Pronoun Trouble: Difference between revisions

{{trope}}

 

[[Gender Neutral Writing|Gender neutral pronouns]] and substitution of names for pronouns allows speakers in anime to play a kind of pronoun game. The purpose of the game is usually to obscure someone's the gender or identity to the audience (or other characters) in a natural manner. It can be used as a way to talk about the [[Wholesome Crossdresser]] before revealing their gender without anyone technically lying about it. Occasionally, it's also a way to refer to a machine or other creature as if they were a person.

This can be difficult to translate into other languages. Some languages will combine '''Pronoun Trouble''' with Adjective Trouble: for example, in Spanish, adjectives can shift form depending on the gender of who/what is being described, making it much harder to keep the gender ambiguous. And since compound verb forms are frequently created from participles, and participles are actually adjectives, it can lead to Verb Trouble.

 

 

 

 

 

== [[Anime]] and [[Manga]] ==

* The Russian dub of ''[[Sailor Moon]] S'' ran into a similar problem: the translators could not find a way to leave Haruka's gender dubious until she was revealed to be female, which led to Haruka talking about herself in masculine forms. (Verbs in the past tense have genders in Russian, as do adjectives in singular forms.)

* Ashura in [[CLAMP]]'s series ''[[RG Veda]]'' is genderless. This is easier to convey in Japanese, which has genderless pronouns. The English manga uses "he", while the dubbed OVA uses "she", leaving some fans very, ''very'' confused.

** This also applies a good portion of the cast of ''[[Wish]]'', in which CLAMP followed the "angels are genderless" tradition, and the persocom Dita in ''[[Chobits]]''. Ruby Moon from [[Cardcaptor Sakura]] was sexless but saw herself as female, so she doesn't cause the pronoun problems the rest of them do.

** [[Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle|Mokona]] is [[Magic Knight Rayearth|Mokona]].

* ''[[Kino's Journey]]'' features a protagonist who looks masculine but sounds feminine, and who uses both the masculine and feminine forms of "I". {{spoiler|Turns out Kino's a girl.}}

* Katsura Hoshino, author of ''[[D.Gray-man]]'', uses pronouns that make pinning down the author's gender impossible. We finally found out {{spoiler|when ''she'' finally made her}} first major public appearance.

** In the manga, however, it was translated in English as "my son", therefore ruining the joke when the boy finally appears.

* In the Japanese original version of ''[[Mobile Suit Gundam 00]]'', the very feminine-looking Gundam pilot Tieria Erde changes pronouns depending on his mental state. The traditionally masculine "ore" at the beginning, the more casual but still mostly male "boku" when he starts [[Defrosting Ice Queen|more emotions]], the formal and ''gender neutral'' "watashi" when at his most fragile... Good luck making ''that'' translate into English.

** Although in the dub Medusa, being Crona's mother and pretty much the only other one who would be sure of Crona's gender, [[Guinea Pig Family|calls Crona "it"]].

* A common occurrence in ''[[Detective Conan]]'', where Conan claims that he knows the killer is "that person" when there are suspects of both sexes, preventing the audience from getting any information.

* Because of his gender neutral style of speaking, Lopmon in ''[[Digimon Tamers]]'' could have gone any which way. By the time Shiuchon was trying to teach him male pronouns, it was a case of [[She's a Man In Japan]] in the dub.

* ''[[Nabari no Ou]]'' will likely run into this in the translated manga, with {{spoiler|Sora's confusion over whether to use [[Japanese Pronouns|ore or watashi.]]}}

** Crystal has also been referred to as male... after it's clear that she's the one they're all talking about, and pretty much ''female.''

* Keiichi fell foul of this in ''[[Ah! My Goddess]]'' when put under a temporary [[Gender Bender]] by Skuld's pudding. When his sister and his fellow members of the Auto Club came looking for him, he tried to pretend that he was someone else, in a bid to [[Extra-Strength Masquerade|hide the presence of goddesses in his home]]. Just as he was about to leave, however, he [[Gender Vocabulary Slip|accidentally used the masculine 'ore' when referring to himself]], rousing some suspicion in his guests.

* Belbel in ''[[There Beyond the Beyond]]'' was the victim of this and [[Viewer Gender Confusion]] in the Tokyopop translation; the first volumes used the name "Lady Belbel", but when they changed translators, Belbel suddenly became a "he".

* ''[[Heartcatch Pretty Cure]]'' didn't formally reveal [[Bifauxnen|Myoudouin]] [[Student Council President|Itsuki]]'s female gender to Tsubomi—and the audience—until Episode Seven. This was a lot easier to get around in the original Japanese than in the subs, where not only Tsubomi, but Erika and the student council, the latter of which know better, refer to Itsuki with exclusively male terms until the aforementioned reveal.

