Pronoun Trouble: Difference between revisions
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{{trope}}
{{quote|''(Shortly after Daffy has been shot...)''
{{quote|''"It's not 'He doesn't have to shoot ''you'' now,' it's 'He doesn't have to shoot ''me'' now.' WELL, I SAY HE ''DOES'' HAVE TO SHOOT ME NOW!!"''|'''[[Looney Tunes|Daffy Duck]] to Bugs Bunny about Elmer Fudd [[Duck Season! Rabbit Season!|shooting at whom]]'''}}▼
'''Daffy:''' ''"...Let's run through that again."''
'''Bugs:''' ''"Okay. 'Would you like to shoot me now, or wait till you get home?'"''
'''Daffy''' ''(calmly) "Shoot him now, shoot him now."''
'''Bugs:''' ''(calmly) "You keep out of this, [[Duck Season! Rabbit Season!|he doesn't have to shoot you now.]]"
'''Daffy:''' ''Ha! That's it! Hold it right there! ([[Aside Glance]]) [[Trope Namer|Pronoun trouble.]]
([[Beat]])
▲
|[[Looney Tunes|Daffy Duck]], before promptly being shot, ''"[[Rabbit Seasoning]]"''}}
[[Gender Neutral Writing|Gender neutral pronouns]] and substitution of names for pronouns allows speakers in anime to play a kind of pronoun game. The purpose of the game is usually to obscure someone's the gender or identity to the audience (or other characters) in a natural manner. It can be used as a way to talk about the [[Wholesome Crossdresser]] before revealing their gender without anyone technically lying about it. Occasionally, it's also a way to refer to a machine or other creature as if they were a person.
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This can be difficult to translate into other languages. Some languages will combine '''Pronoun Trouble''' with Adjective Trouble: for example, in Spanish, adjectives can shift form depending on the gender of who/what is being described, making it much harder to keep the gender ambiguous. And since compound verb forms are frequently created from participles, and participles are actually adjectives, it can lead to Verb Trouble.
A similar effect is seen whenever a piece of fiction includes a character who identifies with a non-binary gender -- [["It" Is Dehumanizing|referring to them as "it" sounds quite cold.]]
A common trick in languages without a neutral pronoun is to refer to "that person", but that has its own pitfalls in that the unnatural phrasing serves to draw attention to what should, in many cases, go unremarked. Some languages, such as Finnish, have the opposite trouble - there are no gender-specific pronouns at all, just neutral ones. When translating English works into these languages, it's ''too easy'' to ignore someone's gender, so when it becomes a plot point that really has to be revealed, the translator is forced to use the less natural "that woman" or "that man" equivalents.
Compare [[The All-Concealing "I"]], which can serve a similar narrative function in English-language works. See [[Gender Vocabulary Slip]] for when
Not to be confused with [[Who's on First?]], where proper names are the source of confusion, or [[Ambiguous Syntax]], where the meaning is unclear rather than gender (and also what the trope-naming quote above qualifies as).
▲Compare [[The All-Concealing "I"]], which can serve a similar narrative function in English-language works. See [[Gender Vocabulary Slip]] for when crossdressers have '''Pronoun Trouble'''. See also [[Which Me?]], for when people have trouble using the right pronouns to distinguish ''themselves'' from duplicates.
{{examples}}▼
▲{{examples}}
== [[Anime]] and [[Manga]] ==
* The Viz dub of ''[[Ranma ½]]''
* The Russian dub of ''[[Sailor Moon]] S'' ran into a similar problem: the translators could not find a way to leave Haruka's gender dubious until she was revealed to be female, which led to Haruka talking about herself in masculine forms. (Verbs in the past tense have genders in Russian, as do adjectives in singular forms.)
* Ashura in [[CLAMP]]'s series ''[[RG Veda]]'' is genderless. This is easier to convey in Japanese, which has genderless pronouns. The English manga uses "he", while the dubbed OVA uses "she", leaving some fans very, ''very'' confused.
