Homestuck/WMG/Jossed Trolls

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< Homestuck‎ | WMG


There are thirteen trolls, each corresponding to a constellation.

Fits the theme number, and gives them the catchy title of the astrologists.

  • Jade has said there are twelve.
    • Not just any old constellations, evidence suggests that they correspond to the Western Zodiac
      • And then there's #13, Serpentarius, which is kind of weird and not counted, but would fit with the 413 motif. Plus, she just * counted* twelve - no indication there couldn't be another.
        • Alternatively, Ophiuchus (formerly Serpentarius) is represented by the protagonists. Indeed, at least three of the kids birthdays fall under Ophiuchus, and there is some reason to think John's birthday is not actually April the 13th.
        • 12 would also be consistent with the ACTG naming scheme that has been observed for the characters' usernames; there are a total of 16 possible combinations, four for the protagonists and 12 for the trolls.
          • John doesn't match up with that anymore (GT replaced by EB). So the troll's chumhandle could be GT. Or UU.
        • This troper thinks the white text is a good candidate for Ophiuchus/Serpentarius.
          • New troper is thinking Gamzee is Ophiuchus (or his apparent split persona) as the new traits are matching up.
            • Karkat or his ancestor seems a good candidate for Ophiuchus troll. It's been established that the trolls' symbols correspond to their position in society - if people can't tell his blood color from his symbol, Karkat must be wearing a fake (or a symbol ordinarily worn by a caste between Gemini and Leo rolls, hence his sorting in chumrolls despite his grey text.)
  • While it doesn't seem likely that there's additional Trollslum accounts, there's a theory parading around the forums that twinArmageddons (the chumHandle representing Gemini) might be shared between two people. Should the user of that account make a canon appearance in the comic, This Troper is hoping they're a pair of like-minded Creepy Twins who share a keyboard!
    • Jossed. Sollux Captor is indeed just one troll and only has a twin in his dream form.
  • The Ophiuchus troll, if she exists, is the UU whose theme is "The Thirteenth Hour" on the Alternia album. While the sixteen known characters' chumhandles come from DNA, U represents uracil in genetics, which is a part of RNA. Given the formula of double letters belonging to girls (Jade, Rose, Feferi, Aradia), UU would be female.
    • Actually there's a song called 'Umbra Ultimatum'. If this is true this would fit as both a theme and a chum handle.
  • For instance the main loop here will terminate on the death of the universe, labeled U okay something tells me they wont be a good thing if this theory turns out to be true.... On the same page, Karket also codes the virus to execute when he dies. Maybe this is means that UU is actually a reincarnation to execute itself when he dies, or else another 'life'. Assuming this being so, there could be a window for Karkat to reach god tier, if there is a way to do so from the veil(dream bubbles, maybe?)

Don't rule it out as impossible just yet; correct me if i'm wrong but i dont remember it ever being explained how aradia became a zombie/ghost sort of deal after she died. Maybe she had a virus written for her too? Sollux is a programmer and it is implied that they were something of an item when she was killed. Besides Sollux is a psionic, we can't rule out the possibility that he knew what vriska would do and took measures to ensure aradia was at least somewhat okay afterwards.

All of the above are Jossed. As of current canon, there are only two possibilities for a 13th Troll, either one in the future along the lines of J, or the troll Empress.

  • pipefan413 survived Earth's reckoning. There is no reason why the troll's session could't get much the same glitch, or if it even is a glitch.
    • That was fedorafreak. pipefan is Dad (and later Nannasprite).

This may be yet proven true however, as what appears to be an unknown troll is shown observing the post-scratch session as of Act 6. To add further credence to the theory of he/she being the one which represents Orphiuchus, his/her console has what appears to be a Rod of Asclepius engraved on top, Asclepius being the Greek deity which Orphiuchus represents

  • Jossed. There are at least 17 trolls introduced thus far and still relevant to the plot. UU and her brother are also unrelated to the Troll Session we know, which was the spirit of the WMG. Betty Crocker is the Troll Empress, and what seem to be alternate versions of the Trolls (ancestors or descendants) have been appearing in dream bubbles.

Gamzee will revert back to his old self.

....because from the way Kanaya kicked him over the edge of that cliff in his last appearance, it seems very likely that he'll end up landing on his head. When this happens, he'll suffer brain damage as a result and he'll end up like the way he was before. This could be a reason why he's seen later on looking serenely at his screen with a dazed look on his face.

  • Unless Karkat is weeping with joy because Gamzee is giving him his own Warhammer of Zillyhoo I don't think that's going to happen... then again, it's quite possible he is!
  • Jossed. Gamzee shows up fully intending continue his killing spree, but Karkat moirails him into submission.

Kanaya will become an imperial mother grub

This is the reason why the jade bloods are held in such esteem and why a mother grub is willing to give up brooding for them. It is because they are the only ones capable of producing mother grubs, drones, and trolls. However this will in addition to mutating her form cause her intelligence to become roughly the level of her lusus. This event will fill Vriska with regrets.

  • Most likely Jossed. Dead people don't reproduce.
  • Still up for grabs! They can if they're undead and able operate an ectobiology lab!]]
    • Jossed, Lusi aren't trolls, they're seperate species and Kanaya couldn't mutate into a mother grub. The Matriorb was the egg of an imperial mother grub, Kanaya was going to hatch it.

