Soul Series/Headscratchers: Difference between revisions

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*** While things like Cassandra's ending and the direction Taki's story went do bug me, I'd have to politely disagree on them not caring about the plot completely. Most of the other endings are well done, and some of the characters in this game come from somewhere in the backstory (such as Durer and The Hero King/Algol, who were perhaps two of the more obscure ones).

*** Agree with the above. As for Cassy's ending, I think there's some missing link to tie it together: she fights Sophitia being possessed by SE in her story mode. Sophie turned a host to protect her child from SC, whose anti-SE nature would have killed. Cass may have also heard about its real nature from Raphael (who she fights in her story mode too). So SC is an anti-SE [[Knight Templar]] and it will kill Sophie's child, forcing Sophie to take such extreme measures as to wield SE, misleading Cass into blaming SC for Sophie's misfortune.

**** ~~[[Tropers/Reiko Kazama|~~My]] [[Wild Mass Guessing|guess]] is that Cassandra somehow figured out (behind the scenes) that SC was (if I remember right... haven't played either of the 3 [yes, 3: IV, BD, and II in the order that I received them] games that I do have in ages XD) born from a fragment of SE, and therefore *[[Blah Blah Blah|rambles on and on, incorporating segments from the above post and little figments of her own imagination and ends up getting weird looks from the surrounding tropers]]*

**** My [[Wild Mass Guessing|guess]] is that Cassandra somehow figured out (behind the scenes) that SC was (if I remember right... haven't played either of the 3 [yes, 3: IV, BD, and II in the order that I received them] games that I do have in ages XD) born from a fragment of SE, and therefore *[[Blah Blah Blah|rambles on and on, incorporating segments from the above post and little figments of her own imagination and ends up getting weird looks from the surrounding tropers]]*

* How come the games are apparently set in the 16th century (1591, if I remember correctly) and yet Sophitia and Cassandra live in the (Islamic) Ottoman Empire and they worship Greek gods. You'd think they'd be killed for this.

** This also takes place in a world where the Greek gods ''exist''. This probably makes worshipping them a bit easier in terms of "tendency of anyone who oppresses their worshippers to be struck by lightning" sense.

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*** ...I'm pretty sure visiting a temple to petition a god or gods for favors/blessings and whispering prayers to those gods counts as "worship".

*** The whole ordeal (during ''SE'', atleast) was more in the lines of "Sophie was a BIG fan of ancient myths", nothing else: Before knowing the gods were actually real, she was actually very interested in ancient greek mythology and lamented how people of her time has forgotten about their roots and culture. After leaving the mandatory worship (mass, though I'm not sure if that's the right term), she used to have a "silent prayer" to the city's protector (Athena) only out of respect for the story build by her ancestors, not because she's secretly thinking they are real (yet). After they are found out to be real, she's still not going every odd day to pray for them, but just visiting the ruins of the temple in very special times (her engagement, when she's troubled in ''SC3'').

*** And in fact, in support of the above, ancient Greek religion has experienced a number of revivals in the past, in the arts, humanities and spirituality of the Renaissance era (when SC series is set) as well as with the contemporary Hellenic Reconstructionism, or "Hellenismos" as it is sometimes called. Sophitia probably keeps it quiet though, due to Ottoman influences at the time, but its not ~~inconcievable~~ that she worships the "old" Gods in secret. Even in modern-day Greece, some older women still keep a small shrine to Hestia, the ancient Goddess of the home and hearth for good luck.

*** And in fact, in support of the above, ancient Greek religion has experienced a number of revivals in the past, in the arts, humanities and spirituality of the Renaissance era (when SC series is set) as well as with the contemporary Hellenic Reconstructionism, or "Hellenismos" as it is sometimes called. Sophitia probably keeps it quiet though, due to Ottoman influences at the time, but its not inconceivable that she worships the "old" Gods in secret. Even in modern-day Greece, some older women still keep a small shrine to Hestia, the ancient Goddess of the home and hearth for good luck.

*** I think that you are all giving Namco too much credit and that they just did not bother do the research. First of all while the Ottoman Empire wasn't all sunshine and roses, it was much more tolerant towards its religious minorities than any other contemporary empire. Second, Sophitia, Cassandra and any other Greek character from this period would belong to the Byzantine Orthodox Church (since approximately the 4th or 5th century AD), which was even more allergic to the old Greco-Roman pantheon then the Ottomans. (As a matter of fact, it was the Byzantines who banned the Olympic Games for being "pagan rituals").