** This also applies a good portion of the cast of ''[[Wish]]'', in which CLAMP followed the "angels are genderless" tradition, and the persocom Dita in ''[[Chobits]]''. Ruby Moon from [[Cardcaptor Sakura]] was sexless but saw herself as female, so she doesn't cause the pronoun problems the rest of them do.
** [[Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle|Mokona]] is [[Magic Knight Rayearth|Mokona]].
*** This comes up ''[[Running Gag|again]]'' in the quartet's
* ''[[Kino's Journey]]'' features a protagonist who looks masculine but sounds feminine, and who uses both the masculine and feminine forms of "I". {{spoiler|Turns out Kino's a girl.}}
** The English dub makes it even harder to tell that {{spoiler|she's a girl}}, by the voice actor purposely obscuring this since the
* Katsura Hoshino, author of ''[[D.Gray-man]]'', uses pronouns that make pinning down the author's gender impossible. We finally found out {{spoiler|when ''she'' finally made her}} first major public appearance.
* As mentioned below, Chinese does not distinguish between male and female in the third person. This leads to ''two'' people being [[Mistaken for Gay]] in the manwha (Chinese comic) ''[[Half Prince]]''; one guy is in love with a female character's male online persona, whilst the other is in love with her real self. She [https://web.archive.org/web/20100722013438/http://www.onemanga.com/12_Prince/16/23/ overhears] and eventually concludes that they were [https://web.archive.org/web/20100401155839/http://www.onemanga.com/12_Prince/17/02/ fighting over a man] and, later, [https://web.archive.org/web/20100125135355/http://www.onemanga.com/12_Prince/17/05/ talking about her twin brother]. The [https://web.archive.org/web/20100124055657/http://www.onemanga.com/12_Prince/17/06/ subsequent] [[Ho Yay]] [https://web.archive.org/web/20100722013444/http://www.onemanga.com/12_Prince/17/07/ writes] [https://web.archive.org/web/20100124055704/http://www.onemanga.com/12_Prince/17/08/ itself].
* In ''[[Fruits Basket]]'' there's a joke where a character talks about her ''child''. When we meet this child about 10 episodes later,
** In the manga, however, it was translated in English as "my son", therefore ruining the joke when the boy finally appears.
* In the Japanese original version of ''[[Mobile Suit Gundam 00]]'', the very feminine-looking Gundam pilot Tieria Erde changes pronouns depending on his mental state. The traditionally masculine "ore" at the beginning, the more casual but still mostly male "boku" when he starts [[Defrosting Ice Queen|more emotions]], the formal and ''gender neutral'' "watashi" when at his most fragile... Good luck making ''that'' translate into English.
** They didn't, though
*** Similarly, [[Deadman Wonderland]]'s Toto Sakigami mixes up his pronouns and has to correct himself - usually female (atashi) to neutral (watashi) or male (boku or ore). Yep, he runs the whole spectrum.
* Crona from ''[[Soul Eater]]''. The dub of the anime just uses male pronounces, but
** Although in the dub Medusa, being Crona's mother and pretty much the only other one who would be sure of Crona's gender, [[Guinea Pig Family|calls Crona "it"]].
* A common occurrence in ''[[Detective Conan]]'', where Conan claims that he knows the killer is "that person" when there are suspects of both sexes, preventing the audience from getting any information.
* Probably unintentional in ''[[Katekyo Hitman Reborn]]'' with regards to several characters as a side-effect of the otherwise well-received [[Art Evolution]]. [[In the Hood|Viper]], [[Bishonen|Kikyou]] and [[Dude Looks Like a Lady|Daisy]] were all referred to with gender neutral pronouns, yet their designs are [[Viewer Gender Confusion|confusing, to say the least]]. This has led to translations using "he" then "she" for the same characters depending on who's translating.
* Because of his gender neutral style of speaking, Lopmon in ''[[Digimon Tamers]]'' could have gone any which way. By the time Shiuchon was trying to teach him male pronouns, it was a case of [[She's a Man In Japan]] in the dub.
