Watsonian Versus Doylist: Difference between revisions

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{{trope}}
{{Useful Notes}}
{{quote|''There are ''no'' inconsistencies in the [[Discworld]] books; occasionally, however, [[No Except Yes|there are alternate pasts]].''|'''[[Terry Pratchett]]''' on alt.fan.pratchett, wearing his Watsonian hat.}}
{{quote|''There are ''no'' inconsistencies in the [[Discworld]] books; occasionally, however, [[No Except Yes|there are alternate pasts]].''|'''[[Terry Pratchett]]''' on alt.fan.pratchett, wearing his Watsonian hat.}}


{{quote|''Maybe [the Patrician in ''[[Discworld (Literature)/The Colour of Magic|The Colour of Magic]]''] was Vetinari, but written by [[Self Deprecation|a more stupid writer?]]''|'''[[Terry Pratchett]]''' on alt.fan.pratchett, wearing his Doylist hat.}}
{{quote|''Maybe [the Patrician in ''[[The Colour of Magic]]''] was Vetinari, but written by [[Self-Deprecation|a more stupid writer?]]''|'''[[Terry Pratchett]]''' on alt.fan.pratchett, wearing his Doylist hat.}}


'''Watsonian''' or '''in-universe''' commentary takes the reality of a work as given, and thus restricts itself to making statements that are sensible within that reality. Watsonian explanations are things like "Character X was lying", "He had plastic surgery over the summer", and "The main character fell off a cliff". A more precise technical term for this is ''intradiegetic''. Tropes which take a generally Watsonian perspective include:
'''Watsonian''' or '''in-universe''' commentary takes the reality of a work as given, and thus restricts itself to making statements that are sensible within that reality. Watsonian explanations are things like "Character X was lying", "He had plastic surgery over the summer", and "The main character fell off a cliff". A more precise technical term for this is ''[[intradiegetic]]''. Tropes which take a generally Watsonian perspective include:
* [[Authors Saving Throw]]
* [[Author's Saving Throw]]
* [[Retcon]]
* [[Retcon]]
* Some forms of [[Death of the Author]]
* Some forms of [[Death of the Author]]
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* [[Wild Mass Guessing]]
* [[Wild Mass Guessing]]


'''Doylist''' or '''out-of-universe''' commentary considers the work as a created object, and prefers explanations based on the real-world motivations or circumstances of the creators. Doylist explanations are things like "The author had a Better Idea", "The actor died, so they had to hire a new one", and "The author got sick of writing those books, so he killed off the main character". A technical term for this is ''extradiegetic''. Doylist tropes include:
'''Doylist''' or '''out-of-universe''' commentary considers the work as a created object, and prefers explanations based on the real-world motivations or circumstances of the creators. Doylist explanations are things like "The author had a Better Idea", "The actor died, so they had to hire a new one", and "The author got sick of writing those books, so he killed off the main character". A technical term for this is ''[[extradiegetic]]''. Doylist tropes include:
* [[Author Existence Failure]]
* [[Author Existence Failure]]
* [[Depending On the Writer]]
* [[Depending on the Writer]]
* [[Forgot About His Powers]]
* [[Forgot About His Powers]]
* [[Idiot Ball]] and all its subtropes
* [[Idiot Ball]] and all its subtropes
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The [[Literary Agent Hypothesis]] is a way of smuggling explanations that would otherwise be Doylist into a Watsonian paradigm, by introducing a fictional author.
The [[Literary Agent Hypothesis]] is a way of smuggling explanations that would otherwise be Doylist into a Watsonian paradigm, by introducing a fictional author.


As the page quotes suggest, most people aren't "pure" Watsonians or Doylists; they switch between modes as the occasion warrants. The terms reference [[Sherlock Holmes]]--where Watsonian commentary relates to the [[Literary Agent Hypothesis|in-universe author]] Dr. Watson, while Doylist commentary relates to the [[Real Life]] author Arthur Conan Doyle--but they seem to have originated (or at least been popularized) on the [[Lois McMaster Bujold|Bujold]] fan mailing list.
As the page quotes suggest, most people aren't "pure" Watsonians or Doylists; they switch between modes as the occasion warrants. The terms reference ''[[Sherlock Holmes]]''—where Watsonian commentary relates to the [[Literary Agent Hypothesis|in-universe author]] Dr. Watson, while Doylist commentary relates to the [[Real Life]] author Arthur Conan Doyle—but they seem to have originated (or at least been popularized) on the [[Lois McMaster Bujold|Bujold]] fan mailing list.