*** ''I think that you are all giving Namco too much credit and that they just did not bother do the research.'', except that most of what's said (specially about Sophitia assisting mass and being a big fan of ancient greek mythology) is directly stated in her original profile. Sophitia was the only one who ever had this interest too, as Cassandra only believes they exist because she knows Sophitia is not the type to lie.

* Okay, so I did not watch the whole story mode yet, but I did watch the end and the credits. Suddenly, so much gets confirmed based on what I assume is the the voice actor list in the credits. Viola is suddenly Amy based on the fact that they share both English and Japanese VA's (which was known way before story mode was leaked) and Nightmare is using Raphael's body because they share the same seiyuu. This is where I get confused. Popular theory aside, does the trope, [[Talking to Yourself]] not apply? Not to mention that while they specified who played who in Japanese, but they only specified [[Roger Craig Smith]] as Ezio. The other English VS's are just mentioned in alphabetical order without saying who they voiced. Nightmare in particular is going back and forth between [[Patrick Seitz]] and Charles Rubendall. Some VA's also seem to be outright ''missing'', like how the general consensus says that [[Laura Bailey]] is Pyrrha, but she appears to be either missing from the credits or played by someone else. Is this all being assumed based on the VA list or am I making the wrong assumptions and missed something? Also, is there anywhere I can find a confirmed VA list? I apologize for this wall of text~~. I just don't [[TV Tropes]] to be giving out [[Fanon]] as fact~~.

* Okay, so I did not watch the whole story mode yet, but I did watch the end and the credits. Suddenly, so much gets confirmed based on what I assume is the the voice actor list in the credits. Viola is suddenly Amy based on the fact that they share both English and Japanese VA's (which was known way before story mode was leaked) and Nightmare is using Raphael's body because they share the same seiyuu. This is where I get confused. Popular theory aside, does the trope, [[Talking to Yourself]] not apply? Not to mention that while they specified who played who in Japanese, but they only specified [[Roger Craig Smith]] as Ezio. The other English VS's are just mentioned in alphabetical order without saying who they voiced. Nightmare in particular is going back and forth between [[Patrick Seitz]] and Charles Rubendall. Some VA's also seem to be outright ''missing'', like how the general consensus says that [[Laura Bailey]] is Pyrrha, but she appears to be either missing from the credits or played by someone else. Is this all being assumed based on the VA list or am I making the wrong assumptions and missed something? Also, is there anywhere I can find a confirmed VA list? I apologize for this wall of text.

** What you see is what you get with the credits. It's possible that there are (like in ''III'' and ''IV'') uncredited VAs for English, but Pyrrha ([[Laura Bailey]]) and Raphael (Charles Rubendall, who voiced him in ''III'' and ''IV'') would seem to still be correct. As for the issues of Viola and Nightmare, there are strong hints that what is on the characters page is correct (aside from VAs, {{spoiler|Raphael remarks "Strange..." when biting Viola during his throw and Graf Dumas looks like Raphael, but with a mask--something that's made even more obvious in CAS}}), but nothing was ''officially'' disclosed in the story. Thus, it's just conjecture at this point. True? Most likely. Confirmed? No. ~~[[Tropers/X 2 X|~~I'm]] going to bring this post up on the discussion page for the characters page, but I might just go ahead and remove that information altogether since it's not explicitly true.

** What you see is what you get with the credits. It's possible that there are (like in ''III'' and ''IV'') uncredited VAs for English, but Pyrrha ([[Laura Bailey]]) and Raphael (Charles Rubendall, who voiced him in ''III'' and ''IV'') would seem to still be correct. As for the issues of Viola and Nightmare, there are strong hints that what is on the characters page is correct (aside from VAs, {{spoiler|Raphael remarks "Strange..." when biting Viola during his throw and Graf Dumas looks like Raphael, but with a mask--something that's made even more obvious in CAS}}), but nothing was ''officially'' disclosed in the story. Thus, it's just conjecture at this point. True? Most likely. Confirmed? No. I'm going to bring this post up on the discussion page for the characters page, but I might just go ahead and remove that information altogether since it's not explicitly true.

== Considering that the series takes place in the 16th century... ==

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* [[No Guy Wants an Amazon|You presume they get any offers]].

* Single women are more accessible to fanboys and shippers. Story-wise, though, it's a bit more surprising that they're actually doing things out by themselves without any men accompanying them. The Soul series is full of anachronisms, but I think the biggest is women's rights back then.

