Recursive Precursors: Difference between revisions

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{{trope}}
{{trope}}
{{quote|''{{smallcaps|[[The Precursors|The Protheans]] [[The Reveal|were not the first]]. They did not create the Citadel. They did not forge the [[Lost Technology|Mass]] [[Portal Network|Relays]]. They merely found them, the legacy of [[Eldritch Abomination|my kind]].}}''
{{quote|''{{smallcaps|[[Precursors|The Protheans]] [[The Reveal|were not the first]]. They did not create the Citadel. They did not forge the [[Lost Technology|Mass]] [[Portal Network|Relays]]. They merely found them, the legacy of [[Eldritch Abomination|my kind]].}}''
|{{spoiler|'''Sovereign'''}}, ''[[Mass Effect]]''}}
|{{spoiler|'''Sovereign'''}}, ''[[Mass Effect]]''}}


[[The Precursors]] are a staple of a great many [[Sci Fi]] and [[Fantasy]] settings. While [[The Precursors|Precursors]] come in many different varieties, the defining aspect of [[The Precursors]] is that they existed in the time before a setting's contemporary civilization.
[[Precursors]] are a staple of a great many [[Sci Fi]] and [[Fantasy]] settings. While Precursors come in many different varieties, the defining aspect of the Precursors is that they existed in the time before a setting's contemporary civilization.


'''Recursive Precursors''' occur when the concept of [[The Precursors|A Precursor]] is [[Exactly What It Says on the Tin|applied recursively]]; such beings served a similar role to [[The Precursors]] as they do to contemporary civilizations. The odds are surprisingly high that [[The Precursors]] to [[The Precursors]] had even had ''another'' race that served as their own [[The Precursors|Precursors]], and so on, forming a long line of ancient civilizations faster than you can say [[Memetic Mutation|Yo Dawg...]]
'''Recursive Precursors''' occur when the concept of a Precursor is [[Exactly What It Says on the Tin|applied recursively]]; such beings served a similar role to the Precursors as they do to contemporary civilizations. The odds are surprisingly high that the Precursors to the Precursors had even had ''another'' race that served as their own Precursors, and so on, forming a long line of ancient civilizations faster than you can say [[Memetic Mutation|Yo Dawg...]]


Of course, having a long series [[The Precursors|Precursor]] races carries some [[Fridge Horror|Disturbing Implications]]. Beyond the fact that [[The Precursors]] existed in the time before the setting's present civilizations, another important aspect of [[The Precursors]] is that they are no longer around, due to [[Precursor Killers]], being [[Sealed Evil in a Can|Sealed]] [[Sealed Badass in a Can|In A Can]] [[Sealed Good in a Can|Of Some Sort]], [[Ascended to A Higher Plane of Existence|Ascending]] to some sort of higher reality, dying out for mundane reasons, and so on. While the last two options are certainly a possibility, when dealing with large number of Recursive Precursors, there's generally a not so pleasant reason for all of them not being around, which has some odds of being [[Abusive Precursors|One Of Their Own]].
Of course, having a long series [[Precursors|Precursor]] races carries some [[Fridge Horror|Disturbing Implications]]. Beyond the fact that the Precursors]] existed in the time before the setting's present civilizations, another important aspect of the Precursors is that they are no longer around, due to [[Precursor Killers]], being [[Sealed Evil in a Can|Sealed]] [[Sealed Badass in a Can|In A Can]] [[Sealed Good in a Can|Of Some Sort]], [[Ascended to A Higher Plane of Existence|Ascending]] to some sort of higher reality, dying out for mundane reasons, and so on. While the last two options are certainly a possibility, when dealing with large number of Recursive Precursors, there's generally a not so pleasant reason for all of them not being around, which has some odds of being [[Abusive Precursors|One Of Their Own]].


Naturally, this is a [[Sub-Trope]] of [[The Precursors]]. When [[Creating Life]] is involved, this trope is highly compatible with [[Recursive Creators]], but is otherwise not related to other "Recursive Tropes" such as [[Recursive Reality]] and [[Recursive Fanfiction]].
Naturally, this is a [[Sub-Trope]] of [[Precursors]]. When [[Creating Life]] is involved, this trope is highly compatible with [[Recursive Creators]], but is otherwise not related to other "Recursive Tropes" such as [[Recursive Reality]] and [[Recursive Fanfiction]].