Various UU Troll Theories

  • UU is somehow connected to THE GRAND HIGHBLOOD. Look at those horns. Sure, slightly more wavy, BUT LOOK AT DEM CURVES http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006465
  • UU is the Troll Empress. Andrew said it himself that out of the trolls that would most likely survive the Vast Glub, Feferi and the Troll Empress would on account of their blood colour. And since there are no other trolls left besides the 12 we already know....
    • Jossed because the Empress is Feferi's ancestor and therefore shares the Pisces sign with her.
  • UU stands for "umbralUltimatum". That track in Volume 6? A hint to the trolltag UU would use.
    • It should be mentioned that "Umbral Ultimatum" is a remix of (among other things) "Unbreakable Union", which was the music played for Jade's strife with Bec. So it's possible the UU troll is connected to Jade or Bec in some fashion; and would likely be Jade's (adopted) grandson.
  • UU would look a lot like Rose, as Kanaya had envisioned her to be. The horns on her head look a lot like snake fangs.
    • Too similar to Feferi... perhaps if one horn was like a fang and the other had two small points at the end, like the forked tongue of a reptile?
    • Jossed. Her horns look like corkscrews (or at least very wavy), like the snakes on the rod of Asclepsius.
  • If Kanaya doesn't find a way to restore the matriorb, UU will have a convenient way of restoring the Troll race.
  • UU is Jade's Grandson. Unless his parents were double first cousins, it's a bit out there to assume he's completely human, and it's been confirmed that trolls and humans can have kids via ectobiology.
    • Unless UU is a reincarnation of Karkat, set to appear after her dies, like in the virus he programs shortly after we meet him (see above). If it appears as a baby, perhaps Jade or her kids adopt it. It would still be a troll...
    • Jossed. Jade's Grandson is Jake English.
  • UU is Troll Rose (since UU can be a replacement for TT). Much like Ophiuchus/Serpentarius himself, she is acknowledged by a minority (i.e. Kanaya) but not part of the official group of trolls; to the majority (the other eleven), she doesn't even exist.
  • UU was a regular troll who was outside of the group and died within the meteors. Because sometimes, the simplest answer is the best one.
  • Jossed by UU's actual introduction. She is not any of these things. See separate WMGs for speculation on her identity.


Dave has set the wheels in motion for Gamzee to renounce his Juggalo lifestyle.

Well, Dave did say that "[Gamzee will] finally figure out who [he is] and why [he worships] all this ridiculous clown bullshit", and the music video he sent Gamzee clearly pissed him off. Now, it's only a matter of time before he goes renegade from his old beliefs.

    • Jossed. Gamzee retains his beliefs even after going insane.

Ideas for Gamzee's and Eridan's titles and Eridan's planet.

Because they're not confirmed yet and I feel like it.

Gamzee Title Ideas:

Eridan Title Ideas:

  • Guard of Sound
  • Prince of Flame
    • Confirmed as Prince of Hope
      • Except that all he does with the role is destroy hope.
        • It was recently revealed that the Prince is a destructive class. "Prince of Hope" can translate to "Destroyer of Hope" or "One Who Destroys Using Hope".

Eridan Planet Ideas:

  • Land of Islands and Vibration
  • Land of Depths and Magma
    • Confirmed as Land of Wrath and Angels.

Terezi knows Vriska's plans, and plans to turn it around so she pays for good.

Terezi has Dave amass all that money so Dave can be Terezi's weapon against Vriska's John. Indirectly, she also tricked John to fight his Denizen so that alpha timeline John would possess his jetpack and indirectly find Rose, then her Meow journal, which leads to Bec's creation. In other words, at first glance, it looks like Vriska is in control when Terezi is assisting Vriska every step of way, to set her up for a big fall.

  • It wouldn't be too surprising if Vriska had told Terezi herself; after all, she did brag to Terezi about her "Little Advantage" with disastrous results and shows no sign of having learned her lesson.
    • Terezi has shown no sign that she knows anything about Vriska's creation of Bec Noir. Currently in canon, the only person who does know is Tavros and he apparently hasn't told anyone yet.

Others know of Vriska's plans, and play along knowing she dies for her gamble for glory.

Chances are Dave(time-traveling into the future, and discovering this); Rose (Communing with Horror Terrors), Sollux (Double vision into Kids' session), Aradia (Dead, and knowing the future), and Feferi (Dream-talking with Horror-Terrors) know of her plans, and play along to make Vriska pay in the end because they've seen or know about the future, and decide not to fight fate so Vriska can pay.

  • Maybe Sollux and Aradia but none of the other characters are that cutthroat. Even if Vriska is a HUGE BITCH.
    • None of the trolls are that cutthroat, not even Aradia. Also Vriska played all of them far more than they played her.

Vriska will be killed or injured with a newspaper.

You don't have to be all that unlucky to get whacked around with a newspaper. It's sort of a gray area.

  • Possible that this has been further foreshadowed in a recent update, which showed that Jade has at some point acquired the Paperkind specibus, and has demonstrated that she can use it to whack people around with newspapers.
  • Jossed. In two different timelines, one doomed, one not.

The members of one of the troll teams will be the paradox-clone parents of the members of the other.

Karkat has to get the baby-making DNA from somewhere, after all.

Relatedly, if Equius and Aradia are one of the parent pairs he's going to be so into it when he finds out, not because he cares about having a kid but because they have genetic children out there and she's not a queen. It's so depraved.

  • Now this troper is imagining Tavros and Gamzee calling Aradia and Equius 'mom and dad'. Would that be funny or creepy?
    • Jossed, they're all paradox clones of themselves.

Feferi still has a chance of going god tier.

Since Aradia's 'quest bed' actually existed in the heart of Derse, chances are good that her Dream-Self's quest bed is located in the furthest ring due to her strong connection with the horrorterrors via her surrogate mother. Which would further explain why all the trolls die once and are otherwise since Feferi IS the Witch of Life and being god tier would undoubtedly give her the power to outright resurrect the dead, considering how she was able to awaken Sollux' Dream self before doing much else in Sgrub. Though her chance is fairly diminished due to the fact that she's not one of the four 'main' roles. (of Breath, of Light, of Time, of Space)

  • Feferi's awakening Sollux's dreamself had nothing to do with her title. She and all the other troll girls are princesses of the moons of Prospit and Derse, just as all the troll boys are princes of same.
    • Likewise if she was going to awaken, she already would have.

On troll genetics:

In troll genetics, the terms "dominant" and "recessive" refer not to how the genetic material expresses itself once combined, but to how much of the material survives long enough to combine in the first place. There appears to be a significant gap in time between the genetic material being produced and the actual fertilization taking place, at least some of which time is spent with the material sitting in open buckets.

