User talk:Itasio

Regarding File:Rance X - Rance.png and File:Rance X - Sill.png:

It is very apparent that you didn't bother to read at least one of the pages I linked to in my first message to you on this page, or else you would have known that it is a legal requirement to include the license terms for any uploaded images. We are not TVT, we actually pay attention to our legal responsibilities. You have 48 hours -- until noon EDT on 23 April 2020 -- to add all required information to your uploads or they will be deleted as copyright violations. Combined with you uploading several hundred KB of content while failing to link a single cited trope, we're not terribly inclined now to be too forgiving.

I strongly recommend that you read All The Tropes:Uploading and Adding an Image to a Page to find out what is required of you when you upload an image.

Please reply in this thread and acknowledge you have read this message, have read that page, and that you understand and will comply. Failure to do so will result in a punitive tempban that will not be lifted.

-- Looney Toons, admin

CC: @Labster, @GethN7, @Robkelk, @QuestionableSanity, @Derivative, @SelfCloak

Speaking with my moderator hat on, I support @Looney Toons in this. We can get into serious legal trouble if we don't have this license information.

I have just read your message, and I apologize for the legal issue I've caused with my uploads. You can delete my uploaded images for now, I'll work on the tropes first: Most of the images of my original work were either taken from the Alicesoft Wiki, the official Rance X website or extracted from the game itself.

For the other pages, they are plain text copy paste of my own work on TVT, so I didn't link the tropes yet: I've started to do so on Rance/Characters/Nippon, mainly because it shares the same characters as Sengoku_Rance/Characters, so I'm not going to upload any image until I've finished to link the tropes.

Okay, I'm going to say this as plainly and clearly as I can: Do not create half-assed pages. If you don't have the tropes marked up, don't post the page. Do all the work offline first, before you put it up here. We are not a scratch pad, we are a site where value is in the interconnections between the information we present to the reader. If you continue to post what amounts to draft material in the main namespace -- especially in the bulk quantities you have been -- we will lock it all down, delete it and restore the original page to where it was before you blanked it.

-- Looney Toons, admin

CC: @Labster, @GethN7, @Robkelk, @QuestionableSanity, @Derivative, @SelfCloak

Following up: I have created a new character page that you can use as an example of what a character page is supposed to look like on All The Tropes (except that the second-last character on the page needs a writeup and some tropes) - see it here.

Especially, please note where the break lines are, and where they are not.

This page was created with the "Characters page" boilerplate that is available in the drop-down menu at the top of the wiki's "create a new page" screen. Using the boilerplate saves time in the long run, even (or especially) if all you do is load it into a blank page, copy it to a text file on your own machine, edit it offline, and upload the finished page to the wiki later.

An important detail on Rob's sample page that your pages have been missing is the mandatory page markup -- which is a page template at the top (which in the case of character pages like these is {{work}}) and on the bottom {{reflist}} followed by categories for the work name and the page type). All your content goes between them. Persistently creating pages without the necessary, required page markup is another thing that will get admins annoyed at you. We have invested quite a lot of time -- in some cases literally years -- in templating and automating as much of the page creation process as possible and go out of our way to point people at how to use it, so it is always somewhat irritating to see someone who ignores all that information and all those tools to just dump unformatted text into empty pages.

Also, another point: Do not go out of your way to pothole trope links so they have the same names they would on TVT. We forked from them almost ten years ago, of course our trope names are going to drift. When converting from ptitles to MediaWiki's rational page name support we may have punctuated things slightly different. We have definitely renamed a few. And of course those few we have that we created independently are as likely as not going to have a different name. It's stupid and extra work you don't need to do.

A third point: the {{examples}} template is only used on trope pages. {{tropelist}} is used on work pages and their subpages. This is important for several reasons. One is grammar and appearance -- they have different "default" texts that read oddly if you misuse them. Another is that we have automated systems that sweep the wiki and inform us when trope pages are missing examples templates, and when work pages are missing tropelist templates.

At the moment, the boilerplate uses "examples" instead of "tropelist". This is something that I need to fix.

If you create a new Characters page with the boilerplate before I've fixed the template, please note that we'll have to change these by hand.

EDIT: I found the boilerplate faster than I expected to. It's now fixed.

How'd that get past us? Gah. However I already fixed the few pages in the recent history where I noticed the examples template, which is what prompted my note above. Itasio, my apologies for assuming it was your error.

...but none of the tropes are marked up to link to their pages. Why?

You will be rectifying this, right?

-- Looney Toons, admin

CC: @Labster, @GethN7, @Robkelk, @QuestionableSanity, @Derivative, @SelfCloak

... to Rance/Characters but if it weren't so obvious you were in the process of restructuring it you would have been banned for blanking a page.

I have restored all the content you deleted inside a comment for future reference, because I noted that it had great deal of trope entries that your replacement didn't, and I would strongly recommend that unless you can prove them false or otherwise inaccurate you transplant them to your existing page, and any other pages you create. I also recommend that you carry over the image markups unless you plan to upload and insert all your own images (in which case I recommend you read All The Tropes:Uploading and Adding an Image to a Page before you even start).

