Talk:Power Systems

I apologize for pinging you all; I believe this page is suitable for launch, especially with help from @Umbire the Phantom, @Agiletek, @RevetVermin, and @Jlaw. I have done an edit pass, but if there is still a problem, I don't mind discussing it so that it can be resolved. Thank you for reading my post.@Labster @Looney Toons @GethN7 @Robkelk @QuestionableSanity @Derivative @SelfCloak

Sorry to bother all of you on this discussion, but I am asking for your insight on if this workshop page is launchable. If there are any problems, I wouldn't mind reading about any details. Thank you for reading my message, and have a nice day.@Bauerbach @Dominicmgm @GentlemensDame883 @H-Games~Documentation @HelljmprRookie @HeneryVII @Ilikecomputers @Just a 1itt1e bit further @Lequinni‎ @RivetVermin @Tad Cipher @The23rdCamper @TheEric132

Haven't done a deep grammar check yet, but a quick surface skim shows this is ready for launch and has all the essential outlines of a trope. Voting yes for now.

I do want to say, I prefer an image as a representation of the trope, because you can quickly tell what the trope is about at a glance. With the video, you have to first click the "play" button then watch for at least ten seconds to understand what it is about. Everyone who visits a page will see an image. Not everyone will click on that video. An image is a much faster way to present information. Plus, the video example is probably better suited for Training From Hell.

That said, I do want the video link to stay. We can incorporate it into the example for My Hero Academia.

Okay, I get what you are saying about the video. I was thinking along that the video might do a better job with showing the variety of the class' Quirks. The picture before only showed two character in it and I thought that it might be too boring while not being able to show different powers in the setting.

I quite like it. Sure, it doesn't show a lot, but that means a lot is left to the imagination. It gives just enough hints to let you understand the trope, but leaves enough for your imagination to run wild. Sometimes, less is more. I think this is one of those times.

Alright, I changed the image to a gif that shows a bit more while leaving to the imagination. Is that better than the video?

Yes. So much better. It gives us even more information than the image, so your imagination can even run wilder, without giving away too much! Plus, it adds some moving parts to an otherwise static page, but doesn't oversaturate the page with hyper aggressive, distracting movement.

The quality could be a bit better, but I'm nitpicking at this point.

Thanks, I had to do some searching but I made a gif. Due to the limitation of the site, I had to compress it so that it can play which explains the lower quality.

I don't want to bother the admins with these discussions, especially since they might have trouble with spammers. I also want to apologize for pinging you all; I want to progress on this, especially since 2 months have passed. I feel like I have been patient enough, and if the admins have too much on their plate, I beg the other users who can vote on if this is launchable. @Agiletek @Bauerbach @Dominicmgm @GentlemensDame883 @H-Games~Documentation @HelljmprRookie @HeneryVII @Ilikecomputers @Jlaw @Just a 1itt1e bit further @Lequinni‎ @RivetVermin @Tad Cipher @The23rdCamper @TheEric132 @Umbire the Phantom @Utini501 @Xemylixa

I forgot to include the "yes" vote in my last message in this thread. Oops.

Looks really good.

Might still need some tweaking, but tentative yes.

Alright, with my yes included. That makes three votes, I guess. I hope that it's means Just Launch It Already. Now, I just need the admins for clean up and launching it.

If you have time to do the cleanup yourself, that would make the admins' job easier.

Vote to launch.

Sorry for bothering you; four votes are now to launch this Trope Workshop page. I am asking to launch the page since it's been three years, and the others on this discussion can't find many problems. However, if there are any, I don't mind them being pointed out, and I will do my best to fix them. @Labster @Looney Toons @GethN7 @Robkelk @QuestionableSanity @Derivative @SelfCloak

@Labster@GethN7@Looney Toons@Robkelk

Kuma is concerned that his tags are not reaching you guys in the system, I just wanted to reach out to verify this? Thanks.

We've been busy preparing to move the wiki since Miraheze was announced as shutting down, then helping Labster put together his "save Miraheze" plan so that we wouldn't need to move the wiki after all. Some other things are falling through the cracks.