    • More like Andrew studied the Kojima school of genetics. Moreover the problem with that is that any "recessive" genes would be dead or faded by that time.

Aradia will take vengeance for Tavros.

Upon her ascension, she conveniently gained not only the emotions required to once again fully care of one of her best friends from back when she was alive, the emotions required to be distressed of his death, and desire to take vengeance for him just like she did before - but also the sufficient powers to stand up against the murderer, Vriska Serket.

    • Aradia isn't planning anything of the sort, besides she knows Tavros isn't "dead" per se.

Vriska will be the one to kill Jack Noir

She's going to steal the kill by delivering the finishing blow. Somehow, this will cause all the glory to fall to her.

  • That was her whole freakin' plan. Become the instigator of Jack's power, and then kill him. But don't worry - John is her backup plan, who she has claimed will be even more powerful than her.
    • Terezi implies Vriska isn't strong enough, Future Dave outright states John isn't strong enough.
    • Doc Scratch implied that she may be strong enough and wouldn't bet against her.
      • But she is killed by Terezi before she has the chance to.

The white substance on Gamzee's face and inside Eridan's wand is the blood of Doc Scratch or Lord English.

Knowing how blood is important in Troll society, either Scratch or English have allowed their blood to be found by Gamzee so he uses it as his facepaint and by Kanaya so she can create the White Wand to help manipulate Eridan as a tool for the Felt.

The reason Gamzee is the most important one in Homestuck is due to being English/Scratch's tool against his knowledge, using his Sgrub powers to manipulate the other Trolls toward helping the Kids create the Scratch and be one step closer to bring Lord English into the Kids' session. This idea comes from seeing Gamzee in the background as Vriska put John to sleep, during one part of Bec Noir's creation; he's doing something during that scene to use Vriska...what, though, I do not know.

  • Gamzee may well be Lord English himself.
    • He got blood from A) a man on the moon who's part cueball and puppet and cannot be harmed or B) a time travelling demon from the future. Yeah that's possible.

As for Eridan, he is currently being used to blind Sollux (so as a Code Cracker, he cannot see the code of Lord English and figure his weakness,) AND kill Feferi, due to how the Horror Terrors fear the Green Sun and the Felt, and use her to counter the Felt's encroachment.

    • The Felt work for the Horrorterrors, English is one of them. Moreover, Sollux had plenty of time to see the code, sweeps of it. The wand was broken by Kanaya, it wasn't anything all that special.

Feferi anticipated her death and everything she's being doing has been to take full advantage of that.

Being close to Sollux, she more than likely felt there was some merit to the thought that all the trolls were going to die at some point. With this knowledge, she spent the time getting the gods to produce Dream Bubbles.

  • Anticipated her dream death, yes. Her real death, nope.

Feferi keeping her personality after becoming a ghost after her death is linked to her role.

Because would you really expect someone with the title of Witch of Life to lose the true essence of life?

  • Given recent Aradia and Tavros developments in the dreambubbles, that may be normal anyway.
    • Yeah based on Tavros, calling this Jossed.

Feferi's death truly is only the beginning.

Likely, Feferi reached her peak and never found a quest bed because like Aradia she had a special case. That is, to learn what it really means to be alive, and what better way to learn to appreciate something than when you no longer have it. Naturally, this would mean that instead of her quest bed being in her land, it's actually within the furthest ring and all she has to do is find it. Of course, since the Furthest Ring is an eldritch location, she would only be able to locate it under certain conditions related to her role.

  • Yeah, the whole Witch of Life, since it wasn't apparently crucial to bringing back Tavros, is looking like a Chekhov's BFG.
    • She's dead and can't leave dream bubbles presumably. Even if her bed was there, she has no way of getting to it.
      • Actually, death is very very cheap in Homestuck, (possibly even moreso than in problem sleuth, at least in some ways, but less so in others...)...Sollux could leave his dream bubble simply because he didn't know he wasn't supposed to leave...so, there may be absolutely nothing keeping them there other than the mere fact that they don't know that they CAN leave...
        • Arguably jossed. There are indications that Sollux could only leave his Dream Bubble because of the bifurcation of his dream self into two "half dream selves." Since only one is dead, but the other was taken with it to the dream bubble, his dream self can leave the bubble and is later referred to by Karkat as a "BULLSHIT "HALF GHOST" OR WHATEVER."
          • Plausible, maybe? Roxy was able to waltz right into one of the dream bubbles. It's unclear is that has to do with her being alive, or her power, or something else, so maybe it's not just Sollux's duality thing.
          • Alive players have always been able to physically enter dreambubbles. Aradia and Rose have also demonstrated this capability.

Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat.

His theme song in Kanaya: Return to the core is a chiptunes remix of Catchyegrabber, the tune sung by Plumbthroat on the Squiddles album. If the Horrorterrors are Squiddles, then Eridan will have to try to kill them.

  • Sure is hard to murder when you're dead.
    • Unless the afterlife is right next to the intended victims... If anything, his death may make this more likely. He doesn't accept his death, and tries to kill the Horrorterrors from the dream bubbles. While he may be unable to exit the bubbles, he's good with long-range weapons.
  • Ignore the silent letter and you have Plumthroat. Eridan's blood is plum-colored. Probably unimportant since he died from chainsaw bisection at the waist, rather than, say, how Gamzee killed Equius, which certainly would have left him with a plum throat.

The slaughter of the trolls is leading up to a Bad Future, like with Alternate Future Dave

God-Tier Aradia will go back in time and make it aaaaall better. I hope.

  • It's also possible that Karkat uses Aradia's time travel device to go back and try to fix things. If only because having him meet his own past/future self in person would be hilarious.
  • I so very much hope so. Would explain why Future-Karkat and Future-Terezi don't seem to be all that traumatised. Unless -they- came from a Bad Future
    • Andrew has Jossed this. I don't have a link unfortunately. Besides, Sollux himself said all the trolls were going to die. We simply assumed it meant dream selves.


