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Alternate Character Interpretation:
- Sure, Reed is normally portrayed as brilliant and somewhat arrogant (more so after Civil War), but read these pages to see the Hidden Depths to the character. Doubles as a Crowning Moment of Heartwarming and Tear Jerker.
  - In brief: Reed is just a humble scientist who couldn't care less about being famous or admired. His quest to turn his best friends into revered superheroes was all just penance for robbing them of the chance to live normal lives, because he knew they would have been exploited and used as lab experiments if they didn't have the public's love on their side.
- Alternatively, Reed is a Villain with Good Publicity and the only reason he has yet to Take Over the World it is because Doctor Doom keeps distracting him.
  - May actually be canon, following Civil War. Certainly Doom held at least once press conference pointing out the atrocities being committed by Reed Richards and Tony Stark in the name of Security.
    - Pot to kettle: "You are black."
Complete Monster: Doctor Doom is a case of Depending on the Writer, as he's usually written as an arrogant Noble Demon who believes Utopia Justifies the Means, albeit one who holds murderous grudges over things that are entirely his fault. But then you come to stories like Unthinkable, which was written to subvert his Anti-Villain interpretation, where he is murdering his girlfriend, kidnapping children (trapping one in Hell), and after defeating the Four decides nothing would be more fun than some Cold-Blooded Torture, even toying with killing Reed's baby daughter Valeria just to hurt him. And he's still arrogant enough to think he's the good guy despite all of this.
- Annihilus, especially in the Annihilation Crisis Crossover (not featuring the Four) where he promotes himself to Omnicidal Maniac.
Ensemble Darkhorse/Breakout Character: Doom has arguably become just as popular, if not more so, than the FF themselves, due in no small part to his Memetic Badass status amongst fans (which is not that inaccurate, as it turns out).
- Also, when the comic first debuted, The Thing very quickly became the most popular character due to his stubborn nobility, Woobieness and Deadpan Snarker tendencies.
Ho Yay: There's an alternate universe where Reed married Johnny. Nuff said.
- Johnny and Spiderman have some epic bromance moments, including (but not limited to) Peter joking that Johnny got him pregnant .
- To say nothing of Doom's obsession with Reed (there are LOTS of disturbing fanfics about the two) and Ben's sometimes heartwarmingly (and awkwardly) close relationships with both Reed and Johnny.
Jerkass Woobie: Thing started out as one, constantly lamenting about his appearance and picking fights with Johnny at every given opportunity, going so far as to threaten throwing a car at him. This tension reached the ultimate breaking point when, Johnny, after a massive argument with Ben, temporarily quit the FF, of which Ben couldn't have been more happy. Even when his relationship with Alica began, it was constantly riddled with Wangst over the fact that Alicia preferred The Thing over Ben.
Memetic Mutation: "It's clobberin' time!"
Memetic Sex Goddess: Susan Richards. One of the earliest letters page had a complaint from a fan saying, "You have some nerve making a doll like Sue invisible!"
- "FLAME ON!"
Moral Event Horizon:
- Mark Waid hated the Noble Demon characterization of Doom, so when he came aboard the book he did an arc where Doom flays his Unlucky Childhood Friend alive and makes her skin into a new suit of armor. Unsurprisingly, this didn't take, and Doom has since returned to his original characterization, though the general consensus is that it is a very good story and many fans give Doom props for not crossing the Moral Event Horizon so much as blasting through it with a rocket launcher. After all, thats what great villains do.
- Many fans also believe that Reed himself crossed during Civil War, in which he constructed a Hellhole Prison in a dimension that literally sucks the life out of you, then shipped several of his friends there without trial in the name of "national security." Even post-Dark Reign, he has payed for none of this.
Never Live It Down: Has any writer ever let Namor forget he used to have a crush on Sue?
Tear Jerker: The Last Stand of Johnny Storm. I've just got something in my eye...
They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character:
- Abraxas. This cosmic being represents the embodiment of the destruction of the multiverse, and the polar opposite of Eternity. Galactus was created specifically to act as a Barrier Maiden to keep Abraxas in some sort of prison within Eternity itself. By all rights, Abraxas should be one of the most dreaded villains in Marvel, but despite his importance to the overall history of the Marvel Universe and relation to Galactus (who has appeared hundreds of times) Abraxus has appeared in, to date, five issues.
