Tales of Symphonia/Headscratchers

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.


Please put any Headscratchers for the sequel on the Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World Headscratchers page.

What's with all the Fantastic Racism against half-elves?

Why are elves okay, and humans okay, but elves mixed with humans are bad? Especially on the part of the elves. It makes as much sense as black people discriminating against multiracial kids. And furthermore, how does Raine's mother get off the hook? She was with a human long enough to have not one, but two kids. If we accept the logic that half-elves equal bad, then multiracial couples should be just as bad.

  • I suspect it has something to do with how isolationist the elves are- they never leave their one town, remember, the only interactions come from the few humans that visit them, and the few elves that might occasionally leave. This, along with what we see of elves, indicates some sort of fundamental difference- likely psychological, but also probably having to do with lifespans, half-elves living much longer than humans but much shorter than elves, between elves and men that makes it impossible to co-exist for lengthy periods of time, which works fine when there's a whole other society to banish to. When the kid is half-elf, and thus too differerent from both sides to live with either, it causes tension. No matter the origin of the hatred, though, remember that it became self-propagating once Mithos fell from grace and began Cruxis and the Desians.
  • You seemed to be referencing black Americans in your example, but that's not a good equivalency at all, for so many reasons that I'm not touching it. Let's put it this way: if a person of random race X has children with a person of random race Y, they hopefully love their kids, and probably wouldn't discriminate against other children who are half X/half Y, however there is no guarantee of that, nor is there any guarantee about how other members of race X or Y would receive said children. Additionally, the race relations between humans and elves aren't elaborated on at length, but judging by the way humans are treated in the elven village, elves are racist toward humans, and it's quite possible (and even probable) that the racism is reciprocated by humans. The thing is, elves apparently self-segregate, so it's not as much of an issue. Just because elves aren't immediately executed without proper trial the way half-elves are doesn't mean humans and elves get along at all. Nobody said racism was smart or rational. Also, Raine's mom didn't get off the hook. She was ostracized from the elven village along with her kids and lived in Exire in a flying ghetto composed mostly of half-elves (and presumably parents of half-elves).

Why did nobody question Kratos' behavior

  • Lloyd aside, why does no one question the way Kratos acts regarding Anna during the Asgard human ranch segment (the "Mustn't speak ill of the dead" line in particular)?
    • Lloyd questioned it? He's more genre savvy than I remember. That's probably the answer, incidentally. Like one FAQ writer said, "Say, you sound pretty enraged for a person with no relations with Lloyd."
      • Actually, Raine questions Kratos' presence during a skit that can be triggered in the first part of the game. She asks him why he's traveling with the group, and he simply responds that he's a mercenary and consequently in it for the money. She seems doubtful of his explanation. Makes sense, since she's the most cynical and least trusting member of the group to that point, Kratos himself excepted.
      • I meant Lloyd had his questionable intelligence as an excuse for not doing so.
    • The "Kratos... angry?" skit makes note of how Kratos is acting, at least. When the character note that he's pissed and try to find out why, he loses his cool and yells at them, leaving everyone shocked. That's probably why they didn't pursue it more.

Whats up with the summons?

  • What the blazes happened to Celsius? She's there for Symphonia and its sequel, but there's no explanation as to her whereabouts in Tales of Phantasia. She's not so much as mentioned.
    • In the time between Symphonia and Phantasia the art of Summoning has been almost entirely lost. Klarth is the only person actively pursuing it, and if you believe him, almost no one in the magical research community believes it's even possible. Spirits are known to exist, but at the same time, some important spirits (notably Origin) are thought to be completely mythical. Even the folks in Alvanista's magical research lab and Midgard's Magitech facility don't seem to know that much. It doesn't seem implausible that after 4000 years her existence would be forgotten, and the characters never ran across any old books/ruins/random magical researchers who knew about her, so they just never had a reason to go looking for her.
  • We know that Symphonia is a prequel to Phantasia, and as such, the summons are the same guys. So, what happened to them over the 4000 some-odd years between the two games? Sylph loses a part of herself (literally), Shadow practically dissolves, Undine goes from demure female mage to 8-year-old with a BFS, and most confusingly, Gnome goes from a large mole with a propeller to a large collection of missiles. What happened to them?
    • Considering the state you find him in in Symphonia, poor Shadow might just be really bad at holding his form together, hence the 'dissolving'.
    • Gnome in Phantasia is in a very Japanese stylized form of a mole. See Diglett for a comparison. This doesn't explain the change, but yea...
    • I've heard that Gnome is like that in Phantasia because of a comment he made in Symphonia about how 'four against one' wasn't fair. Might be stretching it a bit, but you never know.
  • Sheena informs us that a Summon Spirit's physical appearance is not immutable. They can appear however they want to appear. You'd probably get bored too after 4000 years.
    • that does not explain how some apparently gain and/or lose bodies.
      • It does, in fact, if you take "can appear however they want to appear" to its logical extreme. You're mistaking "weird" with "impossible".
      • 'Bored after 4000 years'?I wonder how Kratos and Yuan feel...
        • They've had jobs to keep them occupied most of that time, at first serving, then undermining Cruxis. The summons, on the other hand, were just sorta sitting around being symbolic after Lloyd and co effectively fired them from the whole "seal-keeping and Regeneration-fueling" gig they had going for the last 4,000.
      • Gnome's transformation shouldn't really be surprising. He's nuts.
  • Also, whats up with Aska and Luna? Co-Light spirits in Symphonia, with Aska doing nothing, by Phantasia they have their own jobs, Luna has gone from a demure woman to a bubbly teen in personality, and Aska is doing his job.
    • Influenced by another Summoner? Sheena was the first one they'd had since Mithos, but it could well be that at some point between those two games, there've been other Summoners who used their power. And maybe Luna is bummed now, and gets over it in a few millennia.
  • Obviously, Celcius turned into Gremlin. She's weird like that. And Ratatosk became Chameleon!
    • That makes sense, except Ratatosk became Pluto and Verius (tired of never doing anything) became Chameleon.