* ''[[Nabari no Ou]]'' will likely run into this in the translated manga, with {{spoiler|Sora's confusion over whether to use [[Japanese Pronouns|ore or watashi.]]}}
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** Crystal has also been referred to as male... after it's clear that she's the one they're all talking about, and pretty much ''female.''
* Keiichi fell foul of this in ''[[Ah! My Goddess]]'' when put under a temporary [[Gender Bender]] by Skuld's pudding. When his sister and his fellow members of the Auto Club came looking for him, he tried to pretend that he was someone else, in a bid to [[Extra-Strength Masquerade|hide the presence of goddesses in his home]]. Just as he was about to leave, however, he [[Gender Vocabulary Slip|accidentally used the masculine 'ore' when referring to himself]], rousing some suspicion in his guests.
* ''[[Death Note]]''
* Belbel in ''[[There Beyond the Beyond]]'' was the victim of this and [[Viewer Gender Confusion]] in the Tokyopop translation; the first volumes used the name "Lady Belbel", but when they changed translators, Belbel suddenly became a "he".
* ''[[Heartcatch Pretty Cure]]'' didn't formally reveal [[Bifauxnen|Myoudouin]] [[Student Council President|Itsuki]]'s female gender to Tsubomi—and the audience—until Episode Seven. This was a lot easier to get around in the original Japanese than in the subs, where not only Tsubomi, but Erika and the student council, the latter of which know better, refer to Itsuki with exclusively male terms until the aforementioned reveal.
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* A minor example for most English speakers, but an obvious one for folks who speak Japanese, is the way in which Hazumu refers to h(er/im)self in ''[[Kashimashi: Girl Meets Girl]]'' - most notably the use of the 'boku' (male reflexive) pronoun, also referenced in a similarly [[Gender Bender|gender-bending]] series, ''[[Otome wa Boku ni Koishiteru]]''.
* A meta example occurs with ''[[Wandering Son]]'' as there's been discussion on the wiki about whether to refer to the transgender characters by their biological sex (Shuuichi is "he" & Yoshino is "she") or by their desired/mental genders (Shuuichi is "she" & Yoshino is "he"). The general consensus is to simply match what's used in-story (Shuuichi "he" / Yoshino "she"). Yuki is more straightforward, as she lives as a woman, is implied to have had surgery, and everyone in-story refers to her as "she" even after knowing her original gender.
* Kurapika in ''[[Hunter X Hunter]]'' presents translators with plenty of trouble. Again, in Japanese with no gendered pronouns, it's just not mentioned. Ambiguous tribal clothing, a female voice actor, and a tendency to wear female disguises don't help matters. At this point the English-speaking fandom has pretty much settled on
== [[Film]] ==
* A version of the pronoun game is played by Alyssa, a lesbian-identified bisexual woman and the protagonist's (Holden's) love interest in ''[[Chasing Amy]]''. Her friends press her on why she's less able to spend time with them, and she admits she's found
{{quote|'''Alyssa:''' ...Holden.
'''Friend:''' Well. * drinks* Another one bites the dust. }}
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Rachel Samstat: He is very angry at you. Yes. }}
** It should be noted that this is unrealistic; Hungarians who speak poor English will tend to use "he" instead of "she", and sometimes even instead of "it", but almost never vice versa. By the way, although the above conversation would not have included any pronouns in Hungarian (the language relies on verb declination and context in a lot of cases where English uses pronouns), Hungarian does have pronouns. It just doesn't have grammatical gender.
== [[Literature]] ==
* Many in the [[Star Trek Novel Verse]]. In addition to the pronouns [[Peter David]] uses in [[Star Trek: New Frontier]] for the Hermat race (listed in the body of the entry), there's a whole Hermat Language Council, to explain why he did away with the pronoun hish and the practice of calling a commanding Hermat officer "shir". The Hermat pronouns are later applied to other
* In [[Lois McMaster Bujold]]'s [[Vorkosigan Saga]], Betan hermaphrodites (genetic constructs who breed true) prefer to be referred to as "it". Also, instead of "Lady" or "Gentleman," the honorific "Honorable Herm" is used.