* A minor example for most English speakers, but an obvious one for folks who speak Japanese, is the way in which Hazumu refers to h(er/im)self in ''[[Kashimashi: Girl Meets Girl]]'' - most notably the use of the 'boku' (male reflexive) pronoun, also referenced in a similarly [[Gender Bender|gender-bending]] series, ''[[Otome wa Boku ni Koishiteru]]''.

* A meta example occurs with ''[[Wandering Son]]'' as there's been discussion on the wiki about whether to refer to the transgender characters by their biological sex (Shuuichi is "he" & Yoshino is "she") or by their desired/mental genders (Shuuichi is "she" & Yoshino is "he"). The general consensus is to simply match what's used in-story (Shuuichi "he" / Yoshino "she"). Yuki is more straightforward, as she lives as a woman, is implied to have had surgery, and everyone in-story refers to her as "she" even after knowing her original gender.

 

== [[Film]] ==

{{quote|'''Alyssa:''' ...Holden.

'''Friend:''' Well. * drinks* Another one bites the dust. }}

Rachel Samstat: He is very angry at you. Yes. }}

** It should be noted that this is unrealistic; Hungarians who speak poor English will tend to use "he" instead of "she", and sometimes even instead of "it", but almost never vice versa. By the way, although the above conversation would not have included any pronouns in Hungarian (the language relies on verb declination and context in a lot of cases where English uses pronouns), Hungarian does have pronouns. It just doesn't have grammatical gender.

 

== [[Literature]] ==

* In [[Lois McMaster Bujold]]'s [[Vorkosigan Saga]], Betan hermaphrodites (genetic constructs who breed true) prefer to be referred to as "it". Also, instead of "Lady" or "Gentleman," the honorific "Honorable Herm" is used.

* The novel ''[[Adrian Mole]] and the Weapons of Mass Destruction'' by Sue Townsend features an offstage character named [[Gender Blender Name|Leslie]] who is in a relationship with Mr Carlton-Hayes, Adrian's boss. Since the Adrian has never met Leslie and Mr Carlton-Hayes always talks about him/her using this trope, both Adrian and the reader are clueless as to whether Leslie is a man or woman.

* In ''[[Ender In Exile]]'', Graff does a pretty good job of tiptoeing around pronouns when talking about Demosthenes, but naturally, Ender sees through it anyway.

* In the Spanish translation of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', the problem is in number, not gender, when a character says "May the Valar protect you." Since the Valar are not mentioned anywhere else, the translator uses "El valar" ("el" is masculine singular for "the"), probably assuming that the Valar is a sort of [[Crystal Dragon Jesus]]. It is clear from other works, though, that the proper form would be the plural "Los Valar."

 

* Pronoun Trouble drives the "humor" in the ''[[Saturday Night Live]]'' skit "It's Pat!" Watching any version of this skit at all makes clear exactly how troubling Pronoun Trouble can get.

** Your contributor suspects that the film version of these skits (yes, they had one) had a scene in a Japanese restaurant where the chef Pat is working for and his customers discuss Pat's gender in Japanese, specifically because of the language's gender neutrality... though to be fair, they also throw in [[The Un-Reveal|a guy vacuuming]].

* On ''[[Malcolm in the Middle]],'' infant Jamie went several episodes just after being born without having a specified gender. (In the end, it was another boy.) This was also parodied with a skit where the parents are skirting around his gender for about 2 minutes before casually revealing it by calling him "mister".

* Some literal Pronoun Trouble happens in-character on ''[[ER]]'' when Dr. Green's brain tumor began to inhibit his use of "he" and "she". Lambasting the friend of a gunshot victim, his "He blew his brains out!" became "She blew his brains out!", thoroughly confusing the guy he's yelling at.

* In an episode of ''[[Frasier]]'', the titular character learns that [[The Ghost|Maris]] has been having an affair and goes to confront her. He asks Niles' Hispanic maid for "Mrs. Crane" and she leads him to a sauna. After a lot of buildup, he opens the door and we see...[[The Un-Reveal|Niles]].

{{quote|'''Frasier''': I asked to see "MRS. Crane!"

'''Greta''': Yes! Missy Crane!

 

 

== [[Video Games]] ==

* In the fourth case of the second ''[[Ace Attorney]]'' game, an important plot point is the fact that the name {{spoiler|Adrian Andrews}} can apply to any gender, and {{spoiler|Shelley de Killer messes up by using "he" instead of "she" despite claiming he met her in person.}} The script does a good job of dancing around using pronouns for that person, but it's helped in that the name is only mentioned a few times during the time it's important.

** Also, when presenting profiles which people don't have a specific response to, they'll often say things like, "I don't know anything about this person."

* Legion in ''[[Mass Effect 2]]''. It's iffy on whether the entity identified as Legion should be called a "he" (male-sounding voice), "it" (inherently genderless robot), or "they" (gestalt consciousness consisting of 1,183 "programs" in a single "platform"). Shepard refers to Legion as "it" (...''usually''), though most of fandom refers to Legion as "he."