Presea/Lloyd oddness

  • Is it me, or is it weird that the dialogue you get when you have the highest relationship score with Presea is the most romantic of the choices? Colette and Lloyd have a sweet sort of non-chemistry, Lloyd and Sheena are all stupid and bumbling when it comes to love, Raine seems a bit exasperated by the fact that she's falling for this callow youth, but Presea and Lloyd are clearly doing some kind of epic love affair. "I will never have my lost time back." "Then we'll make up for it. Together."
    • The game most likely had that dialogue prepared well ahead of time... for Regal to say. Even if Presea is a perfectly good woobie, she definitely has the least reason to turn to Lloyd for support or romance.
      • That actually seems pretty likely, they had the dialogue ready for Regal only to realise it might come across as a tad bit pedolicious.
        • Given Presea's real age and mental maturity well beyond her appearance, it's not all that unreasonable that she might actually have feelings for Lloyd. There's not really much of an explanation for Lloyd's half of it, though.

What's up with the Chosen?

  • Just a little something... The chosen is for Martel, right? Then, why they choose Zelos, a boy? I mean, yeah, the sister is just half-sister, but the Pope says that she would be fine, if Zelos dies, so there's no real problem in switch the Chosen One, no? So, the first question is why they didn't switch with Seles, seeing that for the Pope the change didn't matter. The second is... but if, instead of Colette, there was Zelos... Mithos would give Martel's soul to Zelos? I mean, all right, what matters is that she's alive again... and, obviously, if I did be dead for 4000 years then one day magically alive again thanks to my little brother that choose to sacrifice thousand and thousand of people for me, not counting all the pain on the world and all the idealism thrown away, the last thing I would be shocked for would be why I'm in a male body instead of a female, but what the hell.
    • Actually, you're missing several points. The Chosen has several purposes; they're responsible for switching the mana flow, "sealing" the Desians and continuing the lineage. None of that depends on gender. Only the higher-ups of Cruxis know about using the Chosen as a physical vessel for the soul of a dead chick, and that's only if the Chosen is compatible, which, as the game shows, took 4000 years for Cruxis to manage through selective breeding (since they've been doing this for so long, I doubt they care if that generation produces a boy instead of a girl—they'd just try again). The world in general thinks that Chosen ascend as angels, so the Pope would have no reason to prefer a female Chosen. Since Tethe'alla was not in decline, the only things the Chosen would have to do would be act as a church figurehead and continue the lineage—already he wouldn't be a candidate.
    • First I assume Zelos was less important, as the Chosen of the prosperous world. Then I imagine they'd rather not use Seles anyway, given that she was the daughter of a half-elf; it'd have made all the discrimination and racism against half-elves lose a lot of credibility if people learned the Chosen had one for a mother.
    • It's implied that they're trying to get a "magical signature" (read: genetic code) as close to Martel as possible. Presumably Zelos was just that much closer to being Martel, so that his (ideally female) descendant would be... well, Colette, basically, since she proved compatible where no one else did. And if they had to use Zelos, well, it was a small sacrifice to make to have Martel back.
    • They also mentioned that Seles was sickly as a child. If she were to die as the Chosen, they would be left with Zelos as their only candidate for a Chosen, which would mean doubling back on their own decision, something Churches don't like to do; but if they don't make her Chosen, Zelos can fulfill his duties as a figure head for as long as they want him to AND they get to keep Seles around as both leverage and a Plan B.
    • It really wouldn't matter at all for Martel if she woke up in a man's body, because as Mithos explains (and demonstrates) in the game, "When you become a lifeless being, you can even control your appearance and growth."
  • I always just assumed that Zelos was only there to keep the cycle going until Martel's new body was found (in case Colette wasn't a suitable match). After that he'd probably become another one of Yggdrasil's mindless angels or he'd just be stuffed in a coffin and left in the Tower of Salvation.
  • The title of "Chosen of Regeneration" has a different meaning depending on whether the world is in decline or not. When it is, the Chosen is the person who fixes that. When it's not, the Chosen is meant to keep the linage going and pass the title down to their child. Zelos (and every other male Chosen, such as Zelos' father) pretty much exists for the 2nd purpose. And, before it's asked, Zelos says his father was the previous Chosen in his "Night in Flanoir" scene.
  • Think about it: if you were dead, and had been dead for thousands of years, would you honestly give a shit that you had been resurrected with something else between your legs? a Chosen girl or a Chosen boy doesn't make any difference whatsoever.