* The novel ''[[Adrian Mole]] and the Weapons of Mass Destruction'' by Sue Townsend features an offstage character named [[Gender Blender Name|Leslie]] who is in a relationship with Mr Carlton-Hayes, Adrian's boss. Since the Adrian has never met Leslie and Mr Carlton-Hayes always talks about him/her using this trope, both Adrian and the reader are clueless as to whether Leslie is a man or woman.
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* In ''[[Ender In Exile]]'', Graff does a pretty good job of tiptoeing around pronouns when talking about Demosthenes, but naturally, Ender sees through it anyway.
* In the Spanish translation of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', the problem is in number, not gender, when a character says "May the Valar protect you." Since the Valar are not mentioned anywhere else, the translator uses "El valar" ("el" is masculine singular for "the"), probably assuming that the Valar is a sort of [[Crystal Dragon Jesus]]. It is clear from other works, though, that the proper form would be the plural "Los Valar."
* The ''Children of Triad'' trilogy by Laurie J. Marks features the Aeyries, a race of hermaphrodites that are effectively neuter until maturity. A lot of this trope results when the Aeyries inevitably have to deal with the human-like Walkers, who, like every other species on their planet, have two genders. Because [["It" Is Dehumanizing]], many [[Fantastic Racism|Walkers, who are incredibly prejudiced against the Aeyries]], call them such, but the correct pronouns are 'id' and 'idre' in the Aeyrie language. As a more direct example, the eponymous main character of the first book, ''Delan the Mislaid'', grows up in a Walker village; because id has no male 'characteristics,' the people of
▲== [[Live Action TV]] ==
* Pronoun Trouble drives the "humor" in the ''[[Saturday Night Live]]'' skit "It's Pat!" Watching any version of this skit at all makes clear exactly how troubling Pronoun Trouble can get.
** Your contributor suspects that the film version of these skits (yes, they had one) had a scene in a Japanese restaurant where the chef Pat is working for and his customers discuss Pat's gender in Japanese, specifically because of the language's gender neutrality... though to be fair, they also throw in [[The Un-Reveal|a guy vacuuming]].
* On ''[[Malcolm in the Middle]],'' infant Jamie went several episodes just after being born without having a specified gender. (In the end, it was another boy.) This was also parodied with a skit where the parents are skirting around his gender for about 2 minutes before casually revealing it by calling him "mister".
* The J'naii in the ''[[Star Trek: The Next Generation]]'' episode "The Outcast" are an
* Pops up both in-universe and on [[
* ''[[How I Met Your Mother
* Some literal Pronoun Trouble happens in-character on ''[[ER]]'' when Dr. Green's brain tumor began to inhibit his use of "he" and "she". Lambasting the friend of a gunshot victim, his "He blew his brains out!" became "She blew his brains out!", thoroughly confusing the guy he's yelling at.
* In an episode of ''[[Frasier]]'', the titular character learns that [[The Ghost|Maris]] has been having an affair and goes to confront her. He asks Niles' Hispanic maid for "Mrs. Crane" and she leads him to a sauna. After a lot of buildup, he opens the door and we see...[[The Un-Reveal|Niles]].
{{quote|'''Frasier''': I asked to see "MRS. Crane!"
'''Greta''': Yes! Missy Crane!
'''Niles''': Greta has trouble with her pronouns.
* A presumably accidental invocation of this trope (a bio with no gendered pronouns used) led to a Transformer from the ''[[Beast Wars]]'' toyline (a bat named Sonar) to be considered female by the fanbase. (
== [[Video Games]] ==
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** In [[Mass Effect 3|the third game]], Legion refers to himself as I {{spoiler|right before his [[Heroic Sacrifice]], if you manage to achieve peace between the Quarians and the Geth}}.