I received Kuma's most recent ping, but have not had time to do anything about it.

@Derivative, the last time I looked, you were also an admin...

Kuma reached out to me on a different social media outlet confused, I was trying to help that user. Thanks for clearing things up.

I have had a very busy weekend, and did not have time to respond. My apologies.

I'm pinging the admins to hopefully open up this discussion again. This trope has passed the vote long ago, and it's patiently waiting in the workshop. Now that we've dealt with the craziness, We can probably launch this.

@Labster @Looney Toons @GethN7 @Robkelk @QuestionableSanity @Derivative @SelfCloak

Quoting myself from three months ago:

If you have time to do the cleanup yourself, that would make the admins' job easier.

That cleanup still hasn't happened.

Sorry if I seem dumb, but what is this "cleanup" we have to do?

The pre-launch cleanup - give the entire page a spelling check, remove the headers for sections that don't have any content, and basically make the page look like a full Trope page instead of a Trope Workshop page.

There we go: The spelling on the page looks good (all my browser spellchecker could pick up on was in universe proper nouns and names, or words that technically aren't in English but everyone will understand anyway), deleted the headers that doesn't have content, deleted the "trope workshop" template, and deleted the DEFAULTSORT instruction comments.

Excellent, thanks.

The trope is now launched, but not entry-pimped.

There hasn't been a respond for around three years, so I am resolving it.

Can anyone help with adding example or help with the summary of the tropes?

X-Men has a certain gene that turns people into mutants. I think it's the "X-Gene" or something.

I am a bit iffy on that since the X-Gene is what makes them mutant. Mutations might what the trope describes but have people consider mutations are the term for a mutant's superpowers?

There hasn't been a respond for around three years, so I am resolving it.

I was thinking that the trope's name may need some work. I have though about 'Labeled Powers', 'Grouped Powers', 'Organized Powers', or 'Unique Powers'. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I dunno, my brain just crashed and I'm just going by description (Bare in mind I haven't given it much thought), so I am thinking that it should be called something other than "Quirk" or "Nen", if the trope needs a name change.

That's okay, I was just curious if the current name fits the description like most other tropes.

My crashed brain was all "Let's make this into a 'Trope Namer'", instead of being practical.

I guess but the current title seems to works from what I can tell. Do you agree?

Agree.

Thank you

There hasn't been a respond for around three years, so I am resolving it.

The crests pass through bloodline and everyone who inherited them at the same potency uses them the same way. For most of the cast they're the only one shown to have them on screen, but aren't in the wider world according to the lore as I understand it.

As in, not restricted to one specific individual, but restricted to a bloodline?

Hmm. Doesn't look like we have it already defined. And it's a Missing Supertrope to a few things. Maybe have it included with an explicit mention, then split?

What house crests are we talking about here? Arthur, Lancelot, Galahad, Mordred, Gawain, and the others around the Round Table? Gryffindor, Slytherin, Huffelpuff, and Ravenclaw? Something else entirely?

Robkelk, they are talking about Fire Emblem Three Houses. Well the crests do follow into a bloodline but the people descend in the family who inherit them do use them. Each person could be born with a Major or Minor Crest while also each Crest gives their own powers. So each person within a certain family could carry a Crest which would mean a specific people from specific families would use it. An example would be how would be how Edlegard has a Minor Crest of Seiros which give her more Might when using a combat art. Claude has the crest of Riegan which restores 30% of HP when using combat arts. Dimitri inherited the Crest of Blaiddyd which doubles Attack and weapons use when using combat arts. There is also how according to the lore of the game that Crests are said to be power incarnate which means that if we think as some sort powers then they can increase physical strength, regenerative abilities, and defense against attacks.So each Crest depending on the family can give a person a certain divine ability.

Ah, so the bloodline itself only allows to use it. This seems close to Sword in The Stone. Perhaps it needs its own page… if you can figure out how to name it. I remember a few Forgotten Realms examples of magic items tied to specific bloodlines, one even used by an unlikely heir to prove royal descent. And wasn't that sort of thing used in Stargate? That's 3 entries already.