- Boris Karela, Doctor Doom's surrogate father, right hand man, confidant, advisor, and possibly only true friend. He's had a grand total of 20 appearances since 1964, fans often asking via the letters' page if he's still alive.^[1] This is sort of a shame, given his relation with such an important villain, and is very much wasted potential.
Villain Sue: Mark Millar's controversial character "the Marquis of Death" may be a straight example or a subversion, depending on how you look at it. He was a Diabolus Ex Nihilo more powerful than Galactus who claimed to be the man behind Dr. Doom, at whom he got pissed for becoming a Noble Demon rather than the Card-Carrying Villain he wanted him to be. He effortlessly Mind Rapes and kills Doom, then declares himself Doom's successor. The subversion comes a few issues later when Doom comes back, reveals the Marquis didn't kill him properly, and blows him to Hell. Even with that considered, it's still generally thought of as a terrible story.
The Woobie: Ben Grimm, mutated into the monstrous-looking Thing, but also one of the most respected and beloved superheroes in the Marvel universe.
- Word of God has stated that The Thing is the most beloved superhero in the entire Marvel Universe. This makes him analogous to Nightwing of DC Comics.

↑ As of 2020, yes.

[1] As of 2020, yes.

[1]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 {{work}}
-=== The comics: ===
 * [[Alternate Character Interpretation]]:
 ** Sure, Reed is normally portrayed as brilliant and somewhat arrogant (more so after ''Civil War''), but read [http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9093/1254471298216.jpg these] [http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1604/1254471358579.jpg pages] to see the [[Hidden Depths]] to the character. Doubles as a [[Crowning Moment of Heartwarming]] and [[Tear Jerker]].
 *** In brief: Reed is just a humble scientist who couldn't care less about being famous or admired. His quest to turn his best friends into revered superheroes was all just penance for robbing them of the chance to live normal lives, because he knew they would have been exploited and used as lab experiments if they didn't have the public's love on their side.
-** Alternatively, Reed is a [[Villain With Good Publicity]] and the only reason he has yet to [[Take Over the World]] it is because [[Doctor Doom]] keeps distracting him.
+** Alternatively, Reed is a [[Villain with Good Publicity]] and the only reason he has yet to [[Take Over the World]] it is because [[Doctor Doom]] keeps distracting him.
 *** May actually be canon, following ''Civil War''. Certainly Doom held at least once press conference pointing out the atrocities being committed by Reed Richards and Tony Stark in the name of Security.
 **** Pot to kettle: "You are black."
-* [[Complete Monster]]: [[Doctor Doom]] is a case of [[Depending On the Writer]], as he's usually written as an arrogant [[Noble Demon]] who believes [[Utopia Justifies the Means]], albeit one who holds murderous grudges over things that are [[Never My Fault|entirely his fault]]. But then you come to stories like ''Unthinkable'', which was written to subvert his [[Anti Villain]] interpretation, where he is murdering his girlfriend, kidnapping children (trapping one in ''Hell''), and after defeating the Four decides nothing would be more fun than some [[Cold Blooded Torture]], even toying with killing Reed's baby daugher Valeria just to hurt him. And he's ''still'' arrogant enough to think he's the good guy despite all of this.
+* [[Complete Monster]]: [[Doctor Doom]] is a case of [[Depending on the Writer]], as he's usually written as an arrogant [[Noble Demon]] who believes [[Utopia Justifies the Means]], albeit one who holds murderous grudges over things that are [[Never My Fault|entirely his fault]]. But then you come to stories like ''Unthinkable'', which was written to subvert his [[Anti-Villain]] interpretation, where he is murdering his girlfriend, kidnapping children (trapping one in ''Hell''), and after defeating the Four decides nothing would be more fun than some [[Cold-Blooded Torture]], even toying with killing Reed's baby daughter Valeria just to hurt him. And he's ''still'' arrogant enough to think he's the good guy despite all of this.
 ** Annihilus, especially in the ''Annihilation'' [[Crisis Crossover]] (not featuring the Four) where he promotes himself to [[Omnicidal Maniac]].