Next: All The Tropes runs on MediaWiki, which means that unlike TV Tropes, we actually have a real tree structure for subpages. We do not plop subpages into the main namespace like a badly-hawked spitball. They descend from their parent page just like subdirectories under a main directory in any modern computer system. Thus, the page you created in the main space, "Rance Series - Rance and Sill‎", is both misplaced and misnamed. I have moved it to where it actually belongs, which is "Rance/Characters/Rance and Sill", and we expect that any future character pages will also be located under "Rance/Characters". To help you in this matter, I have already edited your version of "Rance/Characters" to point all its redlinks at the proper locations instead of the top level of the main namespace. You should also look into using the "Create New" button on every page for creating new subpages, and the ATT Page Creator for creating new "top level" pages (other than new tropes -- they go into the Trope Workshop). Both automate much of the process to make it easier.

Thirdly: When creating subpages, use the proper page markup, located in the proper places. Your "Rance and Sill" page was missing everything it needed to actually integrate properly into its place in the wiki. This one is vitally important.

I'm afraid this will have to be an official mod warning: If you persist in creating misplaced pages missing the necessary markup, you will be subject to tempbans for as long as it takes you to learn to do things correctly, or we give up on you. Please don't make us do that, as we're delighted to welcome folks from TVT bringing their work with them.

To help you get used to how we do things, I suggest you look at the following (suprisingly short) pages:

• All The Tropes:So You're a TV Tropes Refugee
• All The Tropes:Style Guide
• All The Tropes:Trope Workshop Guidelines
• All The Tropes:Uploading and Adding an Image to a Page
• All The Tropes:Copyrights
• All The Tropes:How We Do Bans Around Here (This is not to be construed as some manner of threat. Unlike TVT, we have guidelines for the admins and mods about what constitutes a bannable offense, and for how long to make bans; this page exists so users are fairly informed ahead of time instead of being sideswiped by Fighteer a bitchy mod who decides he doesn't like your tone and permabans you.)

All these and other useful articles can be found linked off of our Administrivia page.

Since I did give a formal warning above, I have to request that you reply and acknowledge the warning within two days -- call it noon Eastern Daylight Time on 18 April 2020. If you do not, you will be subject to a non-punitive "attention-getter" tempban until you do reply.

Thank you, and welcome again to All The Tropes.

-- Looney Toons, admin

CC: @Labster, @GethN7, @Robkelk, @QuestionableSanity, @Derivative, @SelfCloak, @Itasio

Hello Looney Toons,

I just discovered All the Tropes, so I didn't know much about the rules. Sorry if I gave the impression of misusing ATT or restructuring the pages.

I intended to use both my old work on TVTropes and the existing page on ATT, but I only used the very first entry (Rance and Sill) as a template for my own text to see how ATT works. I kept the former character page in a text file too as a reference when working on the page, but I didn't have time to work with it.

All of the red links you can see on the main character page are placeholders for my other pages (also from TVTropes), and I'd like to know how to properly create these pages using my old work, since they didn't exist beforehand. I tried to use the visual editor, so I'm not familiar with the page markup and former trope names, as TVTropes could have changed some tropes' names over time.

I'd like to rework the main series page too, ever since the series were officially released in English, giving changes to many character names and concepts.

Thank you for your quick answer.

Thanks for getting back to us. Since you have, no tempban will be forthcoming, let me reassure you!

Might I suggest that while you restructure things, including the main Rance page, you do it all offline and only replace the pages when everything is ready? Deleting a large amount of content only to replace it with an incomplete skeleton of changes to come deprives the wiki's users of that content in the mean time. For that reason alone I'm still tempted to restore the content you deleted -- if someone wanted to see any of it for any reason, it's now not there and won't be there until you finish up.

One way to get familiar with the markup and pathing and whatnot is to work in Source Editing, not to mention looking at the source for pages that look like what you want to do. You should probably stay away from visual editing unless you're doing relatively simple things, or until you're really comfortable with the wiki's underlying code. And creating a multi-level, multi-branching Characters section for a show is not a simple thing.

As far as finding trope names, there's not much we can do to help you there. If TVT changed the trope name, we wouldn't know that, and wouldn't have a way to connect the new name to what we use. On the other hand, we've renamed some tropes, but we've kept the old names as redirects so you can still search on them to find the new names. (In any case, it's always good to click through search results to make sure you get to the real page and not a redirect.)

And as for getting used to how ATT works, might I suggest you use your Sandbox? There's a link to it at the very top of every page, and you can do whatever you want there -- including create new pages for later transfer to the main namespace -- without affecting "live" content.

Anyway, if you have any questions at all, feel free to ask me or any of the other admins on our talk pages, or in the forums. And poke around on Administrivia for more info and help on how we do things.

-- Looney Toons