Talk:Early Teen Hero

As @Ilikecomputers mentioned in the "Almost launchable..." thread, images for early teen heroes tend to be Just a Face and a Caption - "Early Teen" is easy to get, but "Hero" isn't.

This thread is for suggestions for images of actual early-teen heroes.

I don't know whether the first image on this page about A Certain Scientific Railgun is good enough - Railgun is definitely a teen and she's using her metahuman power, but is she heroic enough and does she appear to be young enough? (Just because I know she's supposed to be 13 doesn't mean that it shows in the image.)

While I'd rather find a live-action TV or live-action film example, I couldn't come up with one in a quick think... hence the anime example. If somebody can come up with something better, please suggest it.

Don't worry if there's already a suggestion or two here when you make your suggestion. we can always put other images onto an Image Links subpage.

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The page says fourteen is a popular compromise. I would recommend a image of Shinji of Evangelion, manga or anime. He is recognizable, it's at the ideal age, and looks like an average fourteen year old.

But is he a hero? He prefers to avoid heroics, after all.

Oops, accidently thanked. Rob, he saves the Earth from several aliens. I don't want to enter spoiler territory to discuss if he "saved" the Earth in the original ending in a image thread, but just because he is reluctant in piloting a giant robot doesn't make him less of an hero. Reluctant Hero is a trope.

PS: If you watched it and still are against it, we can use the Rebuild one, who definitely, no questions, it's an hero.

So File:ItsShinji.png?

That one has the same problem that File:Arrietty improvised umbrella.jpg and pZIiPOoNhhzVpBuVEpDK7vbBz4l.jpg have - they show "Early Teen" but don't show "Hero".

Hmmmmm... Maybe this one from this announcement of the Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets musical -- two young teen heroes for the price of one.

Perhaps an image of Coco from Witch Hat Atelier could also work? I refuse to believe a character surrounded by all sorts of magic spellcasting witchy things isn't a hero.

Alternative options, from a quick browse through good ol' Ghibli's catalogue of freely reusable images:

Kiki (Kiki's Delivery Service)

Sheeta or Pazu (Laputa: Castle in the Sky)

If you can only take one image away from this comment, take away the Pazu image. That's probably the option that fits a description of a traditional "hero" the best.

I spent the last three hours reading the first ten chapters and Coco more than qualifies, but what I'm not understanding is why your comment suggests that you actually didn't read the manga. If that is true, I would advise you to not try to post examples you never read/played/watched, because obviously if you do that you may miss crucial information about the character, the plot, everything, because often synopsis are misleading.

If you head over to Witch Hat Atelier (manga), you'll see a name called "Ilikecomputers" pop up over and over again in the edit history. I wonder who that could be...

Sarcastic remarks aside, I mus apologise for the poor wording of that sentence.

I mentioned this to Rob and Labster last night, offline -- how about the Power Pack from Marvel comics? Julie and Alex, at least, qualified during the 2005 reboot version. Our image for them doesn't, I suspect -- they all look too young. It does get the "hero" side across, though.

I would advise you to not try to post examples you never read/played/watched, because obviously if you do that you may miss crucial information about the character, the plot, everything, because often synopsis are misleading.

On the contrary, doing this is perfect for All The Tropes.

If you need to know the source material in order to figure out how the trope applies to an image, then the image is Just a Face and a Caption -- and it's wiki policy to replace those images.

When the trope shows through even though the viewer knows nothing about the character, then it's a successful image.

Well, then let's pick the Pazu image. He is wielding a shotgun, I never watched that movie, and he looks his age. Sounds like a good example then.

Okay, that's two votes for Pazu - HLIAA14YOG and me. Anyone else have a preference?

Oh, wait, how about a still of the Fat Kid Horace from Monster Squad?

I don't have any suggestions myself, but if you had to limit me to those already present, I'd vote for the Pazu one.

So far, Pazu is the only one with more than one vote. Let's go with him for now.

This has a good description and two dozen examples (counting all of Studio Ghibli's works as one example), and it easily passes a grammar test.

If it had an image (maybe from one of Disney's live-action shows, which I suspect should also be added as examples?) and one more category in addition to "Youngsters", I'd recommend launching the trope.

Added some categories, made some corrections. We've got a wide variety of choices for an image -- pick a Ghibli character, for instance.

pick a Ghibli character, for instance

Unless someone is willing to sort through all my uploads at Category:Studio Ghibli, this could very much land us in All The Tropes:Just a Face and a Caption territory. The best image from that category, I think, is File:Arrietty improvised umbrella.jpg, which says a bit about "early teen" but not a lot about "hero", despite the character in question matching both of those descriptions. You need to find an image which communicates young age of the character, and the hero status of the character at the same time, without the usage of words, which is why I never included an image in my original proposal.

On the other hand, why not launch the page? Especially since the guy who proposed this trope is the very same guy writing this sentence.

Unless someone is willing to sort through all my uploads at Category:Studio Ghibli, this could very much land us in All The Tropes:Just a Face and a Caption territory.

Yeah, that's the big problem. I just did a DuckDuckGo search for images from Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone -- they had the same 'a bit about "early teen" but not a lot about "hero"' issue.

On the other hand, why not launch the page?

We can always add an image later.

Move to launch.

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Seconding.

Thirding

Voting to launch

Looks like we're good to launch. Launching.