What's up with the coffins?

  • In the intro, Remiel proclaims that Colette will be the seventh Chosen. But when you get to the Tower of Salvation... there are a lot more than seven coffins...
    • Simple, he lied. He does that.
    • Maybe only 7 chosen were public, in times when the planet had been without Mana for a long time.
    • Or, perhaps the Chosen from Tethe'alla are a lot more pathetic than the ones from Sylvarant, and fail more often than the Sylvarant ones. The people of Sylvarant don't know about Tethe'alla so they'd only know the seven ones they have.
      • If the coffins belonged to the Tethe'allan Chosen, then I think it'd be the other way around: If you finish the journey and aren't a match for Martel, you get stuffed in a coffin. If you don't finish the journey, you were most likely killed along the way. I seriously doubt that Cruxis would care enough about the Chosen who failed to go retrieve their bodies. In this case, Remiel could be referring to how many Chosen from Sylvarant died before finishing the journey since the last time Sylvarant began to decline.
    • Also, the coffins may very well include each past chosen's travelling party.
    • No one alive in Sylvarant seems to realize that it used to have lots of magitechnology around a time when Tethe'alla was rustic, as would logically have happened before a mana flow reversal. Maybe Colette's the seventh attempt at a Chosen from this cycle, and the others came from previous reversals.
    • Or maybe the "coffins" don't actually have anything to do with the chosen. They could just be decoration.
    • I would guess that Remiel meant that if she succeeded, she would've been the 7th SUCCESSFUL Chosen. After all, the Journey of Regeneration isn't just for finding a vessel for Martel, but also for reversing the flow of mana from one planet to another, so that neither world ever becomes prosperous and/or advanced enough to pull a repeat the Ancient Karlan War. The 6 Chosen that Remiel mentioned must be the ones from Sylvarant that succeeded in the Journey of Regeneration.
    • Another possibility is the seventh person to receive the Chosen Title since the last time the world that prospered changed.
  • Oh, and another thing. Raine seems to have an idea of what they could mean, is that ever elaborated on?
  • The "seventh person to become the Chosen" title seems most likely, since the last vessel for Martel arrived 800 years ago, and according to Yggdrasill at one point, Tethe'alla has been prospering for too long. Marble mentions that the last Chosen was killed by Desians, which could indicate it happened in her lifetime, and it would be unlikely that only seven Chosen candidates were born in Sylvarant in the last 800 years. Then again, one would think that Sylvarant would remember that it used to be prosperous for some time.
    • They do remember that they had periods of prosperity. There are references to previous chosens successfully completing their journeys, and a discussion at the beginning of the game about the Desians supposedly breaking the seal that was put on them at the end of the Kharlan War. They just don't know why these periods of prosperity keep ending because they don't know about Tethe'Alla and the nature of the worlds' connection.

How does the sorcerers ring fuction for both parties in the Tower of Mana/Asgard Ranch?

  • Ok, so IIRC it doesn't need to be used in the Asgard Ranch, but it is needed in the tower by both parties to burn the drapes.
    • The Sorcerer's Ring is one doozie of an artifact. My guess is that the party has a way (probably discovered by Raine) of transferring the ring to one group to another with magic.
      • There's probably just more than one. Why else are there element-switchers about? Yes, it's a holy artifact- doesn't mean that there isn't more than one sorcerer's ring.
        • There is more than one. Toize Valley Mine's equipment is expected to be used via a Sorcerer's Ring.
        • And they come free with being a Knight of Ratatosk (as a sidenote, really), so its possible that Summon Spirits can mass-produce them. Hell, maybe humans (or elves) mass produced them in the distant past.
      • Although the fact that your party never (noticeably) obtains more than one is a bit odd.
      • Actually, my theory is that when you obtain the Sorcerer's Ring, since you are playing the game from Lloyd's point of view, its singular since he only gets 1. There may well have been nine or more, and they took them all or at least nine. Then over the course of the story, each party member gets one. Kratos probably ended up keeping his, and Zelos's got returned when he died (if he dies)
      • Or, you know, the burning with the Sorcerer's Ring was just a gimmick. They are just curtains, after-all. They could have one of the magic-worthy members burn them with their own fireballs, or simply tear them down. And as for the Toize Valley Mine, there were probably workers that manually hit those switches once upon a time. It could have just been luck that the Sorcerer's Ring reached far enough. (Otherwise, maybe one of the party members would have to scale up that thing to hit the switch. Or throw rocks at it.)
    • They put it through the Bag of Sharing just like the rest of their inventory.