 * [[Ensemble Darkhorse]]/[[Breakout Character]]: Doom has arguably become just as popular, if not more so, than the FF themselves, due in no small part to his [[Memetic Badass]] status amongst fans (which is not that inaccurate, as it turns out).
 ** Also, when the comic first debuted, The Thing very quickly became the most popular character due to his [[The Woobie|stubborn nobility, Woobieness]] and [[Deadpan Snarker]] tendencies.
@@ Line 14: / Line 13: @@
 ** Johnny and Spiderman have some epic bromance moments, including (but not limited to) Peter joking that Johnny got him [[Mister Seahorse|pregnant]] .
 ** To say nothing of Doom's obsession with Reed (there are LOTS of disturbing fanfics about the two) and Ben's sometimes heartwarmingly (and awkwardly) close relationships with both Reed and Johnny.
 * [[Jerkass Woobie]]: Thing started out as one, constantly lamenting about his appearance and picking fights with Johnny at every given opportunity, going so far as to threaten [[Car Fu|throwing a car at him]]. This tension reached the ultimate breaking point when, Johnny, after a massive argument with Ben, temporarily quit the FF, of which Ben couldn't have been more happy. Even when his relationship with Alica began, it was constantly riddled with [[Wangst]] over the fact that Alicia preferred The Thing over Ben.
 * [[Memetic Mutation]]: "It's clobberin' time!"
-* [[Memetic Sex God|Memetic Sex Goddess]]: Susan Richards.
+* [[Memetic Sex God|Memetic Sex Goddess]]: Susan Richards. One of the earliest letters page had a complaint from a fan saying, "You have some nerve making a doll like Sue invisible!"
 ** {{color|red|"FLAME ON!"}}
 * [[Moral Event Horizon]]:
 ** [[Mark Waid]] hated the [[Noble Demon]] characterization of Doom, so when he came aboard the book he did an arc where Doom [[Flayed Alive|flays]] his [[Unlucky Childhood Friend]] alive and [[Squick|makes her skin into a new suit of armor]]. Unsurprisingly, this didn't take, and Doom has since returned to his original characterization, though the general consensus is that it is a very good story and many fans give Doom props for not crossing the [[Moral Event Horizon]] so much as [[Crosses the Line Twice|blasting through it with a rocket launcher.]] After all, thats what great villains do.
-** Many fans also believe that Reed himself crossed during ''[[Civil War (Comic Book)|Civil War]]'', in which he constructed a [[Hellhole Prison]] in a dimension that literally sucks the life out of you, then shipped several of his friends there without trial in the name of "national security." Even post-''[[Dark Reign (Comic Book)|Dark Reign]]'', [[Karma Houdini|he has payed for none of this]].
+** Many fans also believe that Reed himself crossed during ''[[Civil War (Comic Book)|Civil War]]'', in which he constructed a [[Hellhole Prison]] in a dimension that literally sucks the life out of you, then shipped several of his friends there without trial in the name of "national security." Even post-''[[Dark Reign (comics)|Dark Reign]]'', [[Karma Houdini|he has payed for none of this]].
-* [[Never Live It Down]]: Has any writer ever let [[Sub Mariner|Namor]] forget he used to have a crush on Sue?
+* [[Never Live It Down]]: Has any writer ever let [[Sub-Mariner|Namor]] forget he used to have a crush on Sue?
 * [[Tear Jerker]]: {{spoiler|The Last Stand of Johnny Storm. [[Manly Tears|I've just got something in my eye...]]}}
+* [[They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character]]:
-* [[Villain Sue]]: [[Mark Millar]]'s controversial character "the Marquis of Death" may be a straight example or a subversion, depending on how you look at it. He was a [[Diabolus Ex Nihilo]] more powerful than ''Galactus'' who claimed to be [[The Man Behind the Man|the man behind Dr. Doom]], at whom he got pissed for becoming a [[Noble Demon]] rather than the [[Card Carrying Villain]] he wanted him to be. He effortlessly [[Mind Rape|Mind Rapes]] and kills Doom, then declares himself Doom's successor. The subversion comes a few issues later when {{spoiler|Doom comes back, reveals the Marquis didn't kill him properly, and blows him to Hell}}. Even with that considered, it's still generally thought of as a terrible story.