And done. Finally. (I couldn't just ignore all those "Characters" subpages that are in such bad shape...)

This is a new thread dedicated for voting to renaming this trope to "Early Teen Hero". Please do not suggest any other trope names here. If you have another name in mind, vote no on this proposal.

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I say yes, but it should be a capitalized T right?

Concur with Horny on this.

That works for me.

Support.

Voting yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Sure.

I agree.

That's eleven votes for, no votes against, over four days. I'd say that counts as a proper consensus. Renaming the page.

EDIT: And done.

The current title is pretty bad. There's easy false reads (Older Alter Ego), it's not searchable, and (IMO) it just doesn't sound eloquent.

I propose "Early Adolescent Hero" or "Early Adolescence Hero". Adolescent/Adolescence is a bit more multi-definitional than I'd like (some start 10, some start 12) though.

My old proposal "Kiddo Teen Hero" can also work

The "multi-definational" aspect doesn't matter much. The core idea is that the age range is meant to appeal both to adults and kids, so I set the rough number of 12 - 15, but I also made it clear that a work can imply someone is in this range. As for the "appeal" bit, I think you can stretch it out a bit, maybe argue 16 and 11 year olds can be in there. I'm still thinking of the best way to approach this trope, so it might be best to temporarily suspend any title discussions while this is going on.

"Tweenage" is a possible alternative. "Middle-Aged" is currently defined as roughly age 40 to 60, and sometimes as 45 to 64.

Man, the good names are really flying in.

I'll leave this running for another three days or so. If there isn't a better name by then, I'll go with "Tweenage Hero".

Seconding "Tweenage Hero"

"Tweenage" is apparently a "real" word and not the right age range.

Isn't the greek word "hebe" used for this age-range? Hebe Hero would be also alliterative.

A quick visit to to define "Hebe" yields The goddess of youth, and a daughter of Zeus and Hera. Her Roman counterpart is Juventas, which looks promising. A visit to , however, yields (slang, derogatory, offensive) Alternative form of Hebe (“a Jew”). The latter only applies to the uncapitalised version.

That is some points against the title, but I do want to point out that the Mooks page state that the term "Mook", which is one of those tropes so legendary you can't go long without hearing about it, is a "mostly obsolete racial slur against Italians".

I'm reverting to my original proposal of "Kiddo Teen Hero".

Alternatively "Essence of Adolescence" might work, but we're starting to sacrifice clarity for wit.

I'm calling a formal vote between "Kiddo Teen Hero" and "Essence of Adolescence" as the title of this trope. We will rename to whatever name gets the most votes. I'm going with "Essence of Adolescence".

Pinging editors I know, although anyone can comment.

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Voting for Essence of Adolescence

Don't think either is great, but Essence of Adolescence is absolutely the better of the two.

Looking at the original title, it sounds contradictive; Middle-Aged implies 35-55. That said, I'd go for "Essence of Adolescence" just because it sounds catchy, but I think "Heroic Teen" is simpler.

Or "Heroic Young Teen" since we're excluding 16-19

"Heroic" doesn't exactly work since it implies heroic traits rather than a character being the actual hero. If we switch to "Young Teen Hero", we can fix it, but in my opinion we are getting close to Word Salad Title territory, making the title harder to remember (thus removing aspects of the "concise" point). Even though it's better for clarity, my vote as "Essence of Adolescence" remains unchanged.

Essence of Adolescence seems better to me.

Not casting a vote, just pointing out that the term "Essence of Adolescence" has been used in Real Life since 2014 with a meaning different from this trope.

And I don't understand just what it is about the phrase that connects it to the idea of a tween-to-post-tween protagonist. From the first it's struck me as basically a random phrase offered because it was somewhere within the same tri-state region as the actual topic of the page.

Re-reading the trope description, I see that we're looking for a short phrase to describe a young-teen hero.

Why not use "Young-Teen Hero"?

Ah, after all the different titles, perhaps the simplest is the best. Honestly, I don't mind "Young-Teen Hero" that much, with the hyphen giving the name some structure and avoiding Word Salad Title territory.

Sorry if I'm a bit late to this, but how about "Early-Teen Hero"?

I swear, every time a new title comes in I want to change to it.

Now "Early-Teen Hero" is my favourite proposal so far.

Early-Teen Hero works.

Not having been available to respond to this earlier seems to have been a blessing in disguise, 'cause Early-Teen Hero looks the best to me.

We have a lot of proposed names here.

With my Mod hat on, I'm requesting a new thread that proposes using only one of the names, where people can vote a clear "yes" or "no".

Though I'm not full hundred percent inside the idea of the trope(I don't really think most writers make a distinction unless they explicitly want to make a story about puberty happening), I found "Early Teen Hero" to be an adequate name for it.

Thoughts on this for page quote?

You're not as immature as a child, but you haven't lost the glow of youth. I think that makes [14] the perfect age. —Astrid Zexis, Atelier Meruru

Covers why this trope is used (even if slightly out of context).

Me likey! Thank you!

As the guy who proposed the trope, I would do the replacement right now, but I'm not sure if I still need community consensus for this.

Pinging everyone for a community consensus to replace the quote, feel free to tag along any other editors you know.

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I like. But if we replace the current quote, let's move it to a Quotes subpage.

Okay to replace the quote!

Seems solid to me.

Replacement done.