Mana Cannons

  • Why do people keep rediscovering and using the damn things? Track record:
    • First use in Great War. Killing of Great Karlahn Tree, enslaving of world to tyrannical dictator for 4,000 years and causing 1/2 of the world to be suffering at all times.
    • Second use during Tales of Symphonia. Creates a giant tree which kills tens of thousands worldwide and untold property damage globally, then stops it. No net benefit, net detriment vast. Inspires the Sylvaranti Liberation Front to do horrible, horrible things to get one of their own in Dawn of a New World.
    • Third use between Symphonia and Phantasia during Fenrir-Odin war. Utter destruction of much of the civilized world, leaving the rest helpless before a giant comet, thrusting mankind back to the dark ages.
    • Fourth use during Phantasia. Comes damn close to killing the new Tree, destroys a city killing thousands.
      • The cannon was never fired at a city in Tales of Phantasia. It was fired at Daos' airborn army and took out half of it in a single shot, only for it to mailfunction due to a severly drastic drop in mana levels.
  • To summarize, every time it is used it makes the world a worse place to live in for everyone. Thousands die, resources are consumed way too fast, and the user is hurt as much or more than the target. So why do people keep digging out the designs from old records and building the damn things?!? Why aren't said records and references in archives all labeled "warning, do not build, it doesn't end well"? The suffering caused spans an 8000 year period, shouldn't it be a fundamental part of their culture by this point that Magical Cannons = problem?
    • For that matter, why don't the spirits say/do something about it? They're supposed to be protecting the world in some vague way and moreover they're the ones that suffer when there's not enough mana around. Is Ratatosk the only spirit that isn't completely apathetic about the mortals screwing everything up by killing the World Trees? Iffor example, Origin was to show up with all the weapons and lightning and whatnot and say "Dude! Quit building this cannon, it's a bad plan!" I'd be inclined to take him seriously.
    • The thought process is probably "The guy with he biggest gun wins, right? And anyway I'm smart enough not to make the same mistakes that these people made! What could possibly go wrong?"
    • You have Symphonia's Mana Cannon entry COMPLETELY wrong- The Cannon fired in Symphonia SAVED countless people. The Tree was caused by forming all of the pacts, and the Mana Reactors of the operational Human Ranches giving the Great Seed Mana- causing it to give rise to the Berserk Tree- which was going to destroy the entire world. The Cannon fired at the Tree- destroying it, thereby saving many people- true, lives were lost in the tree event, but many more would've been if it wasn't for that gun. The Vanguard wanted it- because it made "World Destroying Tree" go BOOM.
      • Fair point there, but remember that the goal was to stabilize the tree, making everything hunky-dory again and ending the journey right there- not turning it into a seed again. So in that respect even at its most successful point it ultimately failed miserably, suceeding only at returning the previous troubled status quo (and inspiring a literal Reign of Terror in the vein of the classic French one 2 years later).
  • This one's easy enough. Humans Are Morons. Humans Are the Real Monsters. Humans are drawn to big power destructive things like moths to flames. Give them a problem that superficially looks like it could be solved with the application of overwhelming force, and add to that legends/records/memories of Big Freaking Guns. It's a Foregone Conclusion.

The Wonder Chef

  • Seriously, the smeg? What is he? How is he capable of traversing the world and between worlds? Is he some sort of cooking ninja exile who stowed away on their rheirds? Is he a summon spirit? Why does he hide as inanimate objects? NOTHING about him makes any sense.
  • Similarly, what is "the wonderful world of flavors"?
  • And why did his recipes suddenly become limited to Mons? Especially considering how many cooking skits still exist?
    • The developers hit upon the Fridge Logic inherent in stopping between a boss's forms to cook and eat some fish stew to heal up. In comparison, cooking for your monsters to improve happiness makes total sense.
  • I have a few different theories. 1)He knows how to travel between dimensions and most likely, between locations at great speed. 2)He isn't one person, but many people. 3)He is some sort of mystic being that is summoned by those special Wonder Chef objects.

What industry is the Lezareno Company in, exactly?

  • The products it is known to produce are... eclectic. Handcuffs, cologne, healing gels, trick iron maidens, specialty clothing that's magically enhanced to offer protections beyond its scanty appearance...
    • I figured it was a logical extension of what Microsoft's gonna be in about 20 years. HEYO~~- okay, sorry, that wasn't necessary. In all seriousness, they're one of those "We Sell Everything" companies. If there's a real-life parallel, I can't think of it...
      • In Japan, Mitsubishi doesn't just sell cars. They sell a wide variety of products, seeing as they are one of the zaibatsu. The Lezareno Company is a company that is like a zaibatsu, not like a western company.
        • To give another example, Yamaha, another Japanese company, makes things ranging from motorcycles to...flutes. My guess is the Lezareno is there to see just how far they could take the zaibatsu idea, possibly poking a little fun at the idea.

What is up with Dwarves?