+** [https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Abraxas_(Multiverse) Abraxas]. This cosmic being represents the embodiment of the destruction of the multiverse, and the polar opposite of Eternity. [[Galactus]] was created ''specifically'' to act as a [[Barrier Maiden]] to keep Abraxas in some sort of prison within Eternity itself. By all rights, Abraxas should be one of the most dreaded villains in Marvel, but despite his importance to the overall history of the Marvel Universe and relation to Galactus (who has appeared hundreds of times) Abraxus has appeared in, to date, five issues.
+** [https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Boris_Karela_(Earth-616) Boris Karela,] Doctor Doom's surrogate father, right hand man, confidant, advisor, and possibly only true friend. He's had a grand total of 20 appearances since 1964, fans often asking via the letters' page if he's still alive.<ref>As of 2020, yes.</ref> This is sort of a shame, given his relation with such an important villain, and is very much wasted potential.
+* [[Villain Sue]]: [[Mark Millar]]'s controversial character "the Marquis of Death" may be a straight example or a subversion, depending on how you look at it. He was a [[Diabolus Ex Nihilo]] more powerful than ''Galactus'' who claimed to be [[The Man Behind the Man|the man behind Dr. Doom]], at whom he got pissed for becoming a [[Noble Demon]] rather than the [[Card-Carrying Villain]] he wanted him to be. He effortlessly [[Mind Rape|Mind Rapes]] and kills Doom, then declares himself Doom's successor. The subversion comes a few issues later when {{spoiler|Doom comes back, reveals the Marquis didn't kill him properly, and blows him to Hell}}. Even with that considered, it's still generally thought of as a terrible story.
 * [[The Woobie]]: Ben Grimm, mutated into the monstrous-looking Thing, but also one of the most respected and beloved superheroes in the Marvel universe.
 ** [[Word of God]] has stated that The Thing is the most beloved superhero in the entire Marvel Universe. This makes him analogous to [[Nightwing]] of [[DC Comics]].
-=== The animated series: ===
-* [[Crowning Moment of Funny]]: The ''Frankenstein'' spoof in "The Silver Surfer and the Coming of Galactus" doesn't have much to do with the plot, but it's funny.
-* [[Crowning Music of Awesome]]: The [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgQ5Wa4s_EQ theme] of the season 1 opening.
-** Even better is [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InKh9j77NcE season 2's theme].
-* [[Growing the Beard]]: Season two.
-* [[Recycled Script]]: Both seasons end with Doctor Doom claiming the power of the Silver Surfer. The second season production team actually did this on purpose. They felt that the first season's take on the classic comic story was poorly handled and deserved a better adaptation.
-* [[So Bad Its Good]]: Johnny's Human Torch rap and Ben/The Thing's "Clobberin' Time" rap.
-=== The films: ===
-* [[Alternative Character Interpretation]]: As pointed out in this review [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1IVO1TMK0w\], Doom is actually quite a nice guy in the first film, while the heroes cause damage to the city.
-* [[Critic Proof]]: Audiences loved it, critics hated it. But since audiences loved it, the films were very financially successful.
-** Not exactly. The sequel just barely made it's budget back, and Fox was disappointed.
-* [[Crowning Moment of Awesome]]: The Four's first public appearance, especially Grimm helping pull back the fire truck.
-** Also, taken almost word-for-for from the Warren Ellis comic book:
-{{quote| '''General Hager:''' Let me make it clear for you and your band of freaks here; ''I'm'' the quarterback. You're on ''my'' team. Got it? but I guess you never played football in high school, did you, Richards?<br />
-'''Reed:''' No, you're right. I didn't. I stayed in and studied like a good little nerd. And fifteen years later, [[Badass Boast|I'm one of the greatest minds of the 21st century; I'm engaged to the hottest girl on the planet; and the big jock who played quarterback in high school? He's standing in front of me asking for my help. And I say he's not gonna get a damn thing, unless he does exactly what I tell him, and starts treating me and my friends with a little respect.]]<br />
-''[[Beat Panel|Beat]]''.<br />
-'''General Hager:''' ...Give him what he wants. }}
-** Johnny using all of the team's powers at the same time to beat down Doctor Doom.