Well they are inherited within a bloodline but not everyone within it has a crest. Those who inherited a crest are given prestige within the society and some sort of power compared to other people within the setting. There is also how there is also different crest with different powers.

There hasn't been a respond for around three years, so I am resolving it.

How is this trope substantially different from Differently-Powered Individual, and not just a specialized case of it?

The same way as All-Ghouls School is different from Not Using the Z Word? The description does sidetrack, however.

Perhaps the description could be tightened up a bit?

Well, I originally just wanted it to focus on superpowers that can be identified but then other people put in example that does resemble it but it does give a term for the power. If whatever examples that does detail powers that goes by a common term then I it would help to remove them. There are setting where powers are help without given the people a term to described these powered individuals such as Quirks, Stands, and Nen. There are example that do have powers that goes by terms while also making them Differently-Powered Individuals such as Abnormalities for Abnormals, Branch of Sin for Deadmen, Gates for Gate Keepers, PSI for Psychiers, and Graces for Graclings. The difference between how these examples that do involve Differently Powered Individuals have a term for their powers while also giving one for a person that could have such a power. The point of it is how the tropes focuses on the superpower and yes it crosses with it but only when there is a term to identify the superpower. If it helps I could get rid of the examples that may not fit well such as the one from Darker than Black. Would that help?

The discussion seems to be resolved and there hasn't been a respond for around a year, so I am resolving it.

I think the Naruto example does not apply, not as it is written. Ninjutsu, Tai and Nen are ways of using chakra. Chakra itself is the power which all the ninjas have. Kekkei genkais fit the definition since those are special abilities only certain people can use, unlike most other jutsus which anybody can in theory learn, limitations aside.

Okay, I say that Jutsus still fits because of how they work and how ninjas use them. Ninjas can use any Jutsu from the main types and subcategories, but they often specialize. There is also the factor of chakra affinity to one of the basic elements. Ninjas have an easier time learning to use ninjutsu of their affinity compared to others, but it is possible to train more than one. There are also cases where ninjas may not be able to use other forms of Jutsu like Rock Lee. Interestingly, most Kekkei Genkais use chakra, where two or three elements are combined to make new elemental nature with its unique effects. This power system can also be compared to others, such as Nen, which anyone can use, but different factors cause the user to use it in unique ways. Another is PSI from Psyren where Psychiers all have access to telepathy(Trance), superhuman physicality(Rise), and a special ability(Burst). Burst is a special power personal to Psychiers, but they can use other psychic powers. Haki from One Piece can be used by everyone, but certain people born with one type of Haki can use all three. There is also how people have an affinity with one of the types. Jutsu fits the trope from what I can tell, along with other similar examples to Naruto's. If there is something that I missed, then I am willing to read it.

There hasn't been a respond for around a year, so I am resolving it.

As far as I'm concerned, it seems to boil down to "A setting has a special term for super powers that means 'super powers'". While yes, it's undeniably true, how does it matter? How does a different choice of terminology impact a story? Would My Hero Academia have a different plot if it used "metatalents" instead of "quirks"? If the answer is "no", then what we have is a bit of trivia about vocabulary, not a trope that affects the setting or story. And I think the answer is pretty clearly "no".

Nominating for deletion as Not a Trope.

Pinging the Usual Suspects: @Agiletek @GentlemensDame883 @Goo Monster @HeneryVII @HornyLikeIAmA14YearOldGirl @Lequinni‎ @RivetVermin @Umbire the Phantom @Utini501 @Labster @Looney Toons @GethN7 @Robkelk @QuestionableSanity @Derivative @SelfCloak

Sorry to everyone especially @Looney Toons but counter to what Looney Toons stated cannot be made as a post but through a document found here: https://1drv.ms/w/s!AicNiSX_78jbg448opNhsf2qJMuI5w?e=O6uHdy

Sorry, I meant to write: 'but to counter what Looney Toons has stated, I left this link to a document containing it because it would be too large to post:'

I concur, it's Too Rare to Trope

Okay,@HeneryVII I am curious how in anyway is it Too Rare to Trope when there are lots of examples on the page.

