia, a mermaid, killed another student because she was in water, making her prey. In retaliation Vice-Chancellor Embries, a greater Dragon, devoured her and enchanted the one witness so she couldn't tell anyone.}}

 

* Marceline the Vampire Queen in ''[[Adventure Time]]'' openly acknowledges this, stating "I'm not mean, I'm [[Really Seven Hundred Years Old|a thousand years old]], and [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GXrwi3GLVU I just lost track of my moral code".] It mostly explains how she can be an example of [[Dark Is Not Evil]] while still being [[Nightmare Fuel|really terrifying]] at times.

* Dinobot in ''[[Beast Wars]]'': "I have honour, but it is PREDACON honour!"

** The villains from Season 2's finale, {{spoiler|Changelings and their queen, Chrysalis, are 'evil' because to them, love is a '''food'''.}}

** It should be noted that while both of the above two examples merely provide a motive, they do ''not'' explain the outright sadism both exhibit. That seems to be a personality trait completely separate from this.

* It's a possible trait of inhabitants of the Spirit World in ''[[Avatar: The Last Airbender]]''. Avatar Yangchen, the previous Air Nomadic Avatar, mentions to Aang that many Air Nomads have detached themselves from all worldly concerns and achieved spiritual enlightenment, but the Avatar can never do it because it's the Avatar's job to be the bridge between the physical world and the spiritual world, which requires them to be a part of the world they're protecting. It's likely the Avatar was created so a powerful spiritual being could comprehend humanity and the concerns of the physical world, thus not have blue and orange morality as a result of their uninvolvement.

 

* Many animals can be said to have Blue and Orange Morality, if you can apply a concept like Morality to them in the first place:

** Bonobos' morality is significantly different from that of humans' (though [[All Men Are Perverts|several]] [[All Women Are Lustful|humans]] have said we should follow their example once learning Bonobos resolve conflicts through sex.) The same goes for conflicts between family members, unless there is a chance of impregnation. Impregnation of close family members is the only reason bonobos will refuse sex. Since they never know who fathers are, this works out to 'no mothers with sons, or (maternal) siblings with each other.' Fullstop.

** [http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kQ_7GtE529M This bison].

* Many times, differing cultures have regarded each other as having this. A particularly good (or at least obvious) example is the old stereotype of [[Inscrutable Oriental|"inscrutable" Orientals]] and [[Eagle Land|"crazy" Western devils]].

* In the [[Church Militant|Islamic Republic of Iran]], homosexuality is [[Moral Event Horizon|punishable by death]]. Transsexuality, however, isn't only perfectly legal, [[wikipedia:Transsexuality in Iran|a sex change is even applicable for financial support by the state]].

* Within contemporary normative ethics are three major types of ethical theory: [[wikipedia:Consequentialism|Consequentialism]] (the morality of an action is dictated by its consequences), [[wikipedia:Deontological ethics|Deontological ethics]] (the morality of an action is based on duty) and [[wikipedia:Virtue ethics|virtue ethics]] (morality is based on virtues). The morality of a given decision will vary widely between them.

* James Bowman in ''Honor: A History'' traces the [[Honor Before Reason|honor codes]] of various times and civilizations and points out that they have universal similarities and striking differences. He also believes that the old style honor code is becoming Blue and Orange Morality to a number of modern people.

** An example he gives was of a [[Intrepid Reporter|Obviously Not Intrepid Reporter]] (whom he mercifully refuses to name) he heard of in Iraq who persuaded a female soldier to ride in his car to "use their chauvinism against them" so that no insurgents would shoot at him. The author points out that the honor code of Middle Eastern terrorists is not quite that of a [[Quintessential British Gentleman]], the differences are as complex as the similarities, and in general they would have no problems shooting at a female soldier.

* A literal example from Cold War days. Two power blocs that found it pretty difficult to understand each other's particular ethics and moralities - the capitalist and communist - were facing each other down over a divided German border for over forty years. When NATO had its annual manoevres and field exercises in West Germany, rather than risk offence to the Russians by denoting the "invading from the East" faction the Red Army, and making it obvious by calling the "defending from the West" side the white Army, the convention evolved that called the two sides in NATO wargames "Blue" and "Orange". A whole generation of NATO officers passed through their countries' armed forces thinking of the Warsaw Pact as "Orange Army" and their own side as "Blue Army"...

** Watergate is the perfect example: The Russians couldn't believe Nixon, a powerful and effective national leader, was really brought down by the kind of things that were a matter of course in the USSR.

* This argument is occasionally used to justify (although not necessarily ''defend'') questionable business practices—why should a corporation operate based on ethics similar to interpersonal relationships when it only exists to make money as efficiently as possible?

* The codes of conduct held by various established organised crime - as opposed to [[Obviously Evil]] street thug gangs - and esoteric groups can often be incomprehensible to "outsiders".

* This can occur quite frequently between atheists and theists, given that the two groups have entirely different precepts that they consider to be axiomatic (i.e. evident, obvious, requiring no proof).

* Jonathan Haidt's observations, which became the basis of ''The Righteous Mind'', highlighted this. In essence, there are moral foundations that can be classified under broad categories like care, fairness, liberty, loyalty, authority and sanctity. He asserts that not only do these impact one's individual moral framework, but that these can also lead to wildly differing views, beliefs, ideologies, etc. based on what foundations take precedence. As a consequence, this can help explain why Right and Left-leaning people can view the same thing in incredibly varied interpretations and why it's difficult for human beings to talk on the same page.

* Libertarians insist they do not fall under the traditional "right vs. left" scale or, if they do, it's secondary to their primary philosophy. The introduction of a libertarian vs. authoritarian axis has generally been accepted among those that try to quantify political views.

* Extremist groups can have an interesting variation of this. What is striking is not so much that the morality is ''alien'' but rather that it is off center. A typical thing might be to praise heroism, loyalty and other things that everyone (including their enemies) would praise but it will come out in a weird sort of way, so that their ability to commit atrocities "proves" their devotion. For instance both Himmler and Raoul Wallenberg would certainly have approved of being self-sacrificing and loyal to a cause. And both would have had [[Understatement|somewhat differing ideas]] as to what that meant.

 

{{reflist}}

[[Category:Cosmic Horror Tropes]]

[[Category:Hedonism Tropes]]

[[Category:Sturgeon's Tropes]]