Talk:Workout Fanservice

It would be nice if we had pages for the redlinks -- and can I note that I'm surprised we don't already have a page for Psycho-Pass? -- but it is what it is. So I'm launching it.

Just here to say I now made a page for the series after being in my to-do list for two years. Still needs more everything in it.

Question, Looney, does "Workout Fanservice" need to be categorized into the "Original to All the Tropes?" Since I'm letting you know that this is base on an actual Tv Tropes page. Link: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WorkoutFanservice

Good question. Comparing the two, I would say if our page had been a complete original composition from scratch -- as opposed to rewriting each individual paragraph of the TVT page in order -- it would count as original to us. As it is... it's iffy. <sigh> In fact, had I known that's how the page had been created, I would have flagged it as a copyright risk. As it is, I think it's still a serious concern, so I'm bringing it to the attention of the other Admins, so they can weigh in on its fate.

Doctor Bombay, calling Doctor Bombay... @Labster, @GethN7, @Robkelk, @QuestionableSanity, @DocColress, @LulzKiller, @SelfCloak

Is this page exists pre-port, I don't see the issue. If it's post-port; rewrite or get permission.

It's post-port. The TVT page was created in YKTTW more than a month after the fork, and second, Jade's original text was a clumsy rewrite of the page as it existed on TVT at the time the workshop candidate was created.

As a result of this question, I've just discovered that many if not all of Jade's recent Trope Workshop candidates have been pages created on TVT since the fork. A good example -- Jade just created a new Workshop candidate last night, Forgettable Character. It is a thinly (and poorly) rewritten copy of TVT's page of the same name. I am inclined to think that if it's not a complete rewrite from the ground up, it infringes.

Two caveats: first, I'm only familiar with Canadian copyright law and am not an expert in it; second, free legal advice is worth what one pays for it.

It looks to me that we're venturing into the area of "derivative works" here, in much the same way that a translation of a work into another language is a derivative work. I think there's nothing wrong per se with derivative works (I write fanfic), but copyright law disagrees with me.

It's been a while since I've gone and looked at what license if any TVTropes content is available under. Might we possibly be allowed to create a derivative work from one or more of their pages?

EDIT: "TVTropes is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License." It doesn't have the ND clause... but it does have NC and SA. Considering the often-acrimonious relationship between TVT and ATT, I'd suggest erring on the side of caution and deleting - even a re-write could be seen as a derivative now. If we want the tropes, come up with new names for them and write the pages from scratch.

I'm with Rob, caution is a sane policy.

My gut's been telling me the same thing all morning. Assuming the other admins don't disagree, we'll need to go through all the recent launches, find the ones that Jade created, and see if they have too-similar counterparts on TVT.

We should also check Jade's recent works pages, like Black Panther (film) -- I just noticed a couple minutes ago that it has redlinks in its trope list, and no work page that is original to us should have redlinked trope names.

I see that we already have a clearly-worded rule about this on the page All The Tropes:Copyrights : "Can I just copy over stuff from TV Tropes?"

"In general, no you may not copy content from TV Tropes, since this might violate the CC-BY-NC-SA license. But there are exceptions -- see below."

...

"You can, however, use TV Tropes a reference to your own writing. Avoid paraphrasing; we want to come up with new content. The names of the tropes used in a work (or a list of works that make use of a trope) are raw data, and thus not subject to copyright. They are facts, and can be used on our wiki. However, any description of how a work qualifies for a trope (or vice-versa) is copyrightable; do not copy the context for examples from TV Tropes."

The "Avoid paraphrasing" text is clear to me.

Once again, you go to the source and find that we have a relevant policy already in place. One of these days I'm going to remember to do my own due diligence, but until then...

Seriously, yes, this means we need to go find all of Jade's trope pages and recreate their main text from scratch. Jade, please put a moratorium on your future "transplants" until we finish this task?

Meanwhile, while the basic list of tropes applying to a work is not copyrightable, on general principles we should not include entries for which we do not have our own trope pages. That means (for now), deleting things like "Adaptation Personality Change", "Bystander Syndrome" and "Really Royalty Reveal" on the Black Panther page.

Okay and thanks. Guess I should focus on something else, like fixing the work pages (i.e. Black Panther, Peter Rabbit, and the others that I'm slowly working on). And wait for the transplants.

Just now noticed the ping, but it turns out you all found the policy I wrote anyway. The "avoid paraphrasing" bit is as much about good writing style as it is about copyright. Write fresh, and you can often do better than the original thing you're reading -- at least compared to tropers. Facts are not subject to copyright, but phrasing is.

Find a better "Ain'T There Anyone Here for Love" music clip/music video for movie.

Ask the guys if the Katy Smith thing belongs in the "Real Life" category, instead of "Other Media."

Trope Re-Names (If current title doesn't work):

Yes, Workout That Bod

Bodily Workout

Fanservice Exercise