The fate of the Trolls

With the deaths of Tavros, Feferi and Kanaya, it's not hard to see that the troll bodycount has just begun, and that these initial deaths will be the cause of others. How? Well:

  • Terezi will attempt to kill Vriska in order to make her pay for killing Tavros. She will either succeed through superior skill (similar to the first circle of revenge they participated in) and then die shortly afterwards from injuries sustained in the battle, or fail and die followed by Vriska being killed by the newly-ressurected and very pissed (evenmoreso because [Tavros and Terezi are dead) God-Tier Aradia.
    • Terezi is actually confirmed to be alive one hour after the mysterious countdown timer goes to zero. Unless Hussie decides to retcon things. Or unless she's being...impersonated.
      • Andrew has hinted he might retcon this
      • She survives the Troll Session.
  • If Feferi's death is any indication, Eridan will track down Nepeta and try to kill her for rejecting him. I say try because Equius will step in and defend her from Eridan, dying as a result. Nepeta will finally snap and kill Eridan in a beserker rage, and when the rage subsides she will be traumatized by the experience. Because we all know how much fun breaking the Cutie is.
    • Alternately, she runs into Gamzee with a similar result, especially given the scratches on Gamzee's face. Nepeta manages to fend off Gamzee, which explains why he's only painting with his blood, while Nepeta dies from internal bleeding.
      • Both Jossed, in that Gamzee killed Equius and scratched himself with Nepeta's claws before presumably killing her, admittedly via blunt force trauma.
  • Aradia and Sollux will reunite and, having been informed of whatever plan will be formed to deal with Jack Noir, will resolve to sacrifice themselves to hold Jack at bay and allow the plan to be completed. While they're gone, Gamzee will reveal himself as the mastermind behind everything and kill Karkat; due to the Unspoken Plan Guarantee hinted at here, this will happen shortly before the Kids attempt to create the Scratch. Nepeta, harboring the red feelings for Karkat that were mentioned here, will attempt to kill Gamzee and die as a result. Elsewhere, Sollux and Aradia are killed by Jack Noir.
    • For the same reasons as Terezi, Karkat is also alive one hour after the countdown ends.
      • This Page shows a memory of one of the trolls in a dream bubble, and clearly shows Karkat and Terezi at the very least quite seriously injured, most likely dead. It seems to be a version of Aradia's memory.
      • Sollux is MIA, Karkat is probably dead, and Aradia is waiting from someone else and not reuniting with anyone.
        • Semi-confirmed, though not in the manner described. Sollux and Aradia are waiting at the Green Sun to help slow down Jack Noir.
  • This page indicates the blood colours of all the trolls who were/will be killed or maimed and subsequently found by Gamzee to write this specific rambling note in their blood. This includes the blood colours of Feferi, Terezi, Sollux, Nepeta, Kanaya, Eridan, Tavros and Equius.
    • It is mentioned in this arc in the dream bubbles that this particular page of rambling honks written by Gamzee on a book about death are situated a doomed timeline, should never have happened and was repaired by at least one version of Aradia. What this means for the future of the trolls, we can only speculate.

Alternative fate of the trolls

  • Nepeta will die in a horribly ironic manner; her Lusus's namesake Juan Ponce de Leon, died upon being shot with a poisoned arrow...and Nepeta's Trollian handle is arsenicCatnip. So Nepeta will die much like Grandpa Harley; Equius will finally fire a bow at Bec Noir, only for him to redirect it right into Nepeta. This will cause Equius to flip the fuck out, and unless someone slaps him out of it (like Aradia in yet more call backs), he's probably going to let Noir stab him to death. However, he's going to die regardless.
    • Pounce De Leon died from being crushed in a cave-in.
      • Jossed, clubbed to death by Gamzee
  • Eridan will also be stabbed by Noir. Rewarded as a Traitor Deserves
    • Chainsawed by Kanaya
  • Gamzee will undergo Dying as Yourself. It will be a Heroic Sacrifice though, as it will allow some of the other trolls to escape to the kids dimension. Unfortunately, they still won't live for much longer.
    • Gamzee is still completely insane and pretty much unstoppable.
  • Sollux is pretty much doomed. He will probably encounter Terezi and Aradia first, and it's possible he'll die in front of Aradia in another Call Back.
    • Yep, d00m c0nfirmed.
      • MIA, possibly dead.
    • Update, he's been found. And still alive.
      • Not anymore, though no one caused it but himself.
  • Aradia's fate is a bit up in the air, as while she did die already, it was before Sollux made his prediction about the trolls dying. So it's possible she could run out of time again.
    • Immmortal and God tiered. She stopped Jack, if anyone has a chance to survive, it's her.
  • Simlarly, Vriska's fate is up in the air because she already died in the game itself. This leads to the possibility that she may be the only surviving troll. On the other hand, Sollux never said that only he would die twice. There is also some other foreshadowing.
    • Doc Scratch says that if he was a gambling man he wouldn't bet on Vriska living to see the "silver lining" (although as another point for Vriska's survival, he never outright says she's going to die).
    • Then there's the odd dream sequence with Wayward Vagabond where Vriska appears as a bug: The sequence begins with a reference to an earlier scene with Jade that ended with the line "You eat a bug and you don't even care." Note that Vriska fed trolls to her spider-Lusus.
    • Finally there's Terezi's statement that luck dosen't actually matter.
    • In conclusion, this troper thinks that Vriska will have a Fate Worse Than Death, or a Karmic Death as she is eaten alive. For more irony, it will be when she actually does manage to kill Jack Noir.
      • Adding that Vriska might be the last to die. Why? The 8-ball is the last to be pocketed!
      • Stabbed in the chest.
  • Finally we have Karkat and Terezi. They will survive past the countdown, and probably enter the kids dimension. Karkat, or at least his weapon, will play a role in defeating John's denizen Typheus- this is because Zeus fought Typehus with a sickle in Greek Mythology. However, they are still probably going to die; Karkat and Terezi might be Together in Death, or Terezi will die in Karkat's arms, letting Karkat to deliver a final speech to John before he dies, telling him that he can save all exsistence from certain destruction.
    • Again, Karkat is probably already dead.
      • They both survive.
  • The kids will then somehow save the troll race from extinction. They might recreate Alternia at the end of their session, playing the role the trolls once played for the kids, or they simply will just use alchemy and ectobiology. Or they'll do both.
    • Jossed, the kid's session is barren.
  • It is entirely possible that the kids will come across the afterlife at one point, as foreshadowed by Dream Jade and Feferi. If the afterlife is as easy to escape from as Problem Sleuth was, the trolls might be back. But then they might not.
    • Even if they are, it isn't likely because the Kids are focusing on hard resetting their session.
      • Actually, its even easier, after all, Sollux could leave simply because he didn't know he wasn't supposed to...
      • Sollux is an exception.


