Dump Stat: Difference between revisions

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== Games ==

=== Tabletop Games ===

=== [[Tabletop Games]] ===

==== Board Games ====

* Each stat in ''[[Arkham Horror]]'' is inversely linked with another. You can take a dump stat but it's always risky: lowering your Will gives you a better Fight but then just seeing the monster drives you insane, for example, and any stat could be called on in a random encounter. Luck of the draw and strategy factor heavily in the game. You can change stats at the start of every turn to adjust to the situation and having the right items can mitigate the risks of having a dump stat.

==== Card Games ====

* Attacks in ''[[Pokémon]]'' are divided into normal and special; usually a Pokemon naturally has one attack stat higher than the other. By teaching a Pokemon inclined towards Special attacks only Special moves, the Attack stat becomes completely useless. The opposite is also true; similarly, it's not usually worth it to boost either defensive stat for [[Glass Cannon]] Pokemon who have really bad HP, since they're not going to survive much of anything anyway, or the speed stat for a slow Pokemon, because once you're slower than any likely opponent, the stat doesn't matter anymore (and some attacks/sets benefit from a low Speed stat, like Gyro Ball, which gets more powerful the higher the targets speed is compared to yours, and Metal Burst, which doesn't even ''work'' unless you go last). There are, however, some movesets that take advantage of upping what would normally be a Dump Stat in order to barely survive what would normally be a lethal blow, or to better-utilize attacks that work well against an otherwise difficult opponent.

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** The Pokemon Shedinja essentially has ''three'' dump stats; since its HP is always set to 1, putting effort values in HP, Defense, or Special Defense<ref>unless you baton pass a substitute to it, then the last two have a use, though not a major one</ref> is altogether meaningless, not to mention its pitiful Special Attack.

** There was a Suicune build in the second generation that actually used Speed as a dump stat—even though it's normally the [[God Stat]]! You see, the vast majority of people dealt with powered up Pokemon by using Roar or Whirlwind, which normally goes last... but a [[Good Bad Bugs|bug]] made them fail if it went first, and if both pokemon used Roar or Whirlwind, only the slower one succeeded.

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* ''Space [[Munchkin]]'' parodies this trope with "Stat X" a mystery stat in addition to the 6 core D20 stats.

==== Tabletop RPG ====

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*** Also, HP can be bought independently of strength, or sold back for points to below what the character's strength would imply, and so is really only based on strength in name only. However, the core rules do recommend allowing HP to only be bought up +30% of its default ST-based value for "normal" human(oid) characters.

*** Some characters may wish to carry many heavy objects without getting encumbered, too (or maybe you just [[Doesn't Like Guns|don't like guns]]); strength also improves carrying capacity. However, there are also separate advantages for Lifting ST and Striking ST as well as HP.

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* The ''D.C. Heroes Roleplaying Game'' had three categories of stats (physical stats - Reflex, Strength, and Body; mental stats - Intelligence, Will, and Mind; and spiritual stats - Influence, Aura, and Spirit) and three types of stats (an action stat that determined how well you "maneuver" in that category, including making and avoiding attacks; an effect stat that determined how powerful you were in that category, including the damage of your attacks; and a resistance stat that determined how durable you were in that category, including how hard you were to hurt and how much damage you could take). Having a low action stat made you a sitting duck to attacks in that category. Having a low resistance stat meant that you were a pushover if you ever got hit by an attack in that category. Having a low effect stat meant that if you chose to make an attack in that category, it wouldn't do much damage unless you had a high action stat and rolled well. Anyone could make physical attacks (it's called a punch). Only telepaths or people drawn into mental combat by a telepath could make mental attacks. There was no way to make a spiritual attack without using magical powers (which would have their own rating, which could be linked to your Aura stat, but didn't have to be). Not a lot of characters had high scores in Aura, the spiritual effect stat.

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* ''[[Mutants and Masterminds]]'' and ''DC Adventures'' (the 3rd edition of the game) feature this for Presence, which only has the effect of adding bonuses to three solitary Skills, all of which can be bought up for cheaper than spending points in Presence. It was already a weaker option in the 2nd Edition, and the changes in the 3rd Edition made it even worse. The Dexterity stat can also become a Dump Stat at times, as anyone who isn't a long-range fighter can just take a "0".

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* INT in ''[[Dragon Quest]]''. Yes, it's useful in the early levels, but it suffers serious decay since it does not determine magic damage. (Magic damage is fixed and then multiplied by elemental resistance.) INT and its cousin, VIT, are still useful, mind: They do raise HP and MP. But after a while, that's irrelevant.

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* In ''[[Eon]]'', the attribute Bildning, roughly translated to Education, is often treated as a dumpstat. Education shows how much general knowledge a character has about the world and things in it, and players make a check in case they want to see if their character knows something about the town they're in, what races are common in the country, and other miscellaneous stuff. The thing is, pretty much everything you get to know by making a check against Education, can also be revealed by making a check against an appropriate skill, like History or Cultural Knowledge. These skills are often more specialized, granted, but at the same time they provide more in-depth information than Education. Besides, most classes that are expected to have a high score in Education also have most of these additional skills. Also, if there's anything worth knowing about a town, odds are a NPC is willing to share some knowledge, or one of the PC's have already been there before.