  • I mean, is it just me, or are Dirk and Altessa the only two dwarves in the entire universe? Where do the dwarven vows come from if there's no dwarf society?
    • Its mentioned that most dwarves were working for Yggdrasil, so they're probably in the factories of Derris-Karlahn. Alternatively, they're in massive underground cities, and Dirk and Altessa are the only two surface-dwelling dwarves.
      • So how did Dirk and Altessa end up living where they do if all the other reindeer dwarves have been working for Yggdrasil for the last 4000 years? And wouldn't having masses of dwarves running around be problematic for Yggdrasil, given his stated goal of making everyone the same? Alternately, if dwarves have huge underground cities, why do we never see or hear any sign of them, and why don't Dirk and Altessa live in these cities? Since dwarves are renowned as fine craftsmen, you'd think people would by trying to trade... especially in Tethe'alla, where the humans are technologically advanced and actually have good stuff with which to barter.
        • I can only answer one part of that- why Dirk and Altessa were where they were. For Dirk, he was on the surface near the Ranch (most likely making a delivery of some sort), found baby Lloyd, and stayed in the human lands to raise him. As for Altessa, he made Tabitha, and Yggdrasil wanted her as far away as possible from anywhere he might personally be, as she reminded him that he still didn't have Martel back.
    • Dwarves, those who don't work for Cruxis (as Altessa did), generally live underground. You can see evidence of these dwellings in Tales of Phantasia and Dawn of the New World. Dirk decided to live aboveground for Lloyd's sake.
    • If you talk to Dirk a some point he says that he misses living underground.

How Does Regal Change Clothes?

  • The guy walks around in shackles 27/7 in the first game, yet there are 3 alternate outfits for him (or 4, depending on which version you're playing). How does he change his clothes when those shackles should stop anything on his upper body coming off?
    • With assistance. If you'll notice, he has buttons down the back of his shirt, someone just slips the thing on and buttons it for him. Possibly Presea, possibly whoever the smeg you ship him with.
      • That doesn't quite change the fact that he's still shackled
        • look, it all makes sense except the sleeves. Just mentally put him in a tank top and it all comes out smooth.
          • Aha, solution to how he changes his normal clothing (but nor the formal outfit however). He has laces on his sleeves [dead link]
            • I... I just realized that Regal is wearing a top...
      • Yeah, it's the sleeves. If he can cook with those shackles, then he can probably lace those easily enough. Also (not that I've been looking), his trousers are really low, making them easy to remove as well.

Why does Yuan try to kill Lloyd in the Tethe'alla Base?

  • Wouldn't that mess up his plan to use Lloyd to force Kratos to release Origin's seal? If he had killed Lloyd, what would he have said? "Hey, I just killed your son, you have nothing to live for anymore, do what I say"?
    • Battles against named boss characters rarely cause the death of that boss upon defeat, so one can assume it goes both ways. Yuan was simply trying to incapacitate Lloyd for capture.

Mithos and Colette look like Half-Identical Twins

  • Was their resemblance part of a plot point that was cut from the final game?
    • Definitely a plot point. She was designed to have an identical mana signiture to Martel, Mithos' sister, and so she physically resembles Martel as well. The entire purpose of the Chosen system was to produce someone who was identical to Mithos' sister.
      • Then what about Zelos? This Troper is quite sure he isn't identical to Martel.
      • He's not, but his descendants might have been. The Chosen line is carefully manipulated by the Church of Martel to eventually have someone who is close enough to Martel that she can inhabit the body. This may also explain why Zelos is so pretty: he's been bred for that. The entirety of the Chosen line is basically a complex eugenics program.
        • This Troper would like to mention that the picture of Zelos' mother in his house appears to be blonde. It's possible that he and Seles merely got their father's bright red hair and other possible features. Of course, this is pure conjecture.
        • They might also dye their hair. If you imagine Zelos with blonde hair, he looks a lot like Yggdrasil, and Seles looks a lot like Colette. Or, hair color and other physical traits have nothing to do with the mana signature.

What stopped Kratos from killing Kvar after what he did to Anna?

  • He was presumably right there when Anna died. Kratos seemed to be in a position of relative authority afterwards despite everyone in Cruxis knowing of his relationship with Anna. What stopped him from shish-kebabbing Kvar for that until the events of the game?
    • Mithos Did.
    • He sure didn't seem to mind Kratos killing Kvar (and Magnius) later and destroying half the Desians' human ranches before Colette gave up her soul.
      • Kvar and Magnius are both Traitors, and presumably Mithos would want traitors killed, and Kratos is likely under the same circumstances as Yuan. (Magnius was trying to kill Colette and Kvar was helping Rodyle in his coup. He (Kratos) also couldn't intervene with the destruction of the ranches lest he blow his cover, and instantly jeopardize the entire plan. Mithos isn't stupid- insane, yes, but stupid, no.
      • Remember, the Desians are just pawns to Mithos. They really only have two purposes: 1) create exspheres, and 2) cause suffering for the Chosen, thus fostering the growth of his/her Cruxis Crystal. I doubt he really cares if a few ranches get blown up.
      • I doubt Mithos is all too attached to a bunch of sociopaths whose sole purpose is to wreaking havoc on the declining world. If Kratos would've skewered Kvar right there and then Mithos would've probably just replaced him with another flunkie.
      • Also, Kratos is one of Mithos' oldest friends and one of the Seraphim (the top 4 guys in Cruxis, Mithos being #1, Kratos either being #2 or #3, depending on how much Mithos likes Yuan, and Pronyma being #4 since she's the leader of the Desians). The only Grand Cardinal who seemed to have any real importance was Forcystus (he was a Desian hero), all the others are (for all we know) just a bunch of psychopaths. I doubt Mithos would really care if he killed a Desian. He'd probably assume Kratos had a good reason to kill him.
        • Pronyma isn't one of the Four Seraphim, as proved by the fact that Yggdrasil exclaimed that nobody but his old comrades may refer to him as Mithos, right before killing her. Although, seeing as she's the leader of the Grand Cardinals, and therefore the de facto leader of the Desians, it really proves how little Mithos cares about them when he killed her. Also, for the record, the fourth Seraph is presumed to be Martel herself.
        • It was said somewhere Martel is the fourth.Also funny thing is number 4 means death in asian culture,so it fits her as the 'absent' one here
    • ...Or maybe he was too busy running down the cliff trying to see if his son was okay? Because he HAD just fallen off it, you know. Priorities, people.