Terezi has inadvertently framed herself for Tavros' murder.

Think about it. She just got her favorite chalk all over the body and murder weapon and has his blood all over one of her scalemates and a piece of chalk. If somebody else finds them, who knows how they will react?

  • Everyone's dead or doesn't care.

Tavros' murder was what threw Gamzee off the deep end.

While he was going through his sopor slime withdrawl, he started looking around for more, and found the bloody corpse of his best bro impaled with his own weapon. That's got to mess him up somehow. Also, Terezi heard Sober!Gamzee's trademark "HONK honk"s while she was searching the crime scene, so he probably already knows about the murder.

    • Actually, Gamzee's honks were around even earlier: Lower right hand corner of this page.
      • Which, as you can tell by the scene, still occurs after Tavros' death.
      • The OP seems to be forgetting where Tavros was between being murdered and Terezi finding the body, ie falling through open air. Gamzee couldn't have found the body before going insane because Terezi was the first to find him when Tavros landed next to her and the honking was heard while she inspected it. Also Gamzee couldn't have found it earlier and just tossed the corpse off another ledge, as the corpse is still dripping blood and his leg breaks in two from the impact.
      • But just because Gamzee hasn't been seen anywhere near Tavros doesn't mean he hasn't seen Tavros. He could have been standing on another ledge, and seen Tavros' free fall. The two events-- Tavros' death and Gamzee going insane-- are suspiciously close together.
        • Jossed. Seen here, Dave showing him the MIRACLES music video was what threw him off of the deep end.

Karkat's Sburb Title will be important again

Kanaya is apparently now a rainbow-drinker, i.e. a bloodsucker. And Karkat is the Knight of Blood. Either he's due to become her protector, or her slayer.

  • Alternatively, he's getting stronger the more dead people there are.
  • Or he's going to become a more literal Blood Knight.
  • He's going to do the Bloody Thing. He even has Spades Slick on a console to bug him into it.
    • His title was never unimportant. But the specifics about this are jossed.

In parallel with how the kids found out that there were hidden sides to their guardians, the trolls will find much the same for their Famous Ancestors.

The ones that cared about them anyway. For example, Vriska may find that Mindfang was an Unreliable Narrator and wasn't as ruthless or cruel as she seemed to be, or that she had deep feelings of remorse for her actions. This will cause her to Flip The Fuck Out

Alternatively, they all worked for Lord English.

  • In addition Mindfang made her journal like a trashy romance novel so that anyone who wanted to find her treasure would have to wade through pages and pages of the stuff.
    • Most trolls don't care, and Vriska at least would probably find it a relief if Mindfang wasn't a total bitch.
  • We've already learned that there's a hidden side to the ancestors, though none of the trolls (except possibly Aradia) have yet.

Nepeta will go on a Roaring Rampage of Revenge

The cut marks you see all over Gamzee's face would be made by her out of revenge for Equius' death.

  • Nope. While the marks are made by Nepeta's weapon, Gamzee did it to himself after catching Nepeta's arm in midair.

Nepeta is perfectly OK.

After all, we didn't see anything onscreen happen to her. All we know is Gamzee survived their encounter, and managed to make her bleed.

  • Well, bleeding moderately-to-heavily (and having a broken wrist) is not perfectly okay... but it's a lot better than the alternative.
  • If Nepeta lives, then there will be three alive trolls from the blue team (8r8k). Since Tavros is dead, there are five trolls that are alive (alive enough to consciously capable of manipulating the physical plane) on the red team (H 34 DS). Also, she can't be dead because DEAD. hasn't been written on a panel with her.
    • She's unmoving and there's a huge pool of blood. Terezi walked right past her and she was still there. Totally alive.
      • Her body being separated from her head pretty much seals the deal.
        • She is cat based, logically, she should have nine lives...or at least due to rule of funny...

Vriska Will Do Something Inhibiting Out Of Jealousy Of Rose And Kanaya

Whether or not Rose and Kanaya actually have feelings for each other, the other trolls seem to think so. A most likely outcome of this is that she will somehow continue to make everyone's lives worse by tampering with Rose's destruction of the Green Sun.

  • Vriska doesn't even know about Rose's relationship with Kanaya. Nor do most of the other trolls, aside from Karkat. I don't know where you're getting this "the other trolls are shipping it" outside of possibly Nepeta, but she ships EVERYTHING.

Orphaner Dualscar is Skipper Plumbthroat

Similar to the above "Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat", but Eridan's dead now. HOWEVER, whatever the SUPREME HIGHBLOOD actually did to Orphaner sent him to the Furthest Ring... where in the finest tradition of crazed trolls everywhere, he began to take them down through sheer DETERMINATION!

  • Hard to murder when you're dead and also an unimportant minor character.