A modern example might be the proliferation of [[Rubber Forehead Aliens]] in ''[[Star Trek]]''. It is revealed in a Next Generation episode that an ancient humanoid race "seeded" the galaxy with their genes, thereby causing humanoid intelligent life to evolve independently throughout the Milky Way. This is a very Watsonian explanation. The Doylist explanation of the [[Rubber Forehead Aliens]] is simply that they are cheap to produce, require relatively little imagination, allow for the audiences to sympathize with alien characters, etc.
A modern example might be the proliferation of [[Rubber Forehead Aliens]] in ''[[Star Trek]]''. It is revealed in a ''Next Generation'' episode that an ancient humanoid race "seeded" the galaxy with their genes, thereby causing humanoid intelligent life to evolve independently throughout the Milky Way. This is a very Watsonian explanation. The Doylist explanation of the [[Rubber Forehead Aliens]] is simply that they are cheap to produce, require relatively little imagination, allow for the audiences to sympathize with alien characters, etc.


Sometimes a Doylist explanation is interjected purposely into a narrative; for example, in [[Monty Python and The Holy Grail]] the knights of the Round Table (or what is left of them) are chased by the Legendary Black Beast of "AAAAAAAARGH" in the common surreal [[Terry Gilliam (Creator)|Terry Gilliam]] style transitional animation. Fortunately for the heroes, when there is apparently no chance of escape the narrator explains that the animator suffered from a fatal heart attack - a beast that [[Giant Space Flea From Nowhere|arises out of nowhere]] and is killed by a surrealist [[Deus Ex Machina]] coming from a Doylist inclusion in the narrative.
Sometimes a Doylist explanation is interjected purposely into a narrative; for example, in ''[[Monty Python and the Holy Grail]]'' the Knights of the Round Table (or what is left of them) are chased by the Legendary Black Beast of AAAAAAAARGH in the common surreal [[Terry Gilliam]] style transitional animation. Fortunately for the heroes, when there is apparently no chance of escape the narrator explains that the animator suffered from a fatal heart attack—a beast that [[Giant Space Flea From Nowhere|arises out of nowhere]] and is killed by a surrealist [[Deus Ex Machina]] coming from a Doylist inclusion in the narrative.


{{examples}}
⚫
In German-speaking fandom of Disney's Duck comics, the two ways of analyzing the stories are called ''Donaldismus literaricus'' (which treats the work of Carl Barks and others as works of art and literature) and ''Donaldismus archaeologicus'' (which treats them as factual reports from the Earth-like planet called ''Stella Anatium'' - the Star of the Ducks). In the D.O.N.A.L.D. (''Deutsche Organisation Nichtkommerzieller Anhänger des lauteren Donaldismus'' = German Organization of Non-Commercial Adherents of True Donaldism) the latter tends to dominate. [[Donald Duck]] comics are [[Serious Business]], definitely.
== [[Comic Books]] ==
⚫
* In German-speaking fandom of Disney's Duck comics, the two ways of analyzing the stories are called ''Donaldismus literaricus'' (which treats the work of Carl Barks and others as works of art and literature) and ''Donaldismus archaeologicus'' (which treats them as factual reports from the Earth-like planet called ''Stella Anatium''—the Star of the Ducks). In the [[Fun with Acronyms|D.O.N.A.L.D.]] (''Deutsche Organisation Nichtkommerzieller Anhänger des lauteren Donaldismus'' = German Organization of Non-Commercial Adherents of True Donaldism) the latter tends to dominate. ''[[Donald Duck]]'' comics are [[Serious Business]], definitely.


== [[Fan Works]] ==
* ''[[My Apartment Manager is not an Isekai Character]]'': One character was magically twinned the in-universe day after she arrived. The Watsonian explanation is that she was alone, surrounded by people she was accustomed to thinking of as enemies, and desperate for somebody to talk with who understands her; the Doylist explanation is that two writers wanted to write the same character.
** Similarly, [http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=14519 one short-short story] was written to give a Watsonian explanation for why [[Haruhi Suzumiya]] doesn't appear in the setting (despite being admirably suited to it), when the Doylist explanation is simply none of the authors wanted to write anything with her and her supporting characters.


