Hey, you seem to be familiar with quite a few Marvel movies. By any chance, have you seen Age of Ultron yet? If you haven't I won't go on due to spoilers but I feel that he's worth discussing because I felt that he was an easy qualifier due to what I saw in the trailers, but from what I've read (I haven't seen it. Hell, the only Marvel Cinematic Universe movies I've seen are the Iron Man movies. I'm way behind on everything!) he's a bit more complex and may not qualify. I don't know: if you've seen the movie, I wouldn't mind seeing if what I've read is lacking context or if it's being misinterpreted as being truly redeemable or whatever... ah what the hell, I'm blabbering on mindlessly at this point. if you've seen it, let's talk Ultron and get my questions answered. If not, oh well.
Topic on User talk:DocColress
I haven't seen the movie yet and probably won't until the weekend after this coming weekend, so I have no opinion on him now. I've heard that he shows care for Scarlet Witch at one point, but I'd have to see the scene play out in order to determine whether or not it's actually genuine. Because aside from that he does sound close to qualifying...
Hey, why are you getting rid of the spoiler tags on the CM pages? We're not TV Tropes (Like you've said to me in regards to their images policy), we shouldn't have to follow their rules on spoilers. A lot of monsters do VERY spoilerific things, with the identity of some or the parts they play in a story being spoilers in and of themselves. This was hardly an issue before, so why fix what isn't broken?
I haven't gotten rid of ALL spoiler tags on the CM Pages - I just decided that they shouldn't be over-used, since it's really only the BIG spoilers that should be tagged. Some of the things that got spoiler tagged are at this point something of common knowledge for people who've even so much as heard of the series and characters. If a villains monstrosity is well known, their descriptions ought to be as non-spoilered as possible as to give people clear ideas for what in canon backs up the conception of them as monsters.
It still doesn't feel right to me though. I mean, not EVERYONE will know certain plot twists or deeds that make a villain notable (Assuming I'm making any sense), and navigating through a spoiler is as easy as clicking and scrolling over the spoilers. Like I said before, there was nothing wrong beforehand, and I don't see the need to "fix things".
Spoiler tags have never been consistent here, though - some whole entries or entire pages were already completely spoiler free, like Ace Attorney, Dragon Ball, and Yu-Gi-Oh. The ultimate roles of villains like Ghetsis, Wiseman/Death Phantom, and Dark Bakura are technically spoilers and yet their entries were unspoilered for a while now. I figure rather than having to add spoiler tags to more entries, we cut down on the amount of what gets spoiler tagged in entries. I personally just thinks it looks better that way - damn near entire entries shouldn't have to be covered in white.
Well, I disagree. This getting dangerously close to TV Tropes territory and to be honest, I don't like it in the slightest. You have a problem with spoilers? Click. Scroll over. It takes maybe half a second.
When has TV Tropes ever been picky about their spoiler tags? We may disagree here, but I seriously don't think cutting down on spoiler tags damages the trope any. Again, it's not like ALL the spoiler tags got removed. I'm fine leaving the rest of the spoilers as they are.
I'm sorry I wigged out over spoilers, it's just that TV Tropes adopted a no-spoilers rule in regards to some things, and I was a bit worried that the same would happen here. In fact, I trimmed down on spoilers a bit too in regards to the Zelda page.
But that's not important, as the important thing is that I've been continuing playing through Xenoblade. I should be ready to propose Lorithia if I feel that she's worth discussing (Though when I mentioned her earlier, I misattributed one of her crimes to another character. My bad!) in a few days, but for now I want some help with another character I've been wondering about.
He's an early-game villain named Xord, and like Metal Face he's a Faced Mechon: a Homs (Xenoblade human) who has been assimilated by the Mechon (Evil robotic creatures) and placed into a towering robotic body. Despite being basically the game's starter villain however, he's quite nasty indeed. Like Metal Face he's introduced in a brief cutscene leading a horde of lesser Mechon in an assault on the human establishment of Colony 6, burning the city to the ground and basically leaving it a crater, and actually does a more thorough job than Metal Face since the only refugees from the city are a sniper, her brother, and a few other civilians not able to fight. Anyone captured alive by Xord and his crew are taken down to the mines below the colony where he ate them all, and recalls it with a disgusting glee before laughing about it to Sharla's (the sniper) face, and gets sickeningly giddy when remarking that her little brother (A young child) will "make a tasty dessert!" He's killed soon after this, and no tears are shed after his demise.
Yet, there's one major problem and that's with the creation of Faced Mechon. It's like I said, the guy in charge of the Mechon, Egil, has Homs assimilated into gigantic Mechon and uses them as troops for his army. Before anything is cast into doubt, Metal Face has absolutely no problems with Moral Agency: he willingly sold out his own species and did all sorts of evil acts to spite an old friend he was jealous of. Xord on the other hand... I can't tell to be honest.
On one hand, he's certainly not fully brainwashed because later on long after Xord dies, Egil starts assuming direct control over his Faced Mechon and begins wiping their memories since the earlier Faced Mechon are too attached to their previous lives (which is what got Metal Face killed, he was too obsessed with spiting his former friend) and Xord is bursting with personality as he's an incredibly hammy, sadistic, gluttonous brute not to mention that he's explicitly bought up as an example as a Faced Mechon attached to their previous life, yet he states that he has some trouble remembering details from his previous life (He knows his name was Xord but that's all he discusses), and we have no idea what he was like in his previous life (he has a daughter back in Colony 9) so for all we know: he could have either been a good man in his previous life or he could have been unlikable before then.
