Talk:The Oathbreaker

As I type this, the page's image is a guy in armour and a cloak, holding a sword, walking away from another guy who's on the ground. That doesn't say "oathbreaker" to me, that says "killer".

The caption says that this Lanister guy (whoever he is) is a king-slayer. Again, that's "killer", not "oatrhbreaker".

We have Just a Face and a Caption here. And not a particularly informative caption, to boot; you have to follow a link to find out how any of this relates to the trope.

I don't have a better image to propose, though. Does anyone else?

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Disreagrd, posted in wrong place

The problem is that oathbreaking is such an abstract concept it's hard to find a good visual representation of it. You invariably need a context for an action that can be called "oathbreaking", which is what causes the problem with the current image.

What we need to do is either find a pic (like a panel or panels from a web comic) that provides its own context, or is sufficiently self-contained in some other manner to encapsulate such an abstract concept.

It's been a while since I last saw ASOIAF/GOT, but are there any flashbacks of Jaime swearing fealty to Aerys? If so, a possibility of fixing what's currently here is to do a before-and-after with the first panel showing the swearing of fealty and the second showing the assassination or aftermath thereof.

As Looney Toons said, this Trope is hard to define and might be antiquated. Is the trope really all that different from Turncoat? Sure, Lancaster was a traitor, but that hardly seems unusual given the setting. Seems like there are a lot of tropes that cover this.

An Oathbreaker is above and beyond a Turncoat, basically by virtue of the oath sworn, because it's expected to be binding. Depending on the work, broken oaths can have many different consequences. In most cases oaths are sworn publicly -- like an oath of fealty -- and someone breaking his oath will take a reputation hit: "You cannot trust Lord X -- he gave his solemn oath to the king, and then betrayed him." In some settings, like Mercedes Lackey's Velgarth, an oath can some level of supernatural force behind it -- ready to punish if not enforce the oath. She has a whole book, Oathbreakers, about the efforts two of her heroes go to to bring an oathbreaker to a point where they can invoke a supernatural punishment on him. In the real world, we still use oaths which are expected to have some supernatural force behind them -- anything where you swear on a Bible, for instance. (Not to mention mundane penalties like charges of perjury if you're caught lying in court, for instance.)

In comparison, a turncoat is just a guy who switches sides out of convenience or cowardice. An Oathbreaker is someone who will show he has no honor by ignoring the solemn promises he's made.

I can think of several oathbreakers like thoses ghosts of TLOR or Kratos from God of War or Sinestro who broke his oath as Green Lantern. But a image of them doing the oath is different. Most of the time the oath is made verbally, with sounds, not images. "I will etcteraetctera".

I know it wouldn't be perfect, but would an image of a person with their fingers crossed behind their back be an improvement? It at least gets across the idea of untrustworthyness, and reneging on a deal. Maybe add a caption which gives some additional context?

RivetVermin's got the right idea with the caption: while it's good for an image to be self-explanatory, sometimes it's hard to convey a concept as abstract as this through pictures alone.

Jaime also has the reputation of being an oathbreaker and a kingslayer. So he broke his vow to the king by killing him.

It may be we need an original image. I could draw some concept art depending on the subject. Maybe someone tearing up a contract?

Jaime also has the reputation of being an oathbreaker and a kingslayer. So he broke his vow to the king by killing him.

The caption doesn't say that.

By the way, who is this guy, anyway? I don't play a lot of video games, so I've never encountered this character. (Assuming he's from a game, of course.) Not that it matters -- a page image is supposed to stand on its own -- but now I'm curious.

He's from A Song of Ice and Fire and Game of Thrones. Jaime is a knight and from the Lannister family, but he was knighted so that he couldn't be made heir and used as a bargaining chip to keep his family from rebelling. It didn't work; when the crown prince ran off with another woman while married, a rebellion ensued. His father ordered Jaime to blow up the city, and Jaime killed him instead. Despite the fact that Jaime did the right thing, everyone viewed him as an oathbreaker and a kingslayer; there are rumors that he was helping the Lannisters since his father stormed the kingdom during the rebellion. As a result, he plays the part of the wild car knight and the bad guy until he becomes one for real.

For the record, I think Jaime is a tool and one of the worst characters. But he does fit the criteria for oathbreaker.

Ah. Thanks.

In that case, I think that @GentlemensDame883 has the right idea - if there's a picture of him swearing his oath, use both that and the picture we have now in a before-and-after set, and clean up the description text to say who he is.

I think like what Looney Toons said the concept is abstract so its harder to show. I think the picture gives a good job of detailing how a knight kills his king. It does take some thinking but a knight is sworn loyalty to their king and that would count as a broken oath. Though, a before and after picture might do a different approach to show don't tell.