Talk:Apology Not Accepted

I think we have enough examples and categories. Plus it technically exists on TV Tropes already.

@Agiletek @GentlemensDame883 @HeneryVII @Ilikecomputers @Jlaw @Lequinni‎ @RivetVermin @Umbire the Phantom @Utini501 @Labster @Looney Toons @GethN7 @Robkelk @QuestionableSanity @Derivative @SelfCloak

Plus it technically exists on TV Tropes already.

It's been over a decade since the fork. Why would ATT care what TVT has nowadays?

I did some work here.

A bit of a tip: "In xyz, this happens" is clearer than "XYZ had this happen", because I am clearly signposting that what follows occurs within a work with the "In" keyword. The comma also gives readers an opportunity to take a break, which helps break up long sentences.

Looks okay to me. Vote to launch

There is way too much over-spoilering in the examples. Per Handling Spoilers and Style Guide/Spoilers we don't want massive blocks of spoilered text; in fact, the former classes it as "Please, God, End It Now". Spoilering hundreds of words at a shot -- especially for examples that are twenty or more years old and probably count as It Was His Sled -- is lazy and careless. Voting not to launch until it's all cleaned up, and I can pretty much guarantee the other mods will do the same.

Hmm, is the solution then removing the spoilers and warning that this trope often has plot spoilers?

That would be fine -- and instead of a text warning just put the template {{Unmarked Spoilers}} right before the {{Examples}} template.

I can do that easily.

@Looney Toons I've updated it with the Unmarked Spoilers template and unspoilered the examples.

Some of the examples are very long, and I have to wonder how the Sailor Moon examples are actually examples of the trope, but I think this is ready. Voting to launch.

Thanks, Rob. I can shorten them if necessary; my concern is if people unfamiliar with the works have enough context. Sailor Moon we can discuss since that first episode at least is about Shingo working hard to earn that apology.

Poking people about voting to launch.

@Agiletek @GentlemensDame883 @HeneryVII @Ilikecomputers @Jlaw @Lequinni‎ @RivetVermin @Umbire the Phantom @Utini501 @Labster @Looney Toons @GethN7 @Robkelk @QuestionableSanity @Derivative @SelfCloak

Abstaining: on the surface everything's good and meets the requirements to launch. If you poke deeper, some descriptions are long and difficult to follow along, but this isn't a big enough issue for me to straight up cast a "no" vote.

Quite a few entries are still long and clunky. Holding off on a vote for now.

Which entries would you like me to edit specifically? I can shorten them,

Pet Shop of Horrors would be a good place to start. Try to make all entries around the length of Lilo & Stitch. Don't go too deep into the plot, only what is necessary to explain the trope and explore its implications.

Okay. My concern is clarity though I have done some shortening. Did Pet Shop of Horrors, Sailor Moon, and Buffy. How do they look?

I scanned through Pet Shop of Horrors and Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Ideas are noticeably clearer and easier to follow along, bringing us one step closer to launch. Previously I can't understand how a trope would apply to a work; now I can. However, we aren't 100% finished yet. We can still do some work, for example I would shorten

"In the season 2 premiere, Buffy is suffering bad PTSD from the Master killing her, and it means that she's unusually sour with all her friends. Xander tolerates this until vampires kidnap Willow, along with Giles and Cordelia, to bring back the Master. Buffy is horrified and apologizes for being off her game. He tells her to shove it unless she can help mount a rescue, though they later make up once their friends are saved. Whether or not Xander had a point is muddied by the fact that Buffy can't talk to a trauma specialist about her PTSD, and Giles doesn't count as her watcher."

to

"In the season 2 premiere, Buffy is suffering PTSD from the Master killing her, so she is unusually sour with all her friends. Xander tolerates this until vampires kidnap Willow, Giles and Cordelia to bring back the Master. Buffy is horrified and apologizes for being off her game. Xander tells her to shove it unless she can help mount a rescue, though they later make up once their friends are saved."

Your next job is to go through the examples and find phrases which can be shortened. The shorter the sentence, the easier it is for me to follow along. For example, I shortened "and it means that" to "so". The word "that" as well as "emphasis" words such as "very" and "a lot" may be taken out. After all, Brevity Is Wit.

If you need me to help, just let me know :)

When writing examples, keep in mind that most people on trope pages probably aren't familiar with the work you're talking about.

When writing examples, keep in mind that most people on trope pages probably aren't familiar with the work you're talking about.

If somebody needs to add any of {{context}}, {{verify}}, {{when}}, {{where}}, or {{who}} to an example, then the example is written poorly.

Yes, it is a difficult balancing act to write concisely without leaving out necessary information.

This does help. I am still shortening entries and the Buffy example does help.

@Ilikecomputers any help would be great!

I'm in the middle of an edit pass right now.

Another hint: you might want to include a trope that best describes a character before their name to introduce them to the audience, or include this as a pothole in their name. This makes the summary easier to follow along. You don't need to do this if the text already says who they are (e.g. "Leon's little brother Chris"). In the work page, your audience is probably already familiar with the title, therefore you don't need this introduction if you're writing it there.

For example, my Little Witch Academia entry from the Adaptational Weakling page is "In the 2017 Little Witch Academia series, The Hero and Inept Mage Atsuko "Akko" Kagari was much weaker compared to the original films." In the page for Little Witch Academia, I put "Akko got much weaker in the series compared to the original films". Notice I also included Akko's full name in the trope page.

A good example from this trope page: "The novel 72 Hour Hold features the protagonist Keri".

Let's see...

I've done a small edit pass up to the end of the Live-Action TV section, where I trimmed out some "dead weight" elements that don't have anything to do with an apology being rejected. I may have cut out some important information (like stuff showing implications of the trope), so feel free to add those back in. The phrase "And later on, this rejected apology would serve as the starting point in her and Jimmy crossing the Moral Event Horizon and ruining his life and reputation out of petty spite" in the Better Call Saul entry is a good example of looking at trope implications.

We need to rewrite the first Harry Potter example. It's too long and difficult to follow along, and I don't see an apology being rejected. I only see an apology not being made.

I shortened the Percy example. It felt like Percy wanted to make amends but was too proud to say "Sorry" outright. So just shortened to the mashed parsnips revenge.

This page is far from perfect (no trope page will ever be), but we've done enough work for me to cast the "yes" vote to launch.

I've looked over the page with the same amount of care that I'd use in a pre-launch cleanup, and fixed a few very minor issues. Vote to launch.

Launch.

That's better now. Agreed on launching.

That's four yes votes! Thank you, everyone.

Launched but not entry-pimped - I'm short on time today.