Mmm, maybe it's salvageable, but it seems more like a labeling.

Sorry, I meant to write: 'but to counter what Looney Toons has stated, I left this link to a document containing it because it would be too large to post:' I can't post due to how it saying 'timeout' for some reason.

I'm going to play devil advocate for Kuma because I read through the examples and noted something interesting.

The title of the superpower does fit the People Sit On Chairs criteria on its own, but the examples often note how the name is indicative of specific limits of the powers, though some have non-indicative names. The trope could possibly be reworked to highlight these distinctions in naming the powers in question and if the name has special meaning as a plot element.

I second GethN7, along similar lines. A number of these powers all come from the same force, or have some close connection to one another, which can affect, as Geth mentioned, their limits (Deadman Wonderland having all powers requiring the users own blood as a cost being an obvious one), but also affects how those with and without powers would react to one another (see how X-men "mutants" are treated differently than standard superheroes). It would require a retooling of the description and some pruning of examples, but I think it IS a trope.

I don't get the impression of this being a trope so much as a piece of terminology that gets a mention in the work description

Thanks to GethN7 and RivetVermin, I wonder if I have been concentrating on the wrong parts of the trope. First, I would want to change the title to Power Systems. The next is where it should be about the Power Systems and what roles they play in the settings. The next is how when it comes to why the Power Systems are unique to every character. The common examples at least I have picked up on is how unique they come from personality, genetics, or luck is the cause. The other trait is how most of them have their rules, limits, restrictions, etc., which makes them more distinct. An interesting example from Jojo's is how Stands can affect other Stands. People with Stands attract each other where conflict will always arise. Another factor is how they affect the story. If it's a commonplace, a secret a few know about the power, or they act as a catalyst that has or can change the world forever. I can say that Power Systems from popular media has their own wiki pages on Fandoms. They are extensive enough that they could go beyond trivia and show world-building for the setting, along with how they affect the characters. I guess I shouldn't focus on the name part that much, but it is interesting to think about RivetVermin's statement. What other ways can expand it more away from People Sit On Chairs? On a side note, what are People Sit On Chairs, anyway?

Okay, if the plan is to shift the focus of this trope, we'll probably have to come up with a new name, then rewrite the description. Do you want to make a first stab at it, or should one of us have a go?

Sorry for not replying sooner, I would like to suggest Power Systems if that sounds good.

@Example People Sit On Chairs is a trope for something so common it's absurd to trope it. All humans breathe air to live, so a trope about humans breathing oxygen would be a rejected trope since that is so common troping it is absurd.

I do like your idea for reworking the trope, it would take it away from the issues mentioned.

Alright, thanks for telling me about People Sit on Chairs, I am not familiar with tropes like that. I would also like to know what idea do you have for reworking it?

If the whole focus of the trope was on the sources of powers, and the commonalities between the powers granted, then initially casting this as about the naming was just about the most unintuitive approach possible. You had me convinced until the last three messages that this entirely about naming conventions and nothing more.

I'm looking forward to the rewrite. And knowing what this is really supposed to be about, I have more examples to contribute when it's ready.

Well, I would like to post about a possible rewrite. The rewrite can be about superpowers that are unique to every character. One factor about their uniqueness would come from different factors such as personality, genetics, or just plain luck. It can also describe other traits about them, like if they have rules, limitations, advantages, etc., which influence how they are used by characters and even the setting. There is also how they may impact the setting where they are a well-kept secret in The Masquerade. Another example is a society where they are incorporated into everyday life to the point that they can use in employment. Next want to talk about sources of superpowers that varies in media. I would say that these sources may be a trait connected to these superpowers. While they are crucial, I would say that they should be a part of the trope rather than a focus. I am willing to discuss perspectives on why the focus could be on about source of powers if anyone wants to. Also, is there a trope or category for the source of superpowers called Power Source?