Due to Ectobiology Shenanigans, there are two Karkats

The implications that Karkat's blood color probably doesn't occur naturally in trolls, along with Kanaya's statement that, if a paradox clone is mutated, it is not a true paradox clone and is not sent back in time, it is possible that the current Karkat is a mutant clone, which would mean that somewhere there is another Karkat with a different blood color. Since he the trolls' ectobiologist, Karkat would have likely done this himself, but have a number of reasons for ensuring either that he had the same blood color to distinguish himself from the others, or ensuring that he would have a more normal blood color without realizing that he would still stay the same.

  • Probably Jossed: by all appearances the Signless / Sufferer was a normal ancestor, aside from his blood and flashbacks to the pre-Scratch session.

Equius' ancestor was an Archeradicator, despite his strength.

That's why Equius wanted to be an Archeradicator so badly, yet also cherished the STRONGNESS that stood in his way.

  • The strength problem was dealt with by giving him a supermassive bow that fired arrows the size of a building, making him into a living siege weapon.
    • He could have crafted said supermassive bow himself using a possible wealth of technical knowledge, reflected in Equius' robot-building hobby.
      • Jossed.
        • Not jossed, he could've been one before his exile.
          • Now confirmed, he was almost certainly the E%ecutor of the Sufferer.

Sollux has two ancestors. Karkat has none.

Look at it this way, it has been confirmed that Terezi and Vriska are sisters. And it is highly likely that Eridan and Feferi are siblings, the same is true of Team Charge. What's notable about all these pairings is that all of them have consecutive colors on the hemospectrum. From this we can determine that: Equius and Gamzee are brothers. Kanaya and Nepeta are sisters. This leaves Karkat and Sollux as the only odd ones out.

Sollux, true to character, will probably have two ancestors, leaving Karkat with none. Where did Karkat's genes come from then? He had some of the random genes left over in the 'slurry', including many recessive genes that, with some mutations, gave Karkat his red blood.

CG: IT WAS REALLY FUCKING COMPLICATED AND I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO IT.
CG: OUR FAMILY STRUCTURES ARE ALREADY WAY MORE COMPLICATED THAN YOURS WITHOUT EVEN GETTING SPOOKY TIME SLIME INVOLVED.

    • Actually based on screens from [S] Past Karkat: Wake up and from general similarities, each troll is genetically related to one other, but are almost identical to one of their parents, similar to how John is pretty similar to Nanna or Dave is similar to Bro.
  • {Jossed}. Sollux's ancestor, The Ψiioniic has been revealed.

The so-called Troll Ancestors don't actually exist.

  • The only proof we have of their existance is Mindfang's Journal and nothing else.
  • The journal could have been made at any point in time and delivered to the past via meteor.
  • Doc Scratch has stated that everything that has happened (doomed timeline or not) will always happen.
    • In the same manner that Nanasprite left a note for John one of the lusisprites (most likely Spidermomsprite) wrote it for the trolls to find.
    • Probably Jossed... but it does make Scratch's corroboration very interesting.

Wait this has interesting implications that should be posted.

  • The basic assumption of this is that everything said of the ancestors is probably true but all that has been shown is a lie.
  • Doc said he doesn't lie, but he said nothing about showing lies. Also Hussie suggest at least some of the whole "Story from Scratch" is... flawed information.
    • The demoness is really Aradia's Kangaram Lusus presumably kidnapped at the point of the mindhoney massacre.
    • Somehow Spidermom's death was indirectly caused by Tinkerbull.
    • Crabdad probably isn't the sufferer, the sufferer may have been that lobsterdemon judge, because black blood isn't exactly on the hemospectrum either. Instead Crabdad is what was constructed to serve as a guardian for the sufferer's descendant.
      • Of course, AH also yelled at Doc Scratch for "writing troll fanfiction again," and then strangled him...so, that whole thing might not even be close to canon...and of course his whole "not lying" thing might have been a lie...doubtful, but possible...

Karkat will survive Gamzee's rage by becoming angry.

"But he's always angry", you say? No, he's always frustrated. He's Surrounded by Idiots, and grew up as a red-blooded pariah- there was hardly ever a day when he wasn't frustrated. Remember how he accused Vriska of spreading her hate so thin that it meant nothing? Karkat is the exact same way, never able to express anything more than a dull, simmering bitterness.

But now... His allies are the last trolls in the universe, and they insist on killing each other off. His people are threatened by an Outside Context Villain that looks just like one of his closest friends. The biggest threat to his well-being is a fucking Juggalo. For the first time in his life, Karkat's simmering blood will finally come to a boil. He's going to get angry, and whatever gets in his way will die horribly.

  • And the fact that he may be related to His Honorable Tyranny may help his case.
    • Not related. Also probably dead in all likelihood.
  • Also you are assuming that Karkat could ever actually hate anyone other than himself. His own team has regarded his attitude as worry or meddling not actual hatred.
  • Jossed. He defeats Gamzee with The Power of Friendship.

Karkat's ancestor is the reason his blood color is regarded as a mutation.

With the revelation that he apparently led a failed rebellion, and the fact that even his symbol became 'heretical', it makes sense that his blood color would also be purged from the hemospectrum. He was probably wiped off the record as well, so that when Karkat was born/left the caves/whatever trolls actually do, he found no evidence to any other troll with blood like his, and regarded himself as a freak. With her long lifespan, the troll Empress is probably the only living troll who remembers the rebellion, so no other troll would have seen blood like his either. The only hitch in this is that the cancer symbol apparently re-entered the system to be Karkat's symbol. Who knows why/how.

    • Symbols are assigned in some manner through the trials each troll undergoes. Karkat may have simply been tenacious enough to get a symbol long forgotten. After all, after a few generations, nobody would remember the rebellion ever happened at all.
      • The rebellion was the biggest disaster for troll-kind ever. Not talked about? Sure. Forgotten? Unlikely.
    • More likely it's the fact that the sufferers symbol was a red 69 and karkat's flipped that turnways and made it grey. It's like Supermans glasses.
      • Jossed. We now have an explanation for Karkat's symbol: it represents the irons the Sufferer (aka the Signless) died in, and apparently the Sufferer's followers are responsible for him getting it. The blood color was always a mutant one.