* Women's right have nothing to do with that. Ignoring for a moment the fact that [[Acceptable Breaks From Reality|the game needs a host of female characters]] to keep it varied, most characters have excuses for this: they are either rebellious and not asking for anyone's consent (Cass, Mina, Amy), higher forces ordered so (Rothion being denied by Hephaestus to go along Sophie), they broke the rules regardless of any ~~consecuences~~ falling on them (Ivy, Xianghua, Taki, Setsuka) or they come from fictional places with different customs (Talim). Hilde's probably the only unjustifiable case, but then again Wolfkrone is a fictional pseudo-country, so who knows what are their views on women. Also, there are cases where this issue is adressed, like Han-myeong in ''SC2'' noting the bad rep he'd get by letting Mina leave on her own.

* Women's right have nothing to do with that. Ignoring for a moment the fact that [[Acceptable Breaks From Reality|the game needs a host of female characters]] to keep it varied, most characters have excuses for this: they are either rebellious and not asking for anyone's consent (Cass, Mina, Amy), higher forces ordered so (Rothion being denied by Hephaestus to go along Sophie), they broke the rules regardless of any consequences falling on them (Ivy, Xianghua, Taki, Setsuka) or they come from fictional places with different customs (Talim). Hilde's probably the only unjustifiable case, but then again Wolfkrone is a fictional pseudo-country, so who knows what are their views on women. Also, there are cases where this issue is adressed, like Han-myeong in ''SC2'' noting the bad rep he'd get by letting Mina leave on her own.

** ''come from fictional places with different customs (Talim)'' - Talim is a ''babaylan'' and has a canonical background placing her in a Philippines-like tribe. Before the Spaniards took over and subsumed the country, while expectations and stereotypes still existed, the disparity isn't as uneven. For example, either child can be a ''Datu'' (social/political leader) but only women were ever allowed to be a ''Babaylan'' (religious leader), so Talim, being from a family that rears ''babaylan'' and being one herself, it's not that hard to see why she can have the freedom to do what she wants, even if SC technically happens in the 16th century.

** '' they are either rebellious and not asking for anyone's consent'' / ''they broke the rules regardless of any ~~consecuences~~ falling on them'' - Which was unthinkable back then. I don't mean as in "Wow, that's pretty rare, nifty!" I mean "HOLY SHIT THAT WOMAN IS DOING SOMETHING WITHOUT THE MAN'S PERMISSION, GET THE FUCKING GUARD". Just the fact that they know martial arts and fighting styles is eyebrow-arching. [[Acceptable Breaks From Reality]], of course, but it's still fun to joke about.

** '' they are either rebellious and not asking for anyone's consent'' / ''they broke the rules regardless of any consequences falling on them'' - Which was unthinkable back then. I don't mean as in "Wow, that's pretty rare, nifty!" I mean "HOLY SHIT THAT WOMAN IS DOING SOMETHING WITHOUT THE MAN'S PERMISSION, GET THE FUCKING GUARD". Just the fact that they know martial arts and fighting styles is eyebrow-arching. [[Acceptable Breaks From Reality]], of course, but it's still fun to joke about.

*** This is not necessarily true, there have been times even in the ~~medival~~ period where common women were given power or were largely independent on their husbands, see the Wife of Bath. Also there are few records written by the poor who lived by a different set of rules than the nobility who would be the ones in charge of the records. Besides that given the fighting ability of these women your hypothetical would end in the death of said guard.

*** This is not necessarily true, there have been times even in the medieval period where common women were given power or were largely independent on their husbands, see the Wife of Bath. Also there are few records written by the poor who lived by a different set of rules than the nobility who would be the ones in charge of the records. Besides that given the fighting ability of these women your hypothetical would end in the death of said guard.

** ''>end in the death of said guard.'' '''STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM.'''

*** Which results in more dead guards. Assuming anyone actually saw the fight. Besides, they have a lot ore pressing matters to worry about, like Nightmare going around the countryside.

** Hilde is justified, as by ''V'' she is leading her people to refuge while researching a way to purify the lands of Wolfkrone. In short, she's pretty much her nation's current leader.

* Mentioned above, but to reiterate with regards to Ivy (and Hilde, as a fellow aristocrat) in this matter: you can see a portrait of Ivy hanging in the gallery of her mansion (her SC 3 stage) which shows her wearing a much more formal, period-correct dress. It's therefore likely that she only wears her revealing fighting-gear when she's off on one of her Soul Edge quests, as opposed to when she attends [[British Stuffiness|society balls in London]]. Also, as an [[Screw the Rules, I Have Money|aristocrat]], she would arguably have more freedom to be eccentric (and dress eccentrically) than a common woman of the time. Also, her native England was ruled by Elizabeth I at the time, who no doubt would have approved of a fellow strong, powerful woman as one of her subjects (revealing outfits non-withstanding!)

* Seong Mina also has a father who wants him to marry Hwang, but both seem to be worried about a Japanese invasion ~~atleast~~ during Soul Calibur 2. He seems to be somewhat allowing Mina to travel the world, or more darkly she, Hwang and Yun Sung are the only survivors of the many Korean agents sent to claim Soul Edge aka the Sword of Salvation.

* Seong Mina also has a father who wants him to marry Hwang, but both seem to be worried about a Japanese invasion at least during Soul Calibur 2. He seems to be somewhat allowing Mina to travel the world, or more darkly she, Hwang and Yun Sung are the only survivors of the many Korean agents sent to claim Soul Edge aka the Sword of Salvation.

*** No other people was ever sent for the sword by the Korean government, as Hwang's bio in 3 states he was selected the 2nd time because he was the only one with some experience traveling west. In Mina's bio in 2, Han-myeong is reluctant to let Mina go get Yun-seong, but he realizes she'd just escape home a third time if he said no, and accepting she was fit for the task, gave his blessing to her quest.

* Also note that it was Sophitia and Taki who defeated Soul Edge in Soul Edge, and Xianghua who damaged Soul Edge in SC1, so most people would probably be a bit more open since the Azure Knight has to be public knowledge by now. The massacres to feed the Evil sword and a knight immune or resistant to bullets would stand out specially with that giant arm. So the average peasant may have heard of the evil sword and more than willing to turn a blind eye on uppity women if they have a rampaging, soul sucking, army stomping monster with a cadre of minions to worry about. Thats not even counting the Evils seen in Soul Calibur Legends, considering the Evil Seed may have awakened anything dangerous world wide.

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== The (Eurasian) world knows of the Azure Knight... ==

But apparently elects to not remember that he's holding the so called "Sword of Salvation"? If people mistook Soul Calibur for the S of S, that would be fine, but they all seem to believe that Soul Edge is the Sword of Salvation, since many seeking it are hunting Nightmare. Do they all die off without sharing this knowledge, or what? All the people who live seem to be taken as giving a [[Cassandra Truth]], ~~butteven~~ that is stretching it when the sword is in the hands of a mass murderer.

But apparently elects to not remember that he's holding the so called "Sword of Salvation"? If people mistook Soul Calibur for the S of S, that would be fine, but they all seem to believe that Soul Edge is the Sword of Salvation, since many seeking it are hunting Nightmare. Do they all die off without sharing this knowledge, or what? All the people who live seem to be taken as giving a [[Cassandra Truth]], but even that is stretching it when the sword is in the hands of a mass murderer.

** Pretty much no one really knows that Nightmare wields Soul Edge. Not even Ivy was aware while she ''stood next to him in his slaughters'', and she spent most of her life researching that sword. Also, there are very scarce survivors of Nightmare's massacres, so it's actually stated there are very few reports about his attacks, most of which happened during midnight (low visibility and all that stuff).

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* So how does everyone understand each other? Do they?

** I would assume they do. To the best of my knowledge, Ezio is the first character to actually break out into his native tongue (although Talim can be heard saying "Sipa" in ''II'', which is Tagalog for kick), and that's only during select quotes. [[Translation Convention|It would seem that everyone knows English, even when they shouldn't.]] However, this didn't hold true for ''Soul Edge/Soul Blade'', [[Bilingual Dialogue|where the Asian characters were left in Japanese]]. I don't quite have an answer for you, but there's a WMG here suggesting that since the soul swords are unnatural entities that warp the fabric of reality, they eventually broke down the language barriers on Earth once they grew powerful enough.

** Still, Mitsurugi and Arthur ''do'' suffer from ~~langauge~~ barriers, so that doesn't really cut it. All interactions outside those two, however, do happen without any communication problem, so it's really just a minor detail that hasn't really been taken into account.

** Still, Mitsurugi and Arthur ''do'' suffer from language barriers, so that doesn't really cut it. All interactions outside those two, however, do happen without any communication problem, so it's really just a minor detail that hasn't really been taken into account.

== On the character heights... ==

Nightmare is 5'6''. This is very silly.

* How so? He possessed Siegfried, whose height was 5'6" up until ''V''. And even when Nightmare was an [[Animated Armor]] in ''III'' and ''IV'', his body was still based off of his previous one (i.e. Siegfried's). If it's any consolation, his new host in ''V'' is 5'10".

== Artbook ==

Several of the articles talk about an art book for Soul Calibur V, which reveals secrets like {{spoiler|Lexia and Xiba being siblings}} and {{spoiler|Nightmare using Raphael's body as a host}}. Is this the same art book included in the collector's edition?