That crown?

  • Who did Raine get that ancient crown (the one that's traded to Koton) from? A former student, lover, etc., or what?
    • Former lover. It's also heavily implied that they did that by the Unicorn Scene. Other than that, nothing else is known.
      • ...Is there any specific cutscenes of this, aside from the Unicorn and Selling it ones? 'Cause, uh, I can just imagine Genis' reaction.

Derris Kharlan

  • Dhaos came from Derris Kharlan, and was trying to stop, a parasitic relationship similar to that of Sylvarant and Tethe'alla. Wasn't Kratos' job stopping that from happening, though? Did he fuck it up?
    • Maybe Kratos fucked up and Karlan ran out of mana. Maybe Kratos decided he was old enough, and let a successor take over, and the successor fucked up. Maybe there were unforeseen problems that Kratos couldn't have known about which got worse until a new Seed was needed. Given how little we know, the possibilities are endless.
      • He probably forgot about it when he ran off to cameo in Vesperia.
    • According to Tales of Phantasia: Narakiri Dungeon, Dhaos was the leader of a nation trying to stop a war between two other nations. The effort failed, and one of the warring countries fired off its experimental mana cannon...with the same tired results as ever other firing of a mana cannon in a Tales game. After that, he came to Aselia looking for a mana seed and Tales of Phantasia happened. What happened to Kratos in the time between ToS and the flashback in ND 1 is a mystery.
    • Kratos went back to Derris Kharlan so he could destroy all Expheres there. That would include his own Cruxis Crystal. So, he was long dead by the time Phantasia happened, he "screwed up" just as much as Lloyd and co. did by "letting" Fenris and Odin rebuild the Mana Cannon.

Lloyd's wings at the end.

  • Seriously. What? I just... that came out of nowhere. There's specific requirements and consequences to becoming an angel, and as far as I can tell Lloyd never went through any of them.
    • If you noticed at the end, when Lloyd destroyed Mithos's Cruxis Crystal, a ring of sparkly sparkliness from the Crystal flowed into Lloyd's Exsphere. It's clear that Lloyd took Mithos's power at that point, so Lloyd had wings because of Mithos's essence in his Exsphere. Lloyd became an Angel for that reason.
      • Er, yeah, that, and Lloyd had the super special Exsphere that was above even Mythos's own? The Angelus Project? That also had a slight something to do with it. It didn't come out of nowhere, Lloyd was on his way becoming an angel throughout the entire game.
        • Also,from a genetical point of view,ho boy!Being concieved from a test subject who has already been experimented on for some time (and genes can mutate or change if exposed to a factor for a constant time) AND from a 4000 year old being who was affected so long by a Cruxis Crystal.It only makes wonder why Lloyd was born HUMAN and not something else!
        • It depends on whether or not their gametes were affected. If they were unaffected, or the DNA in the reproductive cells were altered only slightly, then Lloyd being human is not that surprising.
    • Lloyd's wings are also different from the others in that they're much wider (each one's span is longer than Lloyd is tall), while the other angels and Chosen have smaller wings.
    • The answer is quite simple: Namco Fucked Up. The End. Perhaps there was some intention to hint at this, and then reveal it all in the end, but it got cut, and we were left with this.
      • Kratos couldn't have affected the whole wings thing, as he is technically still a human,and has no angelic DNA. If you removed his Exsphere, he'd go on aging like a normal human,and just die. So I think that the 'he got his wings from Mithos' theory is much more accurate, as Lloyd has no angelic genetic data; he's pure human.
  • There's also the fact that Origin specifically told him that his body, even with the exsphere, wouldn't be able to handle the power needed to drag back Derris-Kharlan, and presumably making the whole thing very painful to do. Since creating an angel seems to require a great deal of suffering on the angel-to-be's part... that and all the other reasons listed might have something to do with it.
  • Sure this is WMG, but this is a case of clear answer is clear: He got them from his Cruxis Crystal. The Angeleus Project creates Cruxis Crystals- and Lloyd has the only fully complete Angeleus Project Cruxis Crystal. He's already equipped with a Key Crest (which removes the adverse effects of becoming an Angel/using an Exsphere (Remember: the only suffering angel we see is Colette- and she suffers because, in all technicality she's wielding an Exsphere WITHOUT a Key Crest, and you cure her of the problems caused by that by getting her a Key Crest)) so obviously, all Lloyd needed to do was tap into that particular power of his Exsphere/Cruxis Crystal.