The Scratch will save the trolls from Bec Noir.

Vriska's fairy trail will lead Noir back to the troll meteor, but the Scratch will move him to the trolls' session before he can do anything.

  • Jossed... so very jossed...
    • Un-Jossed that's not how it happened.
      • Re-Jossed The Scratch causes the problem how could it also solve it?
        • Paradox = Chaos, every solution is it's own problem.
        • Jossed via misunderstanding of the Scratch!

Gamzee was saved because he had Lil Cal

And is indeed impersonating Karkat

  • Jack doesn't care about Cal that much considering he used him as a weapon against Aradia for....no real reason.
    • Considering his omnipotence, he may have thrown Cal so it would end up in Gamzee's hands. He does have a weird sense of honour regarding people) in posession of items he uses as weapons, who aren't using the items as weapons against him.
      • Not anymore on the honor front.
      • To be fair he thought he was sort of an honorable fighter until he found out the people he was fighting JUST WOULDN'T DIE and then they banished him to another session.

Tavros is really behind everything that has happened to the trolls, God tier Tavros that is from the future

  • Think about it, he can control bec, that means that he may also be able to control bec noir now and he's gotta be a bit pissed off at everything that's happened to him.
    • Aside from the fact that Tavros is DEAD.

The Condesce (Feferi's ancestor) was as nice as Feferi.

  • She was unable to reform the trolls' Evil Empire because she was a puppet empress isolated from reality by her advisors.
    • Where did this name come from? I thought she was just The Empress. Also she's the one who casually planned to murder Feferi and propelled troll society to become a murderous galactic empire in the span of roughly a century so....
    • JOSSED. Though it is possible that pre!scratch Feferi Ancestor was nice.
      • She seems to have shown up too and wow is she creepy.

Vriska's death is permanent

Being killed is her just dessert. Her dying was Just enough to constitute her not coming back. She's done too many awful things, and deserves to have died at Terezi's hand.

Vriska's death isn't permanent because it is neither sufficiently heroic nor sufficiently just

Vriska's death was not a Heroic Sacrifice in the pursuit of a just cause, and therefore insufficiently heroic. Terezi ultimately chose to stab her in order to prevent the Bad Future she had foreseen, it was an I Did What I Had to Do / Shoot the Dog moment, and therefore insufficiently just due to her killer's motivation.

Vriska's death isn't permanent because, now we've seen her chatlog with John, her death is insufficiently just

Vriska's death WAS just a few panels ago... But that was before we saw how much she hated being a "good troll". Now we have, the perception of her death has changed, and to remain dead would be unjust.

The Trolls' ancestors are carbon copies of the Trolls sent back in time during Karkat's ectobiology session.

It's stated that Karkat produced 2 sets of 12 Trolls, but nothing is ever said about mixing of codes; He simply created 2 identical sets of grubs, sent 1 dozen back to their appropriate wriggling days and the other dozen back to a time appropriate to their ancestors'. You have to admit, the ancestors all line up to the current Trolls just a little too precisely for the similarities to be written off as ancestor worship.

  • Probably Jossed, but it does make Scratch's jossing of it particularly interesting.
    • They're the genetic children of the modern trolls.

Possibly not counting with her dream self, Nepeta had nine lives.

She was the Leo troll, after all; also, puns of any kind shall not be missed, in special cat ones. Though, we don't know if she died because she spent her other 8 lives during hunting, or if it was because Gamzee killed her nine times (which seems to be the most probable outcome), it's unknown. Sollux said he'd die two times, but never said anything about trolls who would die any more times than that.

  • Her powers of Heart haven't been revealed yet... And Andrew does know what they are presumably, considering he managed to slip in what Equius's Void powers were, and Terezi's, Karkat's, and Kanaya's/Jade's powers are current plot points.

Karkat had hate sex with Gamzee a) to calm him down or b) to get close enough to kill him.

CG: IT'S JUST A TROLL THING, HUMANS WOULDN'T GET IT.

  • Those purple bloodstains could be from additional wounds on Gamzee, or transferred from his face during a makeout session.
    • Alternatively, he could have just engaged in sloppy makeouts with Gamz to 'deal' with him temporarily, hence his refusal to mention it to John. (If the whole 'not a homosexual' thing is a huge cultural barrier for him, Karkat can't imagine trying to explain a blackrom version-- especially if his first conversation with John is so close to appearing on the kid's timeline.)
    • It would also correlate closely with Spades and Snowman's "Hate Snog"
    • Unlikely; Andrew loves to tease shippers but such blatant sexual actions are right out. As for the makeouts, plausible, but neither of them have ever displayed any interest in each other.
    • Right idea, wrong quadrant. As of the 8/22 update, it's revealed that Karkat calmed down Gamzee via moiraillegiance.
    • To add onto the above point, the reason Karkat has purple bloodstains on his face is from when they hugged. If I recall correctly, their cheeks were pressed together, which would be why Karkat now has blood on his face.

Although Gamzee is still alive at the critical moment, he is mortally wounded.

Plot Armor only ensures that he'll survive until the critical moment. He's probably back to his old self and going out with a smile.

  • Jossed. Karkat reformed Gamzee without any bloodshed, and at the critical moment he's exchanging words with Scratch, completely alive.

The mind honey is a Chekhov's Gun.

Sollux or Aradia will use the mind honey as a Psycho Serum to enhance his or her psionic powers, or another troll will use it to awaken dormant psionic powers.

  • Mind Honey was presumably destroyed along with Sollux's hive when Jack was blowing up planets
  • The gun already fired long ago when Vriska manipulated Sollux into killing Aradia. Note the honey on his mouth and in the half-empty jar in his hand. That's why her house was leveled.
    • Presumably it's since been destroyed completely when Jack blew up the lands.

Terezi's Super Senses are a manifestation of Psychic Powers.