** In [[Mass Effect 3|the third game]], Legion refers to himself as I {{spoiler|right before his [[Heroic Sacrifice]], if you manage to achieve peace between the Quarians and the Geth}}.

** This is averted with Shepard him/her self, since unlike with KOTOR, the developers had planned from the beginning to have Shepard be either male or female, so there are separate voice files that have pronouns refer to either a male or female Shepard.

* Pronoun Trouble is what started the whole [[Viewer Gender Confusion|Sheik controversy]] of ''[[The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time]]''. When it was translated, Ruto had to call [[Sweet Polly Oliver|Sheik]] something. They decided to have her call Sheik "He".

** In the earlier Super Smash Bros games, Sheik's design was still physically ''clearly'' male (the spandex could leave no doubts...), but was referred to as "she". In Brawl, the new design was given boobs and long hair.

* In ''[[Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty]]'', Olga persistently refers to her child as, well, "my child", even in extremely convoluted circumstances. One would assume she at least got a glimpse of its gender after she gave birth to it, so there's no reason for this except to [[Lampshade]] the mystery about the child's identity.

* The intro to ''[[My Sims]] Agents'' has Buddy talking about how his comics are really about his best friend... but has to use "they" when forced to use a neutral pronoun to refer to you, because you choose your Sim's gender, and won't have done so yet. It would have been better to move at least that part of Sim creation to the beginning.

** Mentioned in [[Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga]], in regards to {{spoiler|Bowletta}}.

 

* Most characters refer to Vaarsuvius of ''[[The Order of the Stick|Order of the Stick]]'' as V because they don't know whether V's male or female. Every now and then, someone will refer to V with gender-specific language; but it's [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0252.html often] [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0385.html contradictory], and [[Word of God]] says any character who refers to V as male or female is reflecting their own perceptions, not necessarily reality.

** An interesting example [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html here]...with Durkon's accent, the pronoun comes out to an ambiguous "'E".

** In the preface for the third chapter of the second collection "No Cure for the Paladin Blues", the author does slip up and refer to V exclusively with male pronouns. But he'd probably deny that that proves anything.

*** And all of that is dashed to bits with [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html this], where V admits that he/she ignores pronouns.

* ''[[Narbonic]]'' doesn't seem to have any gender problems at all, happily referring to a gender-swapped Helen as "he". The fans do it, too (and also refer to "He-helen" and "Davette").

** ''[[El Goonish Shive]]'', on the other hand, seems to stick to the appropriate pronoun for the character's internal gender.

 

== [[Web Original]] ==

** Whereas the [[Gender Bender|gender-shifting]] Skunktaurs use "hy" and "hys" for some reason.

** Jade and the manifested J-Team have it even worse, as she cannot keep personal or impersonal pronouns straight. This is used as a [[Running Gag]].

* ''[[Orion's Arm]]'' has a surprisingly simple [http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/495360fba7a46 pronoun system] for referring to the six standard sexes in the setting plus addition pronouns to denote virtual and alien life forms of indeterminable gender.

 

== [[Western Animation]] ==

* The titular character in the ''[[Futurama]]'' film "The Beast With A Billion Backs" is a hermaphroditic [[Cosmic Horror|extra-dimensional being]] who asks to be referred to as "Shklee" and "Shklirr".

* For Brazilian translators, the English word "friend" is a nightmare. The word, as most denotative nouns in the Portuguese language, has a version for men ("amigo") and another for women ("[[Amiga]]" (gives a whole new meaning to the term "motherboard", doesn't it?)). So whenever an animated show wants to use the neutral meaning to create a plot-point, confusion ensues. A particular example in ''[[Avatar: The Last Airbender]]'' comes to mind - Aang asks Waterbending Master Paku if he can bring a ''friend'' to practice with them. When it turns out the friend is a ''girl'', Paku denies it. In the Brazilian dub, Aang immediately referred to Katara as his "amiga", already giving out that she's a girl... yet the rest of the scene plays the same way. The only possible explanation is that Paku has bad hearing...

* Baby Nameless, the infant child of Natalie and Carlos in ''[[Mission Hill]]'', does not have a name yet since Natalie does not want her child "to fall into a preconceived gender stereotype". The child's gender is never revealed in the series.

 

** Also goes double for those who don't fit into the male/female binary, whether that's genderqueer, androgyne, neutrois, or so on. Also applies to many intersex people. Most attempts at a [[Gender Neutral Pronoun]] aren't very well accepted and often feel quite clumsy and awkward.

* Bahasa has one basic third-person singular pronoun, "dia," which can mean "he" or "she."

** I would almost dare to go as far as to say that there are more languages in the world that do ''not'' have gender-specific pronouns than there are those that do. It might seem otherwise because of how widely Indo-European languages are spoken.

 

{{reflist}}

[[Category:Useful Notes/Japan]]

[[Category:Language Tropes]]