Values Dissonance/Anime and Manga: Difference between revisions

== Specific ==

* ''[[Gunslinger Girl]]'': Any Italian would find all of the relationships including between the adults to be unspeakably cold and distant as the artists, due to cultural projection, have depicted them as Japanese relationships might be, instead of as the very physical Italians would act.

** Though that ''could'' be excused by thinking that they are very, very uncomfortable in dealing with those girls and it's shown this way.

* In ''[[Fruits Basket]]'', Kisa Sohma, the Tiger of the Zodiac, is bullied by her classmates, who gang up on her because she has a different hair colour from the rest of her class. As a result, she becomes mute, and leaves school. Her teacher writes her a letter "encouraging" her to return. In it, the teacher seems aware that Kisa is being tormented, but she also seems to suggest that it's ''Kisa's'' behaviour that is causing the trouble, not the bullies'. She asks how Kisa can expect her classmates to like her when she obviously doesn't like herself, apparently skipping over the fact that it was her peers' tormenting of her that caused Kisa's self-loathing in the first place (she despised the fact that she was "too weak" to stand up to her classmates). Some have interpreted this to mean that the episode places the blame on Kisa's shoulders, saying that she should be strong enough to face the bullies alone, without relying on adult intervention. This is very different from the Western approach, which would punish the bullies first and foremost. However, Yuki says that the way to self-esteem is "to have someone tell you that they like you", i.e. outside support is a necessary condition for inner strength. So far as we know, the bullies are never punished, and eventually it's all about Kisa learning to stand on her own. But the episode still expresses the idea that it's good for Kisa to seek outside support, even if it's just emotional support.

** Something similar happened in ''[[Sukeban Deka]]'' live-action episode 10, where Saki told the girl who was being bullied into shoplifting that she is not handling the situation properly by not saying no. She listens and says no, gets beat up, then Saki comes in and beats the bullies up. Since Saki is an undercover police agent, this ''could'' be interpreted in the Western sense of getting an authority to intervene, but only the adult ringleader (who also committed murder) gets arrested, and Saki seems to be beating them up as an example for a fellow student to follow, not as an agent.

* ''[[Pet Shop of Horrors]]'', mentioned above, runs into a ''lot'' of values dissonance, as many of its episodes have an odd, twisted kind of moral to them. They often come off as Count D being a bloodthirsty bastard rather than an Aesop-dispenser. Sometimes, it's unclear if this is dissonance between Western and Japanese values, Count D's and the other characters' values, or the readers' and the mangaka Akino's values. But in most cases, we're clearly ''supposed'' to find Count D's values unconventional and shocking.

** A good example is one episode where the man who has "vengeance" visited on him is implied throughout to have murdered his wife by pushing her over the railing of a cruise ship. {{spoiler|Turns out she jumped, because she overheard him talking to the woman he was actually in love with. It seems that she was a huge bitch who always had to have whatever she wanted, and she decided she wanted him and railroaded him into it. She became "heartbroken" at their words and killed herself.}} The story still seems to treat him as if he's to blame, and his fate is treated as a {{spoiler|[[Karmic Death]]}}.

** Things get ''really'' weird in ''Pet Shop of Horrors: Tokyo'', which starts blatantly imposing the "rules" of the animal kingdom directly on to humans. Take the first story, "Domestic": {{spoiler|A victim of domestic violence dies, but it's treated as a happy ending by Count D because she protected her son.}} The pet the woman gets is not to save her, but to ensure that she fulfills her role as a woman and mother: defending her young to the last. The Count has no remorse for his actions, {{spoiler|basically sending her to her death}}, because that is apparently Nature's Way. It becomes increasingly difficult to tell if this is a strategy to de-humanize the Count after he becomes notably more compassionate in the first series (which would be in-universe Values Dissonance), or whether Akino herself supports this view. [[Her Heart Will Go On|Men don't get off lightly either]] -- see "Double-Booking".

** Also, our very first introduction to Count D in the manga chapter "Dream": Angelique's actions were no doubt seen as selfish and overly emotional to a Japanese audience, but to Americans she seemed to be motivated by love for her pet, and her punishment came across as over-top cruel. Yes, she broke the rules. But even if she hadn't, her bird would still have been eviscerated, and Count D ''never even warned her''.

* In the RSE arc of the ''[[Pokémon Special]]'' manga, one of the protagonists Ruby (10) runs away from home to compete in Contests. Eventually, Norman, his father, [https://web.archive.org/web/20131113013644/http://jb2448.info/Pokemon_Adventures_17/17-051 finds him] in a ruin, and starts [https://web.archive.org/web/20141124013903/http://jb2448.info/Pokemon_Adventures_17/17-054 beating him to a pulp]. ''[https://web.archive.org/web/20141124013908/http://jb2448.info/Pokemon_Adventures_17/17-055 He then uses his Slaking to rip out the stair his son is standing on, (almost hitting a bystander), and dangles him, over the edge of the building]''. His son is finally forced to start fighting back, until the floor collapses, with them [https://web.archive.org/web/20131113043320/http://jb2448.info/Pokemon_Adventures_17/17-067 both dangling over the edge], they just miss some metal debris, Ruby is knocked out, and his father stands to start battling again, before conceding [["Well Done, Son" Guy|his son's goal]]. Then we get [https://web.archive.org/web/20130510101429/http://jb2448.info/Pokemon_Adventures_17/17-071 this].