{{examples}}
{{examples}}
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== [[Live-Action TV]] ==
== [[Live-Action TV]] ==
* ''[[Babylon 5]]'': Lorien and the rest of his kind were this to the other [[The Precursors|First Ones]], like the Vorlons and the Shadows.
* ''[[Babylon 5]]'': Lorien and the rest of his kind were this to the other [[Precursors|First Ones]], like the Vorlons and the Shadows.
* ''[[Battlestar Galactica (2004 TV series)|Battlestar Galactica]]'': The People of Kobol were [[Precursors]] to the {{spoiler|People of Earth}} and the 12 Colonies, but there was presumably no one before them {{spoiler|unless you count whatever "It" is that doesn't like being called "God" and the Head People.}}
* ''[[Battlestar Galactica (2004 TV series)|Battlestar Galactica]]'': The People of Kobol were [[Precursors]] to the {{spoiler|People of Earth}} and the 12 Colonies, but there was presumably no one before them {{spoiler|unless you count whatever "It" is that doesn't like being called "God" and the Head People.}}
* In ''[[Doctor Who]]'', we have [[Sufficiently Advanced Aliens|the Eternals]], some of which were apparently the seldom mentioned [[Ancient Astronauts|gods of Gallifrey]]; [[Precursors]] to the Time Lords who are themselves [[Depending on the Writer|(sometimes)]] cited as the reason for there being so many races of [[Human Aliens]], [[Rubber Forehead Aliens]], and [[Humanoid Aliens]] in the [[Whoniverse]].
* In ''[[Doctor Who]]'', we have [[Sufficiently Advanced Aliens|the Eternals]], some of which were apparently the seldom mentioned [[Ancient Astronauts|gods of Gallifrey]]; [[Precursors]] to the Time Lords who are themselves [[Depending on the Writer|(sometimes)]] cited as the reason for there being so many races of [[Human Aliens]], [[Rubber Forehead Aliens]], and [[Humanoid Aliens]] in the [[Whoniverse]].
* In ''[[Red Dwarf]]'' it is speculated that all life in the universe originated on Earth, with humans acting as [[The Precursors]] to countless other races, who in turn acted as Recursive Precursors to even more sentient creatures.
* In ''[[Red Dwarf]]'' it is speculated that all life in the universe originated on Earth, with humans acting as the [[Precursors]] to countless other races, who in turn acted as Recursive Precursors to even more sentient creatures.
* In the [[Stargate Verse]], the Goa'uld were originally thought to be the ones who had built the Stargate network, come to Earth to find slaves, and built the Pyramids to land their spaceships. SG-1 quickly discovers that while the Goa'uld were indeed the ones on Earth thousands of years ago, the Stargates were actually built by ''their'' precursors, the Ancients, millions of years ago. ''[[Stargate Universe]]'' revealed that the Ancients had found signs of their own [[Precursors]] (or [[God]]), but the series ended before they could be revealed.
* In the [[Stargate Verse]], the Goa'uld were originally thought to be the ones who had built the Stargate network, come to Earth to find slaves, and built the Pyramids to land their spaceships. SG-1 quickly discovers that while the Goa'uld were indeed the ones on Earth thousands of years ago, the Stargates were actually built by ''their'' precursors, the Ancients, millions of years ago. ''[[Stargate Universe]]'' revealed that the Ancients had found signs of their own [[Precursors]] (or [[God]]), but the series ended before they could be revealed.
* The ''[[Star Trek]]'' [[Expanded Universe]] is full of these. There's all the [[Energy Being|uberpowerful noncorporeal life]], and the ancient humanoid preservers, and a hundred or so other ancient powerful empires.
* The ''[[Star Trek]]'' [[Expanded Universe]] is full of these. There's all the [[Energy Being|uberpowerful noncorporeal life]], and the ancient humanoid preservers, and a hundred or so other ancient powerful empires.
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== [[Video Games]] ==
== [[Video Games]] ==
* [[The Precursors]] of the contemporary object of worship--"[[The Maker]]"—in the ''[[Dragon Age]]'' series were the seven [[Old Gods]] of Tevinter. Their [[The Precursors|Precursors]] were the nine Elven gods ("Creators"), and ''their'' precursors were the [[Names to Run Away From Really Fast|Forgotten Ones]].
* The [[Precursors]] of the contemporary object of worship -- "[[The Maker]]" -- in the ''[[Dragon Age]]'' series were the seven [[Old Gods]] of Tevinter. Their [[Precursors]] were the nine Elven gods ("Creators"), and ''their'' precursors were the [[Names to Run Away From Really Fast|Forgotten Ones]].
* In ''[[Homeworld]]'', the ancient Hiigarans left their warp core to be discovered by the Kushans 3000 years later. But the Ancient Hiigarans never built the core, they found it. It was made by a still older race known only as the Precursors, who, according to legend, are said to have originated from beyond the galaxy.