Also, is there a trope or category for the source of superpowers called Power Source?

Yes, as you could tell almost instantly two different ways -- first, from the fact that your link there wasn't a redlink, or by using the search prompt on every page to search for it.

Okay, so you agree that the trope should focus on unique powers rather than the sources of powers but making it a part of the trope since there is already a trope for sources of superpowers?

I've been trying to come up with a snappy name for this, and am coming up blank. Best one I have is "Shared Rules of Power" which I guess gets the point across and is reasonably short, but I feel it can be bettered.

Seeing as it deals with many heroes having similarly obtained abilities, Mass Super-Empowering Event would be a good page to compare and contrast (although of course, many examples don't have the singular "event")

Alright, I suggested Power Systems earlier so how about Unique Systematic Powers or Special Systematic Powers? I'd also like to suggest Power Grids, Power Structures, and Superpower Singularities.

Okay, I've rewritten the description in line with what we've been discussing, though I'm sure there's room for improvement. If we're going to go ahead with this interpretation, some examples may need pruning, which we can do once the description is agreed?

I guess it's alright; it's just a bit different from how I would describe the trope, but it works. Looney Toons also made his own changes, which works as well. I am curious about what examples would need to be pruned and why?

In what ways is it different from what you had in mind? It would help us all if you could please elaborate.

Well, I made the trope focusing on superpowers that are usually unique to individuals and the common traits that they share such as their limitations, being categorized, and other characteristics that they may share. The description is nice but I was thinking of having a bit more about the powers in the description.

The description should be clear enough by now.

I am curious if the description on the page is clear enough due to how Robklek mentioned it was confusing. From what I can read it seems to state it clearly. I feel like I am missing something and if that's true I need to make sure to have anything confusion notified so that it can be resolved. So can anyone help me with this?

Not well structured. It goes generally in the right direction, but somewhat meandering.

Okay, so then what would you say is need for it to be more focused. Does it need more details in the description about the trope?

Robkelk help give a good answer to the discussion.

I am confused about how Ruby's Petal Burst is teleportation, as referenced by Looney Toons. I remember Penny's exposition from 'Strings' where she can disassemble herself and others in a close range on a molecular level and then accelerate these molecules. Simply put, she can turn herself and others into petals that she can move at high speed while manipulating their shape. Teleportations involve the transfer of matter from one location to another without physically occupying the space in between to traverse the physical space. Petal Burst needs a clear path, or Ruby will crash into an obstacle. Am I missing something?

That puzzled me as well, so I looked up the word. It turns out that Merriam-Webster has two definitions for "teleportation", and @Looney Toons is using the other definition in this example.

I guess that fits; its just that whenever I think of teleportation, I think more along the lines of poofing one place to another instantly.

The description has already been changed to a better version.

Alright, I wanted to make sure if it was alright to change this part of the description that I think @Jlaw added: "Sure signs that you're dealing with this kind of power-driven link are as follows:

• There is a clear divide between those with powers and those without, possibly leading to the persecution of one or both groups.
• There is a shared name for your abilities or people, like Blessing, Chosen, or Unclean.
• Those with powers organize into factions, either by the nature of their powers, or ideology."

It is not that I think it is wrong but that it would need a different way of describing what they are in a setting like for the Masquerade, Invisible to Normals, or a normal part of the world. I would like to change it to: "Power Systems are Plot Devices that are a part of the setting, meaning they can vary from media." There are many things that Power Systems can be that may go outside the three examples. Here are some of them:

• Nen is a supernatural technique that anyone can awaken to, but it is clandestine due to how much chaos it can cause to the status quo.
• Sigils in the Darwin Game are powers granted by the app to survive combat with other players or events.
• Stands are a power that some people can awaken to due to an arrow created from a meteor.
• Embryos are a gameplay feature in Infinite Dendrogram that is based on the Master's personality and experiences in the world.
• Powers in Seven Deadly Sins are abilities people can awaken to and are usually used by knights and other warriors worldwide.

I plan on making this change soon. So, does this sound like a good idea?

Sounds like a good idea!