The warship in Palmacosta.

  • What on earth is that thing supposed to be used for. It seems to be the only one of its kind, and no wars are being fought. The only reason for Palmacosta to have a military in the first place is the Desians, whom to the best of my memory have no coastal assets whatsoever on Sylvarant (Rodyle's base was on Tethe'alla, right?), yet it has a full, active and on-duty crew manning it. A ship-of-the-line like that seems far too excessive/expensively-maintained to just deal with aquatic monster problems, and the closest thing mentioned to a pirate in the game is Aifried. Finally, it appears to be the one and only example of Steam-based technology in the whole of Sylvarant.
    • Nope. Rodyle's base is in Sylvarant.
      • Do they know about it?
      • Well, it's right outside of town and filled to the brim with captives, so I'd assume they know about it.
        • Unlike the other ranches the Remote Island Ranch isn't a large building visible from a distance. It's pretty well hidden. They probably have no clue about it (not only because it's hidden but also because Magnius is a Large Ham that draws all the attention to his ranch).
      • I suspect the Desians actually have a navy that we don't see (The player only has to board a ship once in Sylvarant, and only uses the EC between when they're going back to Sybak and they complete the Tethe'alla Base), or at least that the Palmacostans keep the ship around so they'll be able to defend against an attack from the sea, or perhaps escort ships that might come under attack.

What were the terms of Mithos' pact with Volt?

According to Volt, Mithos' pact with Volt was broken, and he fights the party becuase he doesn't want a pact. As Mithos still has his pact with the other seven Summon Spirits and Maxwell, and only broke his contract with Origin by using the Eternal Sword for his plan, this would suggest that Volt's pact was somehow different from the others and Mithos did something to break it while upholding the others.

  • He broke all the pacts—that's why you're able to make new ones with them. Volt is just the only one who refuses to get a new one. Oh, and Origin is the only spirit proactive enough to actually withdraw his support when his pact was broken.

What's up with the amgel wings?

It may be because I haven't finished the game, but I haven't seen any angels with actual bird wings like Remial does. Collette, Kratos and Mithos all have butterfly/dragonfly wings (though the wings seem to get more featherlike the bigger they are). Is it because Remial was a relatively low ranking angel?

  • As far as I can tell, an angel's wing shape is like a human's fingerprints; no two are anywhere near similar.
  • The feather wings are probably "for show," i.e. given to angels who will be appearing to humans in order to fit the image of an "angel." Other than that, neither seems any more effective than the other.
  • Actually, all of the enemy angels (the ones you fight in Derris-Kharlan and Vinheim, for example) have feather wings as well. I'd say it's a mixture of the rank thing and being for show. (Remiel was obviously higher rank than the mooks.) Or, kind of a stretch, it could be a symbol of their power. All the higher-ups have the mana wings and are stronger, while the mooks and Remiel have feather wings and are a lot weaker.
  • Colette, Kratos, Mithos, and Yuan are all Seraphim, and Seraphim have six wings (three sets). Assumably, only lesser angels have bird wings.

Why did Mithos save the party at the Remote Island Ranch?

Seems like it would have been much better for him to just let them die.

  • Because he could still use Colette at that point. But he could have just saved Colette and left everyone else, then. Not like they'd be alive afterward to come after him. So I guess that's not right..
  • Or he could have been giving the party a chance to join him. Before he revealed himself as Yggdrasill, he was trying to coax at least Genis into joining his side. Wasn't that part of the point of him appearing as Mithos to them in the first place? Or maybe I'm missing something..
  • Firstly, there was the fact that Colette was still usable, but secondly, I think it's just as important that Mithos was genuinely attached to Genis. He did, after all, give him his sister's keepsake to help call him, and Martel meant the world to him.

4,000 years between Symphonia and Phantasia?

I see 4,000 years between the two games quoted everywhere, but I haven't been able to find out where this number came from. I don't believe it's stated in either game. Was it revealed in some guide book or interview or something? Did fans just pull it out of thin air?

  • I think it's a case of All There in the Manual but I can't quite remember WHICH manual.
    • The OVA. It gives the exact year in the "Aselian timeline". Year one presumably began with the reunion of the two worlds.

Why do the Summon Spirits continue to support Mithos even after his vow is broken?

Volt and Origin are the only ones who say their pact with Mithos was broken. All the rest are apparently still bound by the broken promise until the next summoner arrives, at which point they even tell her they can't make the pact because they already have a pact with Mithos; until she specifically requests they annul the previous pact, at which point they immediately accept. What about their behavior makes any sense?

  • Nature spirits in fiction are almost always shown to be extremely reactionary, only acting when they absolutely have to.

How does Raine know about the Olfe Uprising?

In the skit "There She Goes!", Raine claims the Olfe Uprising occurred 130 years ago, but then Regal says it's an important event in modern Tethe'allan history. So if the Olfe Uprising was in Tethe'alla, how does Raine know about it?

