Topic on User talk:Gadg8eer

...for several reasons.

Number one is that it already exists -- With Us or Against Us (with a lower-case "or") has been on this site since the fork, and has even been edited twice in the last 24 hours.

Number two, even if it didn't already exist, the version you tried to submit is a word-for-word copy of TV Trope's main page for the trope. This is copyright infringement as any changes or additions to the page which we do not already have postdate the fork and TV Tropes' subsequent change of license in 2012. Further, it is also plagiarism because you are not the only author of the changes made to that page since the fork. Because All The Tropes and TV Tropes run under different Creative Commons licenses, content created there after 2012 cannot legally be used here without the express written approval of all the editors who contributed to it.

Number two-A, even if it could be legally used, the page is carelessly and badly translated into MediaWiki markup, and many links both internal and external are so badly coded that they are useless. It also lacks all the markup required to integrate it into the rest of the wiki, markup which would have been provided for you had you used the ATT Page Creator (found on the menu to the left) or the proper page template. It is, frankly, an unusable mess.

Number three, it is an attempt at proposing a trope, but was not created in the proper place for new trope candidates. Just like TV Tropes, we have a place where new tropes are created and worked on before they are added to the wiki proper. We call our version the Trope Workshop, which can also be found in the menu to the left. Or you could have just searched on "YKTTW", which would have brought you right there. New trope candidates flung willy-nilly into the main namespace indicate that their authors have not bothered to understand how we do things here.

Finally, we strongly recommend that you read All The Tropes:How We Do Bans Around Here. This isn't a threat -- this is the wiki policy strictly controlling how and when user bans can be applied by an Admin. We want you to be aware that unlike TVT, we do not ban users on whims or because we're cranky. But we'd like to emphasize that "Falsely representing oneself as having the right to authorize copying content from TV Tropes" is one of the very few ways there are to earn an immediate permaban here at ATT.

-- Looney Toons, admin

@Labster @Looney Toons @GethN7 @Robkelk @QuestionableSanity @Derivative @SelfCloak

Okay, I've read it immediately after seeing this. Furthermore, if the trope exists already, then I have no reason to submit it at all.

Finally... Does this mean I am permabanned for this? I've refrained from trying to make any edits since because after reading the issue with TV Tropes I didn't actually expect this to not get seen and rejected. I won't get this wiki into any legal trouble, I'm just trying to protest what seems to be a concertedly cruel and malicious effort by TV Tropes to control the very concept of trope wikis.

If you were permabanned, you would know. We would inform you that you were banned, and we would cite section and point from All The Tropes:How We Do Bans Around Here to explain why.

If your concern is whether you qualified for a ban under "falsely asserting the right to authorize copying", no, not yet. That item is more for the nimrods who go "oh sure I wrote it all lol" when we ask even though the most casual glance at the TVT page history will show otherwise. (And don't laugh, we've had a couple of those just in the past six months or so.)

Wait, seriously? I wasn't going to laugh, my immediate reaction was "figures, people can be such unrepentant and uncaring assholes".

My point is, even if I'm not banned already, I won't be causing you any more problems. Clearly I don't yet understand how this wiki is put together.

Instead, all I'd like to ask is if I could request a copy of ATT's xml backup. Having thought about it, I don't plan to change or ignore the Creative Commons licence you use, only to host a wiki that does not censor anything (provided that the content being uncensored is an actual thing from a work of fiction that exists and not complete lies, and that subjective tropes cannot contain fetish or fan-made content because such tropes cannot be fully defined) and has styling similar to early TV Tropes but otherwise takes the route this wiki has.

You're welcome to start your own, but I think you'll probably have a hard time censoring less than we do unless you dramatically expand the scope of the wiki, since we don't have to kowtow to advertisers, and what little censorship we do have is the bare minimum required by UK law (because that's where our servers live). You'll either have to accept blatantly illegal content, or turn into something other than a tropes wiki. That said, @GethN7, can you help Gadg8eer with a content dump? Being a dumb editorial-type person, I don't recall how to arrange one.

As for understanding how the wiki goes together and works, well, we're kind of to blame for not organizing the relevant info properly. I started a project to rationalize everything in the "All The Tropes" namespace and set up some good entrypoints that could lead users to everything they need to know, but abandoned it partially done about a year ago. (I need to go back to that, I really do.) Fortunately, what I did accomplish before that should give you a couple places to start an informative wiki walk or two:

• User:Looney Toons/sandbox/Policy Page Drafts/Central Policy Page
• User:Looney Toons/sandbox/Policy Page Drafts/FAQs

EDIT: Oh, wait. Guess what I just found linked off the first of those? All The Tropes:Content Dumps. That should have everything you need.