Guns in Church: Difference between revisions

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{{quote|'''A''': You can't bring guns in here! This is a church!

'''B''': And these are holy guns. Because [[Incredibly Lame Pun|they make a rather large hole-y]].~~|''[[Jackie Chan]]'s First Strike''}}~~

'''B''': And these are holy guns. Because [[Incredibly Lame Pun|they make a rather large hole-y]].

|''[[Jackie Chan]]'s First Strike''}}

Imagine this scenario for a bit: You're at a bank, and someone walks in, wielding a sword, gun, axe, or any other matter of established weapon (not a chair leg). The implications are far from good, unless of course, it happens in a video game. Obviously, the hero has just come to withdraw money from his account so he can purchase even bigger swords to walk into banks with.

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*** This is in large part because the enemy is usually not polite enough to let you go fetch your weapon should they happen to attack while you have your pants down.

* Plenty of players in a wide range of RPG games will take for granted that they can carry their swords/bows/guns/staffs of power anywhere without hindrance, including bars, temples and audiences with the king. Just have an NPC ask them to leave their weapons behind, and they'll react with fear, suspicion and outrage. Then they'll usually try to conceal the weapons somehow, or develop elaborate tactics to reach their weapons just in case the pacifistic church where no one is allowed to carry a weapon happens to be full of armed soldiers.

* [[Dungeons and Dragons]] traditionally doesn't even bother. In most settings you'll see palaces and places with [[Truce Zone]] rules having "check on entry" rule, but that's all. It doesn't help that few authors remember that there are differences between poleaxes and sidearms.

** [[Forgotten Realms]] has many political entities, from minor city-states to Cormyr, that exercise "peace bonding" tradition: carrying sidearms is allowed almost anywhere, but one must check each weapon on entry and have it tied to stay in the sheath (or wherever it's carried) with a ribbon using an elaborate knot. This doesn't hinder self-defense much, but gives the hot-headed a chance to remember where they are, or at least helps the local enforcement to see who had steel out and who didn't later (tying a non-trivial knot properly is not very fast and hard to on the run).

== [[Video Games]] ==

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*** Churches are in fact one of the places specifically mentioned by Texas state law as off limits for concealed carry.

*** Which is amusing to some, as in certain areas of Massachusetts, there are artifact laws requiring you to bring a gun to church (Danvers and Salem, I believe), that are unenforced, and in Vermont, you can carry a concealed firearm nearly anywhere, including ''inside a state building,'' but not public K-12 schools. Though that's more a matter of federal law.

** Admittedly played 110% terrifyingly straight in a Colorado church in 2007, when two people carrying ~~[[Guns~~ in Church]] prevented a third (who had apparently chained the other doors shut and was in the only available escape path) from turning the house of worship into an abbatoir.

** Admittedly played 110% terrifyingly straight in a Colorado church in 2007, when two people carrying guns into Church prevented a third (who had apparently chained the other doors shut and was in the only available escape path) from turning the house of worship into an abbatoir.

** Ironically, there a few places in Europe where this approaches the truth - In Switzerland, you may sometimes find men doing their military service traveling by train and carrying their (unloaded) assault rifles with them. Civilians doing rifle shooting might also carry their assault rifles with them to the range. Still, you won't generally find anyone carrying guns publicly unless it's for the two reasons mentioned (policemen and border guards excepted).

* There's a joke about how Israel is the safest country in the world because it's the only place where a group of young men can walk into a bank carrying guns and be expected to wait in line (soldiers carry their guns with them when on leave).

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* [[Truth in Television]]. While churches have a very long history of being sanctuaries where you're not permitted to bring a holstered and concealed weapon, there have been been cases of police officers interrupting mass or sermons ''with drawn guns'' and not understanding what people are so upset about.

** The exact phrase used for this sort of situation (at least in Texas) is ".22s for Jesus". Of course we all know that the Lord would prefer to [[Black Lagoon|use a Jericho]], but that gets into a completely different debate all together.

** Louisiana recently passed a law allowing people to carry firearms in church. It prompted a lot of snarky comments.

** Louisiana recently passed a law allowing people to carry firearms in church. It prompted a lot of snarky comments. Generally from folks who hadn't read the law in question. Not only do you have to have a Concealed Handgun License, but you also have to have permission from the pastor/priest/rabbi/imam/etc, and to be a member of a volunteer security group for that church.

*** Generally from folks who hadn't read the law in question. Not only do you have to have a Concealed Handgun License, but you also have to have permission from the pastor/priest/rabbi/imam/etc, and to be a member of a volunteer security group for that church.

* [[Truth in Television]] in much of the US, where concealed-weapons permits are easy to obtain. May not count as this trope since they're...well...concealed.

** And even so, even those can be banned from certain places, such as schools, government buildings, and some private businesses.