* In ''[[Homeworld]]'', the ancient Hiigarans left their warp core to be discovered by the Kushans 3000 years later. But the Ancient Hiigarans never built the core, they found it. It was made by a still older race known only as the Precursors, who, according to legend, are said to have originated from beyond the galaxy.
* The ''[[Mass Effect]]'' universe has a bunch of these, one of which–a [[Eldritch Abomination|Reaper]] called {{spoiler|[[Big Bad|Sovereign]]}}–provides the page quotes. Of course, due to the [[Law of Conservation of Detail]], only two of these races–the [[Time Abyss|billion or so]] year old [[Deus Est Machina|mechanical]] [[Eldritch Abomination|Reapers]] and the 50,000 year old [[Benevolent Precursors|Protheans]], respectively the first and last in the line of Recursive Precursors–are relevant to the plot.
* The ''[[Mass Effect]]'' universe has a bunch of these, one of which–a [[Eldritch Abomination|Reaper]] called {{spoiler|[[Big Bad|Sovereign]]}}–provides the page quotes. Of course, due to the [[Law of Conservation of Detail]], only two of these races–the [[Time Abyss|billion or so]] year old [[Deus Est Machina|mechanical]] [[Eldritch Abomination|Reapers]] and the 50,000 year old [[Benevolent Precursors|Protheans]], respectively the first and last in the line of Recursive Precursors–are relevant to the plot.
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== [[Tabletop Games]] ==
== [[Tabletop Games]] ==
* In ''[[Warhammer 40,000]]'', [[Space Elves|Eldar]] are a borderline example of [[The Precursors|a Precursor Race]], in which case their creators, the Old Ones, would be Recursive Precursors as well, alongside the [[Abusive Precursors|Necrontyr/Necrons]], and the [[Eldritch Abomination|C'tan Star Gods.]]
* In ''[[Warhammer 40,000]]'', [[Space Elves|Eldar]] are a borderline example of a Precursor Race, in which case their creators, the Old Ones, would be Recursive Precursors as well, alongside the [[Abusive Precursors|Necrontyr/Necrons]], and the [[Eldritch Abomination|C'tan Star Gods.]]
* [[Forgotten Realms]] elves dominated Faerun before they torn both continent and their civilizations apart in Crown Wars, which left them weakened and gradually displaced by human expansion, all the while Dwarven and Giant kingdoms still fought each other. But the Elves in turn took the world from Dragons' claws. That's where we switch from merely mythical era to the [[Time Abyss]] of [http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Creator_race Creator Races] about whom little is known: Dragons [https://web.archive.org/web/20130531132751/http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd%2Fdrrl%2F20071107a fought giants] after knocking birdlike Aearee out of Toril's sky... Aearee in turn spread when [[Frogs and Toads|Batrachi]] got themselves extinct, before ''their'' time there were [[Lizard Folk|Sarrukh]] and [[Fair Folk|Fey]], and so on. And before that was "[http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15988&whichpage=24#385780 Time of the Rauth]"—prehistorical era when something was going on too, but ''what'' is completely lost by now.
* [[Forgotten Realms]] elves dominated Faerun before they torn both continent and their civilizations apart in Crown Wars, which left them weakened and gradually displaced by human expansion, all the while Dwarven and Giant kingdoms still fought each other. But the Elves in turn took the world from Dragons' claws. That's where we switch from merely mythical era to the [[Time Abyss]] of [http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Creator_race Creator Races] about whom little is known: Dragons [https://web.archive.org/web/20130531132751/http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd%2Fdrrl%2F20071107a fought giants] after knocking birdlike Aearee out of Toril's sky... Aearee in turn spread when [[Frogs and Toads|Batrachi]] got themselves extinct, before ''their'' time there were [[Lizard Folk|Sarrukh]] and [[Fair Folk|Fey]], and so on. And before that was "[http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15988&whichpage=24#385780 Time of the Rauth]"—prehistorical era when something was going on too, but ''what'' is completely lost by now.
* [[Eberron]] has a long history of being ruled by demons, then dragons, then giants, then goblinoids (in Khorvaire), then finally the common races. Some of them are still around to some extent, from the [[Neglectful Precursors|Dragons of Argonessen]] to the [[Sealed Evil in a Can|Demon Wastes]] to whatever is happening in [[Dug Too Deep|the depths of Khyber]].
* [[Eberron]] has a long history of being ruled by demons, then dragons, then giants, then goblinoids (in Khorvaire), then finally the common races. Some of them are still around to some extent, from the [[Neglectful Precursors|Dragons of Argonessen]] to the [[Sealed Evil in a Can|Demon Wastes]] to whatever is happening in [[Dug Too Deep|the depths of Khyber]].
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