Talk:Gamergate

CBC News: Pushback against sexual harassment in the gaming industry grows with high-profile resignations. CBC is pretty good about being neutral.

The article doesn't mention Gamergate, but it does provide evidence for the anti-GG position.

Unless there's solid proof that someone in the article is referencing Gamergate, I'd be cautious about adding it.

Which doesn't appear to be the case.

Thanks.

This article seems like it's had the tag practically forever, and in any case I intend to take a look at it and trim it down accordingly. There's also been the questions of neutrality raised in the past (in the sense that all views are represented genuinely and accurately) and between that, what's brought up on the cleanup template, and all the hindsight we have about gaming journalism being shaky well before it was used as the backdrop for some inane subculture "war", I'm heavily inclined to triple-check its presentation as well. Any help to that end would be appreciated.

Okay, though if one wants to use more sources on GG, there's the KotakuInAction2, a subreddit that was form due to disagreements with the KIA mods.

I am nervous editing this GG page though, since I don't wanna mess it up like I did with "Fuck No, TV Tropes" page.

For what it's worth, you weren't necessarily the only one guilty of turning the article into an anti-TVT soapbox. You've also shown a lot of improvement lately, so while I do advise approaching this with some caution, it's as much because of the subject matter as it is anything I think you might do.

But yeah, don't feel like you're obligated to, especially if you're not sure you can do it justice.

Also I'm generally wary of sourcing KIA, though that may or may not be for more personal reasons, but in any case we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Well, some of the mods are crazy in KIA. I thought that since I have a world record of wikiholism over at the GG wiki that they might cut me some slack (I expected a post deletion with a note stating that went overboard and broke the rules), but I would have been ban at the main KIA subreddit if it wasn't for another mod. Though some other redditors stated some of the KIA mods were like this for quite a long time.

I just source the articles and the subreddit and the Voat version of whence I found it when I'm doing the GG wiki. So, people can see a bit more of the mindset of the KIA residents. Though if the rules here says just the articles then I can follow those directions.

> There's also been the questions of neutrality

This question has a simple answer: it doesn't exist. :)

> in the sense that all views are represented genuinely and accurately

This can actually be done. By replacing the mentions with proper quotes (and why not?)

Well, I was trying to be charitable about it. :y

And yeah, that's a possible place to start.

[Delete this, I swore I was initially replying directly to TB.]

Are we going against the rule of thumb that I mentioned three years ago by using these terms?

Are these names the ones that the groups themselves use, or are we guilty of supporting one side by using a possibly-derogatory term that the side applied to the other side?

IMPORTANT that we get an answer here. Depending on the answer, possibly important that we also fix things.

Honestly, it's a bit unclear. Both sides have used them, their origins are a bit hazy.

It seems that, unless Geth or I prod people, the examples end up being pro-Gamergate instead of being neutral. Since Geth initially wrote a neutral article, this might be an issue.

The recent additions were actually taken from recent events over the past few weeks. Also, I think the disclaimer on top is fairly reasonable.

Fair enough. Perhaps I'm the one who's having trouble seeing where the balance lies.

And perhaps I'm not. I just commented out one of your new examples because of what appears to be a derogatory term used in it. Please either fix or delete it.

It's pretty obvious that you're pro-GG. I'd appreciate it if you wrote a few examples from the anti-GG point of view - not from a strawman position, but what they actually believe. That message at the top is not supposed to be a disclaimer - it's an apology from All The Tropes for letting the article become unbalanced. We'd like to be able to honestly remove it.

I concur. I'm pro-GG as well, but "aGGro" is a derisive slur and should NOT be used.

I have fixed the issue myself, but I want to make something very clear: I felt it better to have the page than try to ignore this issue because of its implications on a wide variety of tropable media as well as because of its impact and influence on the same, but we will not be shills for either side, even in the slightest degree, and if a question arises over the neutrality again, I will immediately deal with it if another admin does not, and I leave matters to the discretion of other admins should they decide to act before I do.

Let me apologize right now, as the derison through the use of "aGGre" wasn't intentional. Also tried to make the additions and examples generally more neutral.

Thank you.

As for names of groups, there's a rule of thumb that I learned in other situations that might help here. Is the name you're using the name that the group uses for itself? If it is, you're probably okay (but see N-Word Privileges for when it isn't).

Hi, this is my new account. It's nice that you have added some tropes to this thing.

Thanks! I wrote some that were in the back of my mind for quite some time.

You can thank Msq too, he added most of the new tropes.

This post was posted by SelfCloak, but signed as Olicool10.

Just a heads up, this topic is banned on a certain wiki that i'm also a member of. But why? The size of the community, perhaps?

Go ahead and name the wiki in question.

If you're wondering why we have one here, It both because (A) TV Tropes refuses to host one and I figured we might as well and (B) their issue seems to be wanting to avoid any shred of potential conflict, though I felt they were causing more by refusing to discuss the topic at all in any way shape or form.

Hence why I wrote as impartial a Useful Notes page on the topic as humanly possible.

TV Tropes.org, Geth. And i'm sorry for being on both sides. Is it okay?

Uh, why would I mind? Fast Eddie used to persecute people from Something Awful if he discovered tropers were members there, and while I don't like SA myself, banning people for being members of a site you don't like is just the height of being an asshole.

As I've stated in multiple fora, I'd like TVT and ATT to get along, as I consider us all members of the greater troping community, and thus I'm pleased to know you're a member of both sites.

Hopefully, both will prosper by your dual membership. :)

And you're certainly not the first dual-membership troper, RM.

I have to say that I quite like how this is probably THE only completely neutrally-written article I've ever seen about Gamergate. I'll preface this by saying that I have little to no patience for Anita Sarkeesian, Zoe Quinn, or anyone of their ilk and have the firm belief that people need to keep political narratives OUT of video games and make them more about having fun rather than getting preachy on you. The amount of bullying, doxxing, and death threats (One particularly fucked up one came towards Youtuber AlphaOmegaSin who had someone who (I think) was anti-Gamergate threatening to SLIT HIS SON'S THROAT IN FRONT OF HIM) from that side only further increases my hatred for them.

However, I can't support Gamergate either because quite frankly, I'm tired of them acting like their shit doesn't stink either. I mean, look what happened to Felicia Day for Christ's sake! It just annoys me that anytime someone supporting Gamergate sends death/rape threats to people, you always hear "It's just a troll/false flag, or someone who isn't a TRUE Gamergate supporter!" and there's the fact that you are called out as a shill if you try to discuss things like that.

I can't remember who said this, but I think they're 100% correct when they stated that (paraphrased) "Gamergate was never about ethics in journalism. It's a culture war between hipsters and nerds". Probably the best quote I've heard thus far regarding the situation.

I guess what I really want to say is that I'm sick of the bullshit, the mud-flinging, and the undying hatred I've seen on both sides. I just want to play video games and have a hell of a good time playing them.

Thanks. Since this event DOES have media based on or inspired by it, I figured a basic useful notes page couldn't hurt, and despite my own personal feelings towards any of the above, I went to a lot of effort to be as impartial as possible, and on a personal note, I couldn't really care about either side at the end of the day, I just want to play some games and have fun.