=== Video Games ===

=== [[Video Games]] ===

* In the [[Might and Magic]] games, intelligence has no effect on classes lacking elemental spellcasting abilities, while personality is useless for classes that can't cast self magic. Very few classes make actual use of both.

* Any game with a "luck" or "charisma" stat will most likely be a dump stat, for most characters. ''[[Final Fantasy XI]]'', for instance, subverts this in the case of the bard and beastmaster, charisma is central to ''[[Ogre Battle]]'', and in ''[[Fire Emblem]]'', luck is the only stat that provides critical avoid (prevention of critical attacks), which is very useful in a game where one critical hit can kill off a character permanently.

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* For a long time, moxie became a bit of a dump stat in ''[[Kingdom of Loathing]]'', to the degree that having a high level of it would make the final boss battle exponentially harder, with the main attractiveness of the moxie classes (the special Moxious Maneuver) being less than useless. This disparity has since been modified. A bit.

* To this day, no one has figured out what Combat Shooting does in the PC port of ''[[Wasteland (video game)|Wasteland]]''. It's one of the most attractive point sinks to first-time players, and yet it might well be good for '''absolutely nothing.''' (On other platforms, it simply doesn't exist.)

=== '''Unsorted''' ===

* The ''[[Elder Scrolls]]'' series has a few, though players focusing on roleplaying can find uses for many of the stats listed below.

** Personality in ''[[Oblivion]]'': there are ways to boost the stat for the infrequent few seconds you need it, and you typically only need it for a few seconds because time freezes when you start a conversation.

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** In Oblivion, your Luck doesn't affect the loot from containers, but instead gives boosts to nearly all of your skills, meaning putting points into it helps with pretty much everything. It has a minor impact on a couple other things in the game, but the skill increase is by far the most useful, making it an incredibly useful stat when you know what it does, and a likely Dump Stat for people who don't. [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Luck See here for details.]

** In ''[[The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim|Skyrim]]'', they've gotten rid of stats all together. Everything boils down to Health, Magic, and Fatigue. There are, however, ''dump-skills'' that would be inefficient to waste perk points on; Lockpicking and Speechcraft work just fine without putting any perk points into them or artificially trying to raise them.

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* In the doujin game ''[[Touhou Labyrinth]]'', points put into stat and skill advancement, equipment enhancements to them, and points from gaining experience levels all act as a percentage multiplier to the base score. Thus it's hard to avoid emphasizing a character's initial strengths and weaknesses. Beyond that, every character (and monster) has one common dump stat: due to an unfixable bug in the game engine, ''it is impossible to avoid attacks'', making Evasion completely useless (This is quite bizarre, as basic Touhou gameplay is '''built''' on dodging).

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* ''Space [[Munchkin]]'' parodies this trope with "Stat X" a mystery stat in addition to the 6 core D20 stats.

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* Each stat in ''[[Arkham Horror]]'' is inversely linked with another. You can take a dump stat but it's always risky: lowering your Will gives you a better Fight but then just seeing the monster drives you insane, for example, and any stat could be called on in a random encounter. Luck of the draw and strategy factor heavily in the game. You can change stats at the start of every turn to adjust to the situation and having the right items can mitigate the risks of having a dump stat.

⚫

* The ''D.C. Heroes Roleplaying Game'' had three categories of stats (physical stats - Reflex, Strength, and Body; mental stats - Intelligence, Will, and Mind; and spiritual stats - Influence, Aura, and Spirit) and three types of stats (an action stat that determined how well you "maneuver" in that category, including making and avoiding attacks; an effect stat that determined how powerful you were in that category, including the damage of your attacks; and a resistance stat that determined how durable you were in that category, including how hard you were to hurt and how much damage you could take). Having a low action stat made you a sitting duck to attacks in that category. Having a low resistance stat meant that you were a pushover if you ever got hit by an attack in that category. Having a low effect stat meant that if you chose to make an attack in that category, it wouldn't do much damage unless you had a high action stat and rolled well. Anyone could make physical attacks (it's called a punch). Only telepaths or people drawn into mental combat by a telepath could make mental attacks. There was no way to make a spiritual attack without using magical powers (which would have their own rating, which could be linked to your Aura stat, but didn't have to be). Not a lot of characters had high scores in Aura, the spiritual effect stat.

⚫

* In the doujin game ''[[Labyrinth ~~of Touhou~~]]'', points put into stat and skill advancement, equipment enhancements to them, and points from gaining experience levels all act as a percentage multiplier to the base score. Thus it's hard to avoid emphasizing a character's initial strengths and weaknesses. Beyond that, every character (and monster) has one common dump stat: due to an unfixable bug in the game engine, ''it is impossible to avoid attacks'', making Evasion completely useless (This is quite bizarre, as basic Touhou gameplay is '''built''' on dodging).