That's why she can smell and taste colours, she uses synesthesia to subconsciously make sense of information she percieves with her psychic powers, this is why Tavros's blood smells like chocolate here, but not here, and why she smells Karkat's blood colour, Dave's text and human blood colour as candy red, but smells Sollux's eye colourz as appleberry blast even though his red eye's the same shade. The smelloscope is either a Magic Feather or a psychic lense allowing her to focus her perception on distant targets.

  • Jossed, look at any panel from her perspective. It fades in and out, showing she's clearly breathing. Likewise she's certain she can teach Sollux this.

Karkat's corpsesmooch is what cause Kanaya to become a Rainbow Drinker.

Karkat is the Knight of Blood. Rainbow Drinkers are like vampires and are associated with blood. There is clearly some connection.

  • Andrew has specifically jossed this one to my knowledge. Something to do with her own role as a Slyph + her past on Alternia. Karkat's powers are unrelated.
    • It seems that all the players have abilities before they enter that are not related to their aspects. The time players both control time but one could flash step before he entered the game and the other had telekinesis before she entered the game. Kanaya may have been destined to become a Rainbowdrinker all along but had to die in order for it to happen.

The "Karkat" John is talking to is actually Gamzee

Quote: "IT WAS. A MOTHERFUCKING. JOKE.". One of Gamzee's personalities types the same way.

  • Because we all know Karkat never references other quirks of the trolls.
    • What would be the point of that? Also if it is really Gamzee he is doing a spot on imitation.
  • Extremely, extremely unlikely, if not Jossed, for a couple of reasons. 1: If you're implying that Gamzee killed Karkat offscreen, keep in mind that Doc Scratch had just got done saying "What sort of story would this be, with our Knight and Seer made to stay cadavers? Certainly not one the alpha timeline would allow. And not one [Terezi] would allow either." In that sense, does it really matter whether it's Bec Noir or Gamzee that kills Karkat and Terezi? 2: We SAW Karkat, drenched in Gamzee's blood, at Vriska's computer.
  • So very Jossed as of 8/22.

J is also the grandson of Vriska

They have identical handwriting, aside from Vriska's Ms as scorpio signs. What that means for John/Vriska, well we'll just have to see.

  • John x Vriska= Subject A, Jade x Unknown Participant= Subject B, Subject A x Subject B = J

Although take note that this would mean a crossbreeding of cousins, Hussie has played incest for laughs however it is unknown if he would actually write it into the story.

Karkat and John have Inter-species relations and Karkat is his own ancestor

In either the alpha timeline or a split time line, Karkat and John have delicious hate(on karkat's side)/love(on johns side) sex and Karkat is made the old fashion way, by submitting their generic material in that mass bucket of incestuous slurry.

John, being human and having red blood, is the wild card in the troll reproduction cycle that gives Karkat his red blood.

  • Jossed. Karkat's ancestor is the Sufferer, there was a whole sequence about it remember? His rebellion was so pants shittingly terrifying that he and his blood color were wiped from history.

Karkat lobotomized Gamzee.

Gamzee was mellow due to the effects of the supor slime pies affecting his brain. Karkat realized that, and, unwilling to kill a troll he's considered his very best friend since the beginning, opted to return Gamzee to the way he was by using his sickles to give his friend a lobotomy, so he'll have no memories of him being a descended Subjugglator.

  • 1. How would Karkat even know how to lobotomize someone? 2. How do you lobotomize someone with a siccle? 3. Is Gamzee just standing still while this is happening or did Kanaya kick him in the balls again? 4. A lobotomy is not laser guided amnesia it is the process of cutting appart the brain, he wouldn't be back to his soper self he would be catatonic.
    • 1. You're talking about somebody who created 12 babies from scratch, creates viruses that destroy computers and is generally the only sane man in a clique of trolls that have various psychological problems. I think he's capable. 2. Watch the curve of the blades. Simply drive both into the frontal cortex. 3. Ambush. 4. The effects of a lobotomy varies. Some people who have had them still go on to lead normal, if somewhat different lives. Did Not Do the Research, much?
      • The machine made the babies, he pressed buttons. Sollux made the virus Karkat executed it. Straight needle-thin objects are required for lobotomization and a siccle may not be thin enough. Ambush the guy who teleports might actually work (have worked? since it technically already happened we just didn't see it) seeing as it was already done against Dave by Bro, however Bro did have the same ability. It is true that the results of lobotomies is veriable and that they are still done today, but not on mental patients. It's done on epilepsy patients to basically kill the part of the brain causing the problems. Did do the research.
  • Jossed.

Eridan is a closet asexual.

In troll society, the failure to reproduce is punishable by death. As a highblood, there's an awful lot of pressure on Eridan to uphold the ah, societal norms, and so Eridan rejects his sexuality - or lack thereof. He's not aromantic though.

  • Feferi is the only one who knew.
  • Only he never displays any of that? He looks to be a perfectly normal and actually overly romantic even by troll standards. Sounds to me like someone's reading themselves into a character and seeing things that don't exist.
    • Besides which, what would being "asexual" even mean in the context of troll society?
      • Remember that providing reproductive materials is manditory in troll culture. If someone doesn't provide, regardless of the reason, they're culled on grounds of not being a contributing (read: necessary) part of the community. Not seeking sexual partners would land a troll square in culling territory.

That's not Gamzee Flashstepping

Gamzee can create and manipulate puppets. That's his shadow doing it and messing with everyone, not Gamzee himself.

  • Gamzee can NOT create and manipulate puppets. He can plant suggestions into people's heads while they're dreaming. The puppet getting created was part of the dream, and they became real in case of the players (due to their dreamselves).

Aradia is Betty Crocker

All the precieved evil that she has done is actually just her trying to preserve the timelines.

  • She could have time shenanigans to give Dave the miracles video.

Aradia is the Cuestick of the Felt.

...or at least, Doc Scratch is trying to make her fill this role. Look at her hair in this strip here. Those are mini cuesticks embedded in it.

  • Lord English is the cuestