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Violence Really Is the Answer: Difference between revisions
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== Comics ==
* The [[Old Man Logan]] arc of ''[[Wolverine]]'' turns out this way. 50 years after becoming an [[Actual Pacifist]], a cross-country errand to earn enough money to save his family leads Logan into a confrontation where violence is unavoidable, as he's locked in a room with someone trying to kill him. <ref> Unfortunately, after he defeats his foe and returns home, it turns out he should have resorted to violence much earlier.</ref>
* A [[The Golden Age of Comic Books|Golden Age]] Comic Book story featuring the Guardian and the Newsboy Legion had them interact with two pacifist brothers who'd isolated themselves in their house for years because of the world's warlike ways. Enemy spies break into the house for some reason (possibly to use it as a hideout, or to steal the brothers' stashed money to fund their spy ring) and it's only by the Guardian's use of applied force that the spies are defeated. The brothers grasp the intended Aesop, that if you don't confront evil, it will eventually come in after you.
* The original run of ''Hawk And Dove'' had this as a message. Of course, if you're going to be a superhero, it's implied that you have to fight people, ''Dove''.
* Both played straight and inverted in ''[[Transmetropolitan]]''. By the end of the series, Spider has personally killed more than a dozen people (mostly in self defense) and has committed assault on hundreds, if not thousands. But he also carries around a mostly nonviolent, if uncomfortable, weapon (the Bowel Disruptor, which is [[Exactly What It Says on the Tin]]) and almost all real change is effected through the written word rather than the alternative.
* [[Superman]], in his early [[Post-Crisis]] years, infamously killed several (depowered) villains who'd [[Omnicidal Maniac|killed their worlds]] and threatened to get their powers back and do the same to Earth-DC; Supes was left tormented as a result. It strengthened his resolve to ''always'' find another way from then on.
* A crossover between [[The Punisher]] and Deathlok (A pacifist man in the body of a killing machine) featured this. The climax of the story has Frank killing a man threatning the life of Deathlok's son. Deathlok initially objects, and Frank says that he didn't have a choice. Deathlok gets ready to argue, but then decides that this time, he was right, and thanks him for saving his son's life.
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{{quote|''"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent"''.}}
** One of [[H. Beam Piper]]'s stories subverted Asimov's maxim, stating that violence is the last resort of the incompetent because "Only the incompetent wait until the last extremity to use force, and by then, it is usually too late to use anything, even prayer."
* This trope was inverted in ''In The Presence of Mine Enemies'' by [[Harry Turtledove]], when the quiet programmer is mocked by his supervisor for not having the conviction to go join the riots against a coup... and then once he's left alone changes a geneological database and anonymously alerts the "good guys" to the "discovery" in a move which does far more to undermine the coup than any individual bottlethrower could imagine (and the POV characters who are protesting physically do little violence but simply shame the coup mooks into not killing them for hours until the mooks are EAGER to surrender to the "good guys" military forces).
** He also has a short story in which the Nazis take over India, and Gandhi tries his nonviolent civil disobedience methods against them. It ends with his movement horribly crushed, and on his way to be executed Gandhi laments his mistake in assuming basic human decency on the part of the Nazis, the moral being that such methods can only hope to defeat a hypocritical oppressor with a conscience.
*** He went one step further in his ''Worldwar'' series, suggesting that violence is not only the answer, but our '''salvation'''. Humanity's constant strife and warfare has made it so 'perfidious' and battle-ready that we continually take the technologically advanced but strategically stagnant alien invaders by surprise with our double-dealing and resourcefulness- ex. [[Crowning Moment of Awesome|pissing on a sensor and freaking out an analyst, who swore up and down that '4 billion Big Uglies' were coming right at them.]]
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* Essentially the point of ''[[Starship Troopers]]'' (the novel, anyway.)
** It is notable that the page quote is from the Verhoeven movie, and makes very little sense. Hiroshima's founders were already dead of old age by 1945 (its atomic bombing), rebuilding from the bombing in 1959 (when the novel was written), a thriving city again by the 1990s (when the movie was filmed), and its city leaders today regularly hold commemmorations calling for the ban on nuclear weapons. In the novel, he uses Carthage as the example.
** The book was about the question of what a citizen owed in exchange for his political privileges, as Heinlein points out that Americans do not -earn- their citizen status. Violence wasn't the answer provided society was well-governed, but violence was the ultimate, final way in which disputes were settled. Hence, all authorities ultimately must be backed by force or they are toothless. Heinlein's novel featured a [[Mary Suetopia]] earth where nearly everyone was law-abiding, rights were extended to all regardless of race and gender (revolutionary in his time), and civil society was idealized. He contrasts this with a much-more-violent [[After the End|post-war]] collapse of civil order. Violence against the Bugs was inevitable because neither humanity nor the Bugs would cede their unlimited expansion throughout the universe. Violence is also used to convince the Skinnies to switch sides in the war. The point that violence is a means to an end, and not an end, is [[Anvilicious|frequently]] brought up, only a bit less than the whole [[Author Filibuster|citizenship issue]]. Heinlein was [[Author Tract|preaching]] [[
* ''[[Redwall]]''. No matter how much the Abbot insists that Violence Is Wrong, Cluny's horde ends up being defeated by... violence. In fact, pretty much every book in the series has the message "violence is OK if you're killing evil creatures", and even among the normally peaceful Redwallers, only a few characters are ever bothered by having killed an enemy.
** And the ones that are bothered are usually instantly rounded on by the other characters, chastised for their softness/naivete.
* Many L.E. Modesitt novels end up with the protagonist reluctantly using their magic or technology to become a [[Person of Mass Destruction]] and completely destroying an enemy city, nation, or ''entire planet'', because they need to make sure there is no way that the enemy will be able to start another war, ever again, no matter what.
* Being a [[Technical Pacifist]] (albeit one who [[Combat Pragmatist|fights dirty]]), Sam Vimes in the ''[[Discworld]]'' books frequently finds himself in situations where he is pressured to have to kill his enemies but tries to avoid it. ''The Fifth Elephant'' presents a good example, where Lady Margolotta, the mentor and/or pupil of [[Magnificent Bastard]] Lord Vetinari, shows her cunning credentials by aiding the villain so he will go after Vimes' wife, putting Vimes in a situation where it is apparent that he has no choice but to kill, knowing that the villain (a werewolf with [[Nigh Invulnerability]]) will always come back against the ones he loves. Vimes does end up killing, fully aware of being set up by Lady Margolotta, and [[Lampshade Hanging|notes how]] he won't deliver a [[Bond One-Liner]] because he believes that it's the only thing separating self-defense and murder.
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== Live Action TV ==
* ''[[The Sarah Jane Adventures]]'' has a variant on this in ''Enemy of the Bane''. Sarah Jane tells Clyde "There are better ways to solve a problem than guns", only for two of the Bane to get killed by Kaagh's blaster and {{spoiler|the Brigadiers gun-cane}}. Seems like having a gun around might have its uses...
* ''[[Bully Beatdown]]''. Someone messing with you? Let's put him in a cage with a Mixed Martial Arts fighter.
* Showed up in a form in ''[[Farscape]]'': "The Peacekeeper Wars." Our heroes try to run away from the conflict and when they realize they can't do that, they spend the bulk of the miniseries attempting to facilitate a diplomatic solution. In the end, though, the only thing that can stop the bloodshed is more bloodshed- a wormhole weapon destructive enough to force the two sides into accepting the diplomatic solution.
** Also many of the Zhaan spotlight plots have her succeeding through physical or psychic violence despite her pacifist ideals, especially the Maldis episodes and "Look at the Princess".
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== Tabletop Games ==
* ''[[Exalted]]'' has something of a theme that most problems in Creation can be solved, at least temporarily, by punching the right being in the face. The main risk is that today's necessary puncher becomes tomorrow's punchee.
** Exalted also tends to assert that violence can 'solve' problems, but will often create bigger problems in the process.
* Surprisingly enough, Warhammer 40000 could be argued to have an example of this in some of the stories around the Tyranids (and Tau). Usually, violence is utterly futile against the Tyranid (Space Bugs/Mammals/Reptiles/Something numerous enough to take down the armies and navies of entire systems just by clogging vehicles with their corpses) which forces anyone hoping to stand against them to produce alternate methods.
** Of course, these 'alternate methods' usually consist of either poisoning them or diverting their attention. Still, [[Violence Really Is the Answer|Science Really is the Answer!]]
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** ''[[Suikoden II]]'' is probably one of the best examples of an exception. In most endings, the major conflict is resolved just by successfully seizing an important location. In the best ending, {{spoiler|the more personal conflict for Riou is resolved by confronting Jowy at the stone where they promised to meet back up at the beginning of the game ''and allowing Jowy to beat him [[Death Is Cheap|to death.]]'' He gets better.}}
** There's also ''[[Phantom Brave]]'', where the Big Bad Demon Sulphur is pushed out of the dimension by the [[Power of Friendship]], sacrifice, tears and blood. Then he just comes back at full power as a [[Bonus Boss]] and it turns out [[Level Grinding]] and hitting him really, really, ''really'' hard works better.
* In ''[[Dragon Age II]]'', this is averted. Killing {{spoiler|Orsino and Meredith}} does secure the survival of Hawke and his/her [[True Companions]], but it doesn't prevent the {{spoiler|Mage-Templar war.}}
== Web Comics ==
* A big theme of ''[[Schlock Mercenary]]'' - when it comes down to it, the galaxy is best protected by heavily armed (and [[Heroic Sociopath|vaguely sociopathic]]) mercenaries who laugh at collateral damage.
* The "That Which Redeems" arc in ''[[Sluggy Freelance]]'' has a morally complex take on this. When the demons of the Dimension of Pain invade the [[Actual Pacifist|ridiculously pacifistic]] Dimension of Lame, nobody is willing to violently oppose them except for Torg, who is from the main story dimension. It is pointed out that left to its own devices, the DoL would be a paradise, but the invasion makes violence necessary.
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