Other than that though, there's nothing suggesting that he's being forced to do evil against his will: he mentions while dying that his eyes were opened in regards to the truth about Shulk's weapon (The Monado, and that it was wielded by a very evil god who from what I can tell does count as he's listed on TV Tropes) meaning that he very may be willingly helping Egil lay waste to all organic life (But it's not a redeeming quality: he just enjoys killing and devouring Homs and his relationship with Egil isn't disclosed) and while dying shows no regrets for what he's done ("Was a good ride while it lasted" in his own words).
He's basically without any redeeming qualities and I'd say that he's easily as heinous as Metal Face on the scale that they occupy (Albeit not as spiteful, petty, and vindictive), yet I just can't tell if his status as a Faced Mechon (albeit pre-brainwashing) hurts his moral agency to the point to where he doesn't count. I don't know! I'm sorry this question is super long, but I just want to make sure that every detail regarding him is here for you to see so you can decide for yourself.
Well I'm not touching any more spoiler tags anyway - the trope pages look good as they are now.
If Xord is still attached to his previous life, than that suggests he was something of a killer or sadistic bully prior to becoming a Faced Mechon. If we assume he's a CM, there's a perfect comparison to him: Shrieker from Bleach. He also was one of THE earliest appearing villains in the series, he too had a hammy and sadistic personality, and was established to be a Serial Killer as a human before he became a Hollow and that he still has the memories and personality of his previous life in tact. Going by that, I'd say Xord is also a solid qualifier.
He was a blacksmith back at Colony 9 though, there's no reason to assume that he was a murderer or jerk... though he DID fight in the military as well and went missing during his time of service, so for all we know he could have grown a liking for killing others before becoming a Mechon. I don't know, there's very little information surrounding his life as a Homs besides the fact that he was a master craftsman and that he joined the military. I'll put him up then, so thanks for clearing things up with me.
EDIT: Looked back at what his daughter says, she never states that he misses him, just that he was a master craftsman and no indication that he loved her. In fact, she was more bothered by the fact that she couldn't keep his shop open and thus had nothing else to do than the fact that he went missing.
Someone discovering they enjoy killing upon their first kill is not unheard of. The indication seems to be that he became a Blood Knight due to his military services and that led him down the path to becoming a Mechon.
Alright, I've played far enough that I'm ready to propose Lorithia and see what your thoughts on her.
Basically, she's the minister of defense for the High Entia empire and pretends to be a loyal servant to Emperor Sorean Antiqua as well as a friend to his daughter Melia, yet she assists her racist stepmom in attempting to have her assassinated for... well, reasons that are never actually made clear on Lorithia's end (Melia's stepmom wants her dead purely for being half-Homs which she views as sullying her bloodline). So that's bad, but nothing too heinous, right?
Well, she also happens to be a member of a trinity devoted to Zanza, the god of the Bionis (an enormous titan where all organic life is born. It's weird to explain) who wishes to eliminate all life living on it and recreate it so he can constantly devour their ether (Life Force). She and Dickson (Who counts as a Complete Monster) willingly sold out their own kind so they could get access to godlike power and thus willingly help usher in the apocalypse and obtain immortality when Zanza recreates the world.
Along with helping bring about doomsday, she gets a scene where she betrays and forcibly transforms a large amount of High Entia soldiers (Including their prince) into Telethia, mindless rampaging monsters that only exist to destroy other life and collect ether for Zanza. The transformation process is shown to be nightmarish and agonizing and is treated as one of the game's most horrific events by far. And it gets worse when during her boss fight, she assimilates herself with the Telethia that Melia's brother was transformed into with the intention of forcing him to kill his beloved sister as a sick "present" for her.
Basically she's a very haughty, ruthless, and an all-around cold-blooded woman who has no redeeming qualities to speak of. I want to know though: when compared to her partner Dickson, do you think she's heinous enough to count? Like with Lorithia, Dickson at first seems like a cool, friendly old guy but is revealed to be a cold-blooded monster who shoots Shulk in the back and releases Zanza since he refused to kill the Mechon Leader Egil and reveals that despite adopting Shulk and acting as a father figure to him, he was only grooming him so he can serve as a vessel for Zanza. He goes on to assault the party with a herd of Telethia before Lorithia shows up and transforms the soldiers sent to stop him, goes on to lead another attack on the rebuilt Colony 6 with the intention of murdering all the survivors gathered there on top of helping Zanza annihilate all life in exchange for power.
I'm unsure on this one. If she's on the same side as Dickson and does similar things yet doesn't stand out as much as he does, she might not count. However she does seem to fit the criteria, so...
If you're unsure, I won't add her or anything since I understand your hesitation completely. She and Dickson both are without any redeeming qualities whatsoever, though Dickson is more involved with the story. She seems more like a YMMV example since she comes off as a monster thanks to her role in bringing about the end of the world, but doesn't quite commit as many evil deeds as Dickson aside from when she forcibly transforms the High Entia into Telethia.
Putting her as a potential exmaple in YMMV sounds best.