-** The chase sequence between Johnny and the Silver Surfer.
-* [[Crowning Moment of Funny]]: "I cannot take orders from the underwear model! That wingnut washed out of NASA for sneaking two Victoria's Secret wannabes into a flight simulator. They crashed it into a wall. A flight ''simulator!!''
-** '''"Don't Do Drugs!"'''
-** The extended cut of the 2005 film has a scene where Johnny is riding the elevator in the Baxter Building up and down, using his powers to raise the temperature so that whenever an attractive woman enters the elevator, she's forced to remove her clothes.
-* [[Crowning Music of Awesome]]: Composer John Ottman's contributions to the two movies, particularly the "Main Title" piece in the 2005 movie and the "Silver Surfer Theme" in ''Rise of the Silver Surfer''
-* [[Ensemble Darkhorse]]: Reviews of the movies were all over the place, but there was one constant: [[Michael Chiklis]] as Ben Grimm/The Thing was fantastic.
-* [[Estrogen Brigade]]: Johnny is always surrounded by women in public. Unsurprising, considering he's played by [[Chris Evans]].
-* [[Hilarious in Hindsight]]: Watching Chris Evans' performance as Johnny is particularly funny with the knowledge that he'll soon be slipping into the costume of another Marvel hero... [[Captain America]]. That's about as far removed from Johnny as you'll get.
-* [[Idiot Ball]]: In Rise... General Hager... It's one thing when the military does not trust superheros. It is ''another thing'' when that same general agrees to work with the guy who is not only ''WORSE'' than what you believe, but also took all of the Fantastic Four to defeat him in the previous film. [[Sarcasm Mode|Nice judgement, Hager.]]
-* [[Nightmare Fuel]]: You get to see Doom's scarred face ''very'' briefly in the sequel. When you see it you'll be glad it's only there for a second.
-** {{spoiler|What's left of General Hager after Doom stole the Surfer's board in Siberia.}}
-* [[So Okay Its Average]]: Both movies got reviews largely in this range.
-* [[Special Effects Failure]]: In the sequel, it's grossly obvious whenever the Silver Surfer is CGI (which he is throughout the majority of the film) or just a man with special makeup effects.
-* [[Squick]]: Reed's texting fingers.
-{{quote|  '''Johnny''': You know, I've always been both impressed, ''and'' disgusted by that.}}
-** Plus the extended close up shot of Reed's hand squeezing beneath Ben's door in the first movie:
-{{quote| '''Johnny''' ...That's gross.}}
-* [[Straw Man Has a Point]]: Unlike in other versions Dooms reason for believing Reed ruined his life is ''far'' more justified, as it was his experiment that ruined his company.
-** Although one can't help wondering how well his company was doing in the first place if one accident (that ended up creating freakin' ''superheroes'') is enough to sink it in a few days.
-* [[The Woobie]]: The Thing. even the most savage of critics loved Michael Chiklis' performance as Marvel's most loveable [[Tragic Monster]]. Jessica Alba said that Micheal Chiklis was so damn good at pulling this off that she just wanted to hug him between takes because he looked so sad.
-** Plus, who didn't want to give Sue a hug after seeing the look on her face when her first wedding is crashed? Well, some of you would probably want to do more than hug her, but still.
-* [[WTH Casting Agency]]: Jessica Alba and Chris Evans as siblings? Really? Not a single person noticed the ethnic trench between them?
-** Unless someone mentions it, one could be forgiven for not knowing Alba is Latina. Especially in these movies where she is blonde. She is only one-third Hispanic in [[Real Life]]. The other parts being European: Spanish, Dutch, French.
-*** But it's worth noting that a ''lot'' of people feel this way about the casting of Alba as Sue Storm in the first place.
-** Doctor Doom in general. Julian McMahon isn't to blame; he's a fine actor and did the best he could with the material. Even giving him powers is somewhat understandable, since it wasn't too likely they'd include the whole supernatural element of the character. The problem is that Doom was written as a [[Corrupt Corporate Executive]] like [[Norman Osborn]] rather than, you know, [[Doctor Doom]].
 {{reflist}}
-[[Category:Fantastic Four]]
+[[Category:{{BASEPAGENAME}}]]
 [[Category:YMMV]]