  • She was old enough to have coherent memory when her mother left her and Genis to be warped to Sylvarant. Maybe she was obsessed with history even then?
  • She's 23 in the game and said Genis, who's 12, was a newborn when they went through the Otherworldly Gate. That means she was at least 11 when she and Genis were sent to Sylvarant. That's plenty of time for her to have learned about an important event in Tethe'alla's history.
  • She's an archaeologist. Every time you stay at an inn in Tethe'alla, she probably spends the bulk of the night reading up on the history of this new world.

How do Raine and Genis manage to pass for Elves?

...when they don't have pointy ears? Are there even any elves in Sylvarant?

  • If there are, nobody has seen them, considering that most, if not all, Elves stay in their village in Tethe'alla. And even there, the only people to have actually seen them are emissaries from the King.
  • They have weird hair and can use magic. Elves are uncommon in Sylvarant, half-elves even moreso. They probably don't know the difference and took it at face value. They hair also seems to purposely cover their ears.

So, Kratos and Anna...

Did Kratos and Anna seriously travel around for 3 years + 9 months + however long it took them to decide to have Lloyd, without thinking to have a Key Crest made for Anna? She was just going around with a dangerous crestless exsphere that whole time, until someone finally decided to exploit it and turn her into a monster?

  • It's been a while since I last played the game, so I could be wrong, but I could've sworn that Anna was captured by the Desians after she had Lloyd and everything after that happened in quick succession.
  • Key Crests are Dwarven magitechnology, and nearly all the Dwarves above the surface work for Cruxis. Kratos and Anna spent 3+ years alternately running from Cruxis and the Desians, and looking for someone who could make her one that would work on her special Exsphere. Their enemies caught up right as they finally found someone, a Dwarf who was on the run from Cruxis as well. After it was all over with, he settled down on the surface to raise their child, as per Anna's dying wish.


Shakespeare in Tethe'alla?

  • In Meltokio, near Zelos' mansion, there's a noblegirl and a nobledude exchanging...Shakespeare. Completely unrelated Shakespeare, no less. The dude's going all Hamlet, and the girl is questioning why Romeo is Romeo. A. Yes, I realize it was, meta-fashion, the localization/translation team flaunting some 'speare, but...what the heck, there was a Shakespeare in TOS? Or some Expy?
    • And two, they say it's a game. A game of...what, exactly? Exchanging random Shakespeare quotes that are completely unrelated? Hamlet ≠ Romeo & Juliet.
    • And if there WAS a 'speare in the TOS Universe, then when did he come about? Before or after the war? Half-elf? Human? Elf? Something else?! It just bugs me!
    • Also "Wherefore art thou Romeo" does not mean "Where are you, Romeo?" but "Why are you called Romeo?"
      • Ack. I had forgotten about that; my bad. Thanks, 'tis fixed.
    • Anyway my guess is Tethe'alla had its own equivalent of the bard who conveniently wrote the same stuff as him. Or perhaps Zelos himself wrote them as a way to kill time.
    • There's a carbon copy of every human being that ever lived on Earth in the TOS universe, just with a different name or something. Shakespeare is no exception.

Are there other elf-human hybrids?

  • There are half elves, sure, but they never mention any one quarter-elves or three quarter-elves. Surely in the past more than 4000 years there have been at least enough to be known. 4000 years is a long time
    • In Tales of Phantasia you meet Edward Morrison's kids who are presumably quarter-elves unless his wife is also a half-elf. But yeah, it does seem like there should be more of them around. Maybe half-elves hook up with other half-elves or avoid having kids because the don't want to outlive them?
    • Perhaps quarter-elves and three quarter-elves et cetera just identify themselves as half-elves? Not to mention, with most of the elves of the world living in Heimdall (which barely allows human contact), there are probably fewer half-elves who actually one elf and one human parent than you'd first realize anyway. Or perhaps a half-elf has simply never (openly/knowingly) had a child with anyone other than another half-elf?
    • Zelos' sister is a quarter-elf. She is show to be treated as primarily human with the only stigma being attached to her mother. Other elven descendents would presumably be treated the same way.
      • A prime example being Sheena, since to be a summoner you need elven blood.

Do the Grand Cardinals not know who their own leaders are?

Kratos and Yuan are basically second only to Yggdrassill, and yet no one, the Desians or the Grand Cardinals ever mention it? I think it would be a bit of a Oh Crap for them to see one of your bosses suddenly come up to you. Heck, Kvar outright boasts over how Kratos killed Anna, and he's standing right there! You'd think he'd counter with a quick Judgment or something.

  • Everything above Pronyma is probably kept secret to preserve The Masquerade.
    • Oh they know them. Kvar and Magnius are just stupid. Magnius recognizes Kratos ("You're... then I've been deceived!) eventually, and so does Forcystus.

The Penguinists. Just... the Penguinists.

What in the name of Martel is UP with them?!

  • Jerkasses in costumes? But no, actually, they're just a species of monster, that when you actually think about it... are some serious Nightmare Fuel.
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