** ~~And even so, even those can be banned from certain places, such as schools, government buildings, and some private businesses.~~ Interestingly enough, many gun shops in the US (which often contain an attached shooting range and offer gunsmith services so you can get your weapon fixed) will have a strict rule concerning concealed or holstered weapons: They STAY that way while you are in the store. If you want to have the gunsmith look at the weapon, or if you want to use the shooting range, you walk in with the weapon out where they can see it. And unloaded, until you actually ''step in'' to the shooting range. ~~This way [[Fridge Brilliance|you pulling the weapon out won't be misconstrued as you drawing a gun to rob the place or shoot someone.]]~~

** Interestingly enough, many gun shops in the US (which often contain an attached shooting range and offer gunsmith services so you can get your weapon fixed) will have a strict rule concerning concealed or holstered weapons: They STAY that way while you are in the store. If you want to have the gunsmith look at the weapon, or if you want to use the shooting range, you walk in with the weapon out where they can see it. And unloaded, until you actually ''step in'' to the shooting range.

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*** This way you pulling the weapon out won't be misconstrued as you drawing a gun to rob the place or shoot someone. And yes, there ''have'' been cases where a guy walked into a gun store (with customers in there) [[Too Dumb to Live|and tried to rob it]]. One had to ''[[What an Idiot!|walk past a police car]]'' to get to the gun shop...

*** Gun shop carry rules are also often in place to prevent incidents of negligent discharge in the "trying out holsters" situation (holsters come in all manner of designs to accommodate differing body types and carry positions. Quality holsters can be expensive, and carrying a 4lb chunk of metal on your body in a poorly-fitting holster can be very uncomfortable, making "try before you buy" a good idea in holster selection if you're not independently wealthy).

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*** And yes, there ''have'' been cases where a guy walked into a gun store (with customers in there) [[Too Dumb to Live|and tried to rob it]].

**** Even funnier in the [[Real Life]] version of the story: The robber had to ''[[What an Idiot!|walk past a police car]]'' to get to the gun shop. He was promptly ventilated.

** Depends highly on the state. Usually concealed carry states forbid bars and schools. The federal government also doesn't like it in most federal institutions, so Courthouses and such are off limits. The VA actively sends police officers to check on every admitted patient. Federal lands are a mixed bag, as hunting in national parks and national forests is a big debate.

*** A law was recently passed that applies all states' concealed carry licenses (or rather, the 49 for which such licenses exist) to be applicable in national parks. Since rifles and hunting-suitable large-caliber handguns are basically impossible to conceal, they can still only go through a national park while unloaded and locked away.

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** Michigan also happens to be one of the few states that require law-enforcement personnel to carry their sidearms even when off duty, ''except'' in church.

** In colonial times Massachusetts had a law ''requiring'' people to bring a gun to church. This was back in the days when the community could potentially get attacked by hostile natives during the sermon, so it was justified. It probably isn't on the books anymore, and even if it is, it certainly isn't enforced.

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* There are some places in [[Eagle Land|the States]] where guns are allowed in ''bars''.

* Despite being under Norwegian sovereignty, [[wikipedia:Svalbard|Svalbard]] allows everyone to carry rifles openly (although there are some rules on how to carry them in populated areas). Why? Because of [[Everything Is Worse With Bears|Polar Bears.]]

** To be fair, [[His Dark Materials|Svalbard polar bears are]] [[Proud Warrior Race Guy|Proud Warrior Race Guys]] clad head to toe in [[Meteoric Iron]], so...

*** Note also, that if they are going out of the settlement, they are not ''allowed'' to carry a rifle, but instead ''required'' to do so.

* Averted in the UK, where handguns aren't allowed, at all. So when a French cop working in St Pancras station for the international customs office (they have French cops on the British side and vice-versa) forgot to take her gun out of her holster when she walked across to the non-international section of the station to buy lunch, she got in ''serious'' trouble.

* Swords served a dual purpose in Medieval Europe: In addition to weapons, they were also a makeshift crucifix. It was not that uncommon for a knight to enter a place of worship and use it as such, or in some other peaceful, humble way.

* Swords served a dual purpose in Medieval Europe, especially during Crusades: In addition to weapons, they were also a makeshift crucifix. It was not that uncommon for a knight to enter a place of worship and use it as such, or in some other peaceful, humble way.

* A subfaction of pro-gun proponents advocate militantly open-carrying wherever it's legal to do so, a practice that is controversial even within the pro-gun community.

* In communities in the Canadian Arctic it isn't impossible to see someone walking into the local store with a slung rifle to pick up something before they head out on to the land, although it's generally considered to be rude. On the other hand, seeing people driving down the street on an ATV or a snowmobile carrying a rifle or shotgun is extremely common. It actually became a security issue when G8 Finance Ministers were meeting in Iqaluit and southern security personnel had to be briefed in advance to make sure that they didn't shoot an elder puttering along down the street heading out to his cabin.

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* There are some places in [[Eagle Land|the States]] where guns are allowed in ''bars''~~. [[Sarcasm Mode|We can't think of a better place to allow guns]]~~.