** The incident had more behind it due to an event in the trio's common past. {{spoiler|A berserk wild Salamence attacked a young Ruby and Sapphire in its frenzy. Ruby took a horrible scar from Salamence's attack, and his innate gift at Pokémon battling let him repulse the frenzied beast, but he felt such influence tainted Sapphire's crystal heart. He has since shunned all forms of battle and sought instead to focus on Contests, swearing never to fight in the public square again. Norman, on the other hand, covered up the incident; not only was he banned from Gym Certification for at least five years, he also had to seek out Rayquaza (Norman had developed a way to capture Rayquaza, but the Salamence destroyed it in the attack). His sacrifice made Ruby's disdain towards his training sting that much more, and the two have been at odds ever since.}}

** In the ''[[Pokémon (anime)|Pokémon]]'' anime, Zoey/Nozomi's behavior and tone of voice toward Dawn/Hikari were changed in the dub. She acted pleasantly toward Dawn, had a sweeter tone of voice and constantly complemented her; it seemed like she [[Les Yay|had a crush on Hikari]]. Nozomi's original rough and tumble attitude could easily have been misconstrued by the censors as imitable rude behavior and a lack of good sportsmanship, so her overall manner was softened for the dub, adding yet more fuel to the shippers' fire.

** ''[[Magical Pokémon Journey]]'' has two gay characters and ''[[How I Became a Pokémon Card]]'' had a [[Transsexualism]] protagonist. Considering these manga were aimed at children, it wouldn't fly as easily in some places.

** ''[[Pocket Monsters (manga)|Pocket Monsters]]'' has shown the genitalia of the protagonist and his Pokemon several times.

* In ''[[Sailor Moon]]'', the romance of the story involves a junior high school student involved with a college student. In Japan, Mamoru is the butt of a few jokes at worst -- in North America, he would be arrested. In the manga (and in its more faithful adaptation ''[[Sailor Moon Crystal]]'') he's just a highschooler and not much older than Usagi herself. However, Japanese culture still generally approves of relationships with a gap like this despite the jokes, as the older man is seen as more capable of protecting the younger girl.

** Also in the German dub: In the beginning of the ''SuperS'' season Usagi remarks how she is now 16 years old, thus old enough for a "real love" - which implies that she and Mamoru - which age was left as it was - did not consummate their relationship yet, since Usagi was too young. In Germany the age of consent is graduated - 14 years is the age of consent with other minors. 16 for sex with adults. (and with 18 you're an adult.).

** Furthermore, there's the lesbians Haruka and Michiru. In America, they became the [[Hide Your Lesbians|cousins]] Amara and Michelle. But you could still tell Amara and Michelle were lesbians, making this a case of [[Kissing Cousins]]. Both lesbians and cousins being romantically involved aren't looked down upon quite as much in Japan as in the US, so...

** Also, the fact that ''[[Sailor Moon]]'' was viewed as a children's series surprises many Western viewers. The show's sexuality did cause some controversy in Japan (including the aforementioned lesbians), which caused [[She's a Man In Japan|Toei to change Seiya into a boy]].

** Interestingly enough, with how much the gay rights movement has advanced in the U.S. in the past decade, the decisions by DiC (with Zoisite and Malachite in the first season) and Cloverway (aforementioned example) to [[Hide Your Gays]] in the American dubs are already approaching [[Values Dissonance]]. They'd still likely make the same decision now, but it would be met with considerably more controversy now than it was. With more and more gay teens choosing to [[Coming Out Story|Come Out]] younger and younger, the American idea that homosexuality is a child-unfriendly topic has been increasingly challenged in recent years.

* The general attitudes on sexuality is always a bit played for laughs in ''[[Ranma ½]]'', but there are some [[Unfortunate Implications/Anime|cringe-worthy moments]]. Most notably, a short arc concerning a [[Stalker with a Crush]] named Tsubasa Kurenai, who was obsessed with Ukyo. The on-going gag was that everybody assumed Tsubasa was a girl, and 'her' lesbian crush on Ukyo was [[Played for Laughs]]. Towards the end, male!Ranma attempted to ''cure'' Tsubasa's lesbianism by asking her out on a date.

** In his subsequent [[Filler|anime-exclusive appearance]], when Maomolin the Bakaneko tries to take the male Tsubasa as his wife, Tsubasa declares that if that's his lifestyle, then good for him, but Tsubasa himself is most certainly not interested.

** The anime's slightly different take on the Kasumi/Tofu "relationship" (mainly A: keeping Tofu around and thus giving him the occasional chance to pop up and be stupid because of Kasumi, and B: having Akane be a [[Shipper on Deck]] for the "couple") in ''[[Ranma ½]]'' could be viewed in a similar fashion to the way ''[[Maison Ikkoku]]'' handled its [[May-December Romance]].

** Nodoka Saotome and her [[Seppuku]] pledge; a Western attitude would have been to dismiss the stupid thing on several grounds (she never agreed to it -- it was Genma who declared he'd do it and then wrote it up before running off, she really does love her son and doesn't want to have to kill him, the pledge is so ambiguous as to be impossible to live up to it). The Japanese attitude is that Nodoka is, while suffering, a good, loyal, dutiful woman to keep it alive and be consoled to murdering her own family if she decides they haven't lived up to it. Being willing to commit suicide herself after executing them is seen as romantically tragic.

** The teenage characters given or buying alcohol (such as from a vending machine or to celebrate like how alcohol was around to party during the Orachi arc) can be [[Values Dissonance]] for places that have strictly enforced no drinking/selling to policies for teens.

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