{{Featured article}}
{{reflist}}
{{reflist}}
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[[Category:{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Meta Concepts]]
[[Category:Meta Concepts]]
[[Category:Watsonian Versus Doylist]]
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[[Category:Trope]]

Latest revision as of 21:29, 26 October 2023


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    /wiki/Watsonian Versus Doylistwork
    There are no inconsistencies in the Discworld books; occasionally, however, there are alternate pasts.
    —Terry Pratchett on alt.fan.pratchett, wearing his Watsonian hat.
    Maybe [the Patrician in The Colour of Magic] was Vetinari, but written by a more stupid writer?
    —Terry Pratchett on alt.fan.pratchett, wearing his Doylist hat.

    Watsonian or in-universe commentary takes the reality of a work as given, and thus restricts itself to making statements that are sensible within that reality. Watsonian explanations are things like "Character X was lying", "He had plastic surgery over the summer", and "The main character fell off a cliff". A more precise technical term for this is intradiegetic. Tropes which take a generally Watsonian perspective include:

    Doylist or out-of-universe commentary considers the work as a created object, and prefers explanations based on the real-world motivations or circumstances of the creators. Doylist explanations are things like "The author had a Better Idea", "The actor died, so they had to hire a new one", and "The author got sick of writing those books, so he killed off the main character". A technical term for this is extradiegetic. Doylist tropes include:

    The Literary Agent Hypothesis is a way of smuggling explanations that would otherwise be Doylist into a Watsonian paradigm, by introducing a fictional author.

    As the page quotes suggest, most people aren't "pure" Watsonians or Doylists; they switch between modes as the occasion warrants. The terms reference Sherlock Holmes—where Watsonian commentary relates to the in-universe author Dr. Watson, while Doylist commentary relates to the Real Life author Arthur Conan Doyle—but they seem to have originated (or at least been popularized) on the Bujold fan mailing list.

    A modern example might be the proliferation of Rubber Forehead Aliens in Star Trek. It is revealed in a Next Generation episode that an ancient humanoid race "seeded" the galaxy with their genes, thereby causing humanoid intelligent life to evolve independently throughout the Milky Way. This is a very Watsonian explanation. The Doylist explanation of the Rubber Forehead Aliens is simply that they are cheap to produce, require relatively little imagination, allow for the audiences to sympathize with alien characters, etc.

    Sometimes a Doylist explanation is interjected purposely into a narrative; for example, in Monty Python and the Holy Grail the Knights of the Round Table (or what is left of them) are chased by the Legendary Black Beast of AAAAAAAARGH in the common surreal Terry Gilliam style transitional animation. Fortunately for the heroes, when there is apparently no chance of escape the narrator explains that the animator suffered from a fatal heart attack—a beast that arises out of nowhere and is killed by a surrealist Deus Ex Machina coming from a Doylist inclusion in the narrative.

    Examples of Watsonian Versus Doylist include:

    Comic Books

    • In German-speaking fandom of Disney's Duck comics, the two ways of analyzing the stories are called Donaldismus literaricus (which treats the work of Carl Barks and others as works of art and literature) and Donaldismus archaeologicus (which treats them as factual reports from the Earth-like planet called Stella Anatium—the Star of the Ducks). In the D.O.N.A.L.D. (Deutsche Organisation Nichtkommerzieller Anhänger des lauteren Donaldismus = German Organization of Non-Commercial Adherents of True Donaldism) the latter tends to dominate. Donald Duck comics are Serious Business, definitely.

    Fan Works

    • My Apartment Manager is not an Isekai Character: One character was magically twinned the in-universe day after she arrived. The Watsonian explanation is that she was alone, surrounded by people she was accustomed to thinking of as enemies, and desperate for somebody to talk with who understands her; the Doylist explanation is that two writers wanted to write the same character.
      • Similarly, one short-short story was written to give a Watsonian explanation for why Haruhi Suzumiya doesn't appear in the setting (despite being admirably suited to it), when the Doylist explanation is simply none of the authors wanted to write anything with her and her supporting characters.


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