Talk:Grail Quest

Yes, I know it's my own candidate. But it's been in the workshop for several weeks, has been edited by people other than me, has a more than adequate description, more than the ten examples we require of mod-created candidates, and sufficient categories. Asking for votes.

CC: @Agiletek @GentlemensDame883 @Goo Monster @HeneryVII @HornyLikeIAmA14YearOldGirl @Lequinni‎ @RivetVermin @Umbire the Phantom @Utini501 @Jlaw @Labster @Looney Toons @GethN7 @Robkelk @QuestionableSanity @Derivative @SelfCloak

Launch. Honestly, I'm kind of shocked we didn't have it before, seems like quite an old element on fiction.

Vote to launch... and, should anybody has any concerns that the vote was called by the trope proposer, I volunteer to do the launch work in his place.

Oh, good. I've launched or am launching three tropes today, and all the entry pimping is a serious pain. <grin> Thank you.

You're a workaholic, LT.

Seems okay for me. I vote to launch.

No, really, I'm not. I just have an ulterior motive for clearing out the Workshop. <grin>

Vote to launch!

Looks good to launch.

Launched and entry-pimped.

@Jlaw: While, yes, they are about searches for the literal Grail, the trope is not about simply looking for (and maybe finding) it -- but rather the pattern of tests and challenges a quester has to pass through to be worthy of it. It's possible the Indiana Jones example would apply, yes (with a stinger in the tail, with the twist about not looking at all). But the Spamalot example has nothing about the quest challenging and refining the knights.

And now that I think more on it, though, the Gaiman story (which you labeled a subversion) is more a straight example -- told from the point of view of one of the challenges. Galahad has to find the right solution to the problem she poses, one that will not threaten the state of Grace he must maintain to be worthy of winning the Grail.

Do you understand what I'm talking about?

I think I do. Putting my reasoning below.

Can expand about Spamalot. It does follow some of the patterns of the film, with the twist being that they actually find the Grail. Act Two has Arthur and the Knights find a shrubbery and host a musical on Broadway for the Knights Who Say Ni, destroy the Killer Rabbit with a Holy Hand Grenade, and search the audience for the grail. They then award the audience member whose seat has the Grail under it with the title "Most Useful Peasant."

That's a good point about chivalry. Galahad goes on quests off-screen to find items by which to barter with Mrs. Whitaker. He first politely asks to take it before offering money, then secures a sword, and finally brings the items that she will accept. Would that count, considering Mrs. Whittaker in a twist would be a Grail guardian?

It sounds like Spamalot is a better choice than I thought, then. You need to add those challenges to the example, and perhaps note just how serious or silly they are (and if they count as straight implementation of the trope despite the comedic context, or as a deconstructive parody).

As for the Gaiman story, without actually reading it myself, I couldn't say exactly. From the summary you wrote, it seems to me that Mrs. Whitaker is, in and of herself, the challenge to overcome -- the various things Galahad tries are not precisely challenges in themselves but rather part of the greater challenge. As for a "Grail Guardian", well, traditionally the Grail is its own guardian -- it goes where it wills and does what it wants, regardless of the mortals around it. The closest thing it has to a "guardian" in the original stories is the Fisher King, and he basically just offers another challenge in the Quest (a challenge of wisdom, prompting the knight to ask the question that will ultimately lead to enlightenment and the Grail).

But don't get me started. My wife and I wrote a book on the Arthurian mythos for Steve Jackson Games coming on thirty years ago and we're still both very well versed in it. I could go on for hours...

I'll edit the Spamalot example then and add what I posted here. Really miss the days when Tim Curry would prance around while his squire would bang coconuts together.

Totally recommend Chivalry, and Levar Burton read it aloud: https://www.stitcher.com/show/levar-burton-reads/episode/chivalry-by-neil-gaiman-200144422 . Happy to keep workshopping the example until it either fits or is a subversion.

Ooh, where can I find the book? Do you have a link??

The title is GURPS Camelot: Roleplaying in the Court of King Arthur, and it's long out of print; you can buy a used copy through Amazon or probably any other online used book dealer. Or you can go to Steve Jackson Games' online store and buy a PDF. I'd rather you did the latter -- I get a royalty still on electronic sales! (Plus, it's cheaper than trying to find a physical copy.) I also have a page of outtakes on my website.

Thanks so much! I have the PDF page open and will buy a copy once I get paid for this month.

Whoops; doube post.

You're welcome!

Hello, I didn't want to edit anything since this is your sandbox. I just wanted to note how Fate/Stay Night example in Video Games should be put under Visual Novel. There is also how I wanted to point out another example from the Fate series called Fate/Grand Order, where the main character and his Servant are tasked to go through different points in time to correct changes to history caused by several Holy Grails being the source of these temporal disturbances.

Thanks for the advice. I only know the works from their anime adaptations, myself.

Your welcome. I also wanted to note that Fate/GO is a mobile game RPG with Gacha rather than a visual novel that the original Fate.