** To be fair, it works to your advantage as enemies can't dodge either. And no one wants an uber buffed Master Spark to miss.

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* ''[[Mutants and Masterminds]]'' and ''DC Adventures'' (the 3rd edition of the game) feature this for Presence, which only has the effect of adding bonuses to three solitary Skills, all of which can be bought up for cheaper than spending points in Presence. It was already a weaker option in the 2nd Edition, and the changes in the 3rd Edition made it even worse. The Dexterity stat can also become a Dump Stat at times, as anyone who isn't a long-range fighter can just take a "0".

⚫

* INT in ''[[Dragon Quest]]''. Yes, it's useful in the early levels, but it suffers serious decay since it does not determine magic damage. (Magic damage is fixed and then multiplied by elemental resistance.) INT and its cousin, VIT, are still useful, mind: They do raise HP and MP. But after a while, that's irrelevant.

* The Charisma and Wisdom scores are typically dump stats in [[Baldur's Gate]] II. Unless you're playing as a Cleric, Wisdom is only useful for the Wish spell, and even then you can just get a character with high wisdom to cast it. As for Charisma, you get a ring after completing one of the first quests in the city which boosts your Charisma score to 18 when wearing it.

* The defense stat in the ''[[Mario & Luigi]]'' games is pretty much useless, since you can dodge ''every single attack'' in the game and none of them are that hard to dodge (except for {{spoiler|the Elder Shroob Princess' spinning tentacle attack}} in [[Mario & Luigi: Partners In Time|the second game]]), spending your bonus at level-up on the defense stat or getting accessories and clothes that increase your defense instead of your attack is a waste.

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*** It is also very dangerous to have low intellect if you don't know how to find every single book to effectively raise your skills, and in ''Fallout 3'' and ''New Vegas'' without DLC then your Max Level is way too low to get full skills in everything. Unless you just want to focus on something specific.

** Charisma is surprisingly useful in ''[[Fallout 2]].'' as it [[Arbitrary Headcount Limit|determines how large your party can be]]. Specifically, you can have a number of squaddies equal to half your Charisma score, rounded down, meaning a [[Player Character|Chosen One]] with 1 Charisma can't even convince one person to travel with him, while a player with 10 Charisma will have a veritable army. Since followers don't change the amount of experience you receive, they make the game a ''lot'' easier. [[Cloudcuckoolander|Sulik]], [[Genius Bruiser|Marcus]], and [[Retired Badass|Cassidy]] are each a force to be reckoned with.

** ''Fallout 2'' has a different Dump Stat, that may come across as surprising: Endurance. Most of the skills it modifies can be increased by books or quests. The resistances it provides are rarely relevant (and reloading the game is always an option) and items exist to erase any effect that Endurance resist. It influences [[Hit Points]], but so does Strength (albeit to a lesser degree) and there's enough [[Powered Armor|good armor]] laying around that you're rarely going to take damage that isn't a freak [[One-Hit Kill]] critical, anyway.

** ''[[Fallout 2]]'' has a different Dump Stat, that may come across as surprising: Endurance. Most of the skills it modifies can be increased by books or quests. The resistances it provides are rarely relevant (and reloading the game is always an option) and items exist to erase any effect that Endurance resist. It influences [[Hit Points]], but so does Strength (albeit to a lesser degree) and there's enough [[Powered Armor|good armor]] laying around that you're rarely going to take damage that isn't a freak [[One-Hit Kill]] critical, anyway.

⚫

* In ''[[Eon]]'', the attribute Bildning, roughly translated to Education, is often treated as a dumpstat. Education shows how much general knowledge a character has about the world and things in it, and players make a check in case they want to see if their character knows something about the town they're in, what races are common in the country, and other miscellaneous stuff. The thing is, pretty much everything you get to know by making a check against Education, can also be revealed by making a check against an appropriate skill, like History or Cultural Knowledge. These skills are often more specialized, granted, but at the same time they provide more in-depth information than Education. Besides, most classes that are expected to have a high score in Education also have most of these additional skills. Also, if there's anything worth knowing about a town, odds are a NPC is willing to share some knowledge, or one of the PC's have already been there before.

* In ''[[Final Fantasy X]]'', Luck is a dump stat, but not for the reason you'd expect. In terms of what it does for your characters, Luck is absolutely godly, combining the effects of two other stats (in a game that generally averts this trope) and increasing your critical hit rate to cap it all. The problem is that the developers realized this, and made the Luck stat ridiculously hard to actually put points in - while you'll have more of the spheres increasing every other stat than you know what to do with, you'll get a grand total of four spheres for Luck boosts over the course of the main game, and if you want more you'll have to kill one of the game's [[Bonus Boss]]es at the Monster Arena, for one each time. Most players just invest in the two other stats (Accuracy and Evade), since it's just so much easier to do.

* In the ''[[Inazuma Eleven]]'' series, Stamina is only useful early in the game. Characters will eventually hit a point where they'll seldom if ever become fatigued. Usually, you can stop caring about your team's Stamina entirely around halfway to 2/3rds through the story.