** This is averted with Shepard him/her self, since unlike with KOTOR, the developers had planned from the beginning to have Shepard be either male or female, so there are separate voice files that have pronouns refer to either a male or female Shepard.
* In ''[[Prototype (video game)|Prototype]]'', Blackwatch is very specific when they say that Alex Mercer must be referred to as an "it", not a "he"
* Pronoun Trouble is what started the whole [[Viewer Gender Confusion|Sheik controversy]] of ''[[The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time]]''. When it was translated, Ruto had to call [[Sweet Polly Oliver|Sheik]] something. They decided to have her call Sheik "He".
** In the earlier Super Smash Bros games, Sheik's design was still physically ''clearly'' male (the spandex could leave no doubts...), but was referred to as "she". In Brawl, the new design was given boobs and long hair.
* Arguably, Saint Ajora in ''[[Final Fantasy Tactics]]'' was victim to this. The original PSX version of the game (both English and Japanese) referred to Ajora Glabados as a he. However, during the game he's
* In ''[[Persona 4]]'',
* In ''[[Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty]]'', Olga persistently refers to her child as, well, "my child", even in extremely convoluted circumstances. One would assume she at least got a glimpse of its gender after she gave birth to it, so there's no reason for this except to [[Lampshade]] the mystery about the child's identity.
* An ''[[The Idolmaster (video game)|Idolmaster]]'' MAD averts this with Ryo Akizuki,
* The intro to ''[[My Sims]] Agents'' has Buddy talking about how his comics are really about his best friend... but has to use "they" when forced to use a neutral pronoun to refer to you, because you choose your Sim's gender, and won't have done so yet. It would have been better to move at least that part of Sim creation to the beginning.
* Nintendo has trouble whether they should refer to the [[
** Mentioned in [[Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga]], in regards to {{spoiler|Bowletta}}.
* In ''[[Call of Duty: Black Ops III]]'', John Taylor uses the singular "they" when referring to the player character in pre-mission text because the player gender can be chosen
== [[Web
▲* A presumably accidental invocation of this trope (a bio with no gendered pronouns used) led to a Transformer from the ''[[Beast Wars]]'' toyline (a bat named Sonar) to be considered female by the fanbase (eventually this was apparently made canon).
== [[Web Comics]] ==▼
* Most characters refer to Vaarsuvius of ''[[The Order of the Stick|Order of the Stick]]'' as V because they don't know whether V's male or female. Every now and then, someone will refer to V with gender-specific language; but it's [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0252.html often] [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0385.html contradictory], and [[Word of God]] says any character who refers to V as male or female is reflecting their own perceptions, not necessarily reality.
** An interesting example [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html here]...with Durkon's accent, the pronoun comes out to an ambiguous "'E".
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* ''[[Narbonic]]'' doesn't seem to have any gender problems at all, happily referring to a gender-swapped Helen as "he". The fans do it, too (and also refer to "He-helen" and "Davette").
** ''[[El Goonish Shive]]'', on the other hand, seems to stick to the appropriate pronoun for the character's internal gender.
* [http://www.nuklearpower.com/2008/08/23/episode-1028-the-beauty-of-nature/ A
* ''[[Schlock Mercenary]]'' has LOTA ("Longshoreman
== [[Web Original]] ==
* The Chakats of ''[[Chakona Space]]'' use "shi" and "hir" to refer to themselves and other herms.
** Whereas the [[Gender Bender|gender-shifting]] Skunktaurs use "hy" and "hys" for some reason.
* In the [[Whateley Universe]], Heyoka (the codename) is a person of Lakota
** Jade and the manifested J-Team have it even worse, as she cannot keep personal or impersonal pronouns straight. This is used as a [[Running Gag]].
*** The J-Team issues aren't so much male/female, though, as a situation where [[Me's a Crowd|their singularity/plurality varies over time.]] Plus, there's a Masquerade going on where she/they are pretending that she/they are "they" 24/7. Whereas, as she says, "It's all just me." Now if you want a Team Kimba member whose male/female pronouns get a beating, try Ayla. Originally male, legally female, mentally male, physically
*** Oh, and Jade is
* ''[[Orion's Arm]]'' has a surprisingly simple [http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/495360fba7a46 pronoun system] for referring to the six standard sexes in the setting plus addition pronouns to denote virtual and alien life forms of indeterminable gender.
== [[Western Animation]] ==
* The titular character in the ''[[Futurama]]'' film "The Beast With A Billion Backs" is a hermaphroditic [[Cosmic Horror|extra-dimensional being]] who asks to be referred to as "Shklee" and "Shklirr".
* In ''[[King of the Hill]]'', [[The Comically Serious|Hank]]'s sex is printed as Female on his drivers license.
* For Brazilian translators, the English word "friend" is a nightmare. The word, as most denotative nouns in the Portuguese language, has a version for men ("amigo") and another for women ("[[Amiga]]" (gives a whole new meaning to the term "motherboard", doesn't it?)). So whenever an animated show wants to use the neutral meaning to create a plot-point, confusion ensues. A particular example in ''[[Avatar: The Last Airbender]]'' comes to mind - Aang asks Waterbending Master Paku if he can bring a ''friend'' to practice with them. When it turns out the friend is a ''girl'', Paku denies it. In the Brazilian dub, Aang immediately referred to Katara as his "amiga", already giving out that she's a girl... yet the rest of the scene plays the same way. The only possible explanation is that Paku has bad hearing...
** This is not just about the word 'friend', but about pretty much any word, period. In Portuguese (and other romance languages<ref>e.g.: Spanish, Italian, French, etc.</ref> for that matter), it's much harder to stay gender neutral then English, since you have to specify the gender for most nouns. That said, Portuguese language convention dictates that, in ambiguous or neutral cases, the male ending for gendered nouns should be used. The same goes for Spanish, and probably the other romance languages as well.
▲**** That doesn't help in cases like the above, though, since Katara's gender is obviously not ambiguous to Aang.
▲**** Would it have helped if he said "someone"? Sorry, I don't know Portuguese, so I don't know if the word for "someone" has gender. I know in French it does: quelqu'un/quelqu'une. (But in French you can get away with the friend-word since "amie" is pronounced the same as "ami" and even happens to use the same male possessive pronoun "mon" because it begins with a vowel and thus can't use the feminine "ma".)
▲**** That is what happens in the Portuguese (European Portuguese) translation ("someone" doesn't have a gender). Although there are occasions there is no way around it. The problem is not just the nouns, adjectives must change both in gender and number too. Pronouns themselves have the "neutral masculine" way out, but some other situations get really awkward sometimes...
* Baby Nameless, the infant child of Natalie and Carlos in ''[[Mission Hill]]'', does not have a name yet since Natalie does not want her child "to fall into a preconceived gender stereotype". The child's gender is never revealed in the series.
* [[Truth in Television]] example: Many a [[
▲== [[Real Life]] ==
** Especially if they aren't openly
▲* [[Truth in Television]] example: Many a [[Transsexualism|Transgendered person]], especially the ones who can't pass very well.
▲** Especially if they aren't openly transsexual, and you have to switch between pronouns for them in public and private.
** Also goes double for those who don't fit into the male/female binary, whether that's genderqueer, androgyne, neutrois, or so on. Also applies to many intersex people. Most attempts at a [[Gender Neutral Pronoun]] aren't very well accepted and often feel quite clumsy and awkward.
* Historically, there were no gender-specific pronouns in
* Bahasa has one basic third-person singular pronoun, "dia," which can mean "he" or "she."
** I would almost dare to go as far as to say that there are more languages in the world that do ''not'' have gender-specific pronouns than there are those that do. It might seem otherwise because of how widely Indo-European languages are spoken.
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{{reflist}}
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[[Category:Useful Notes/Japan]]
[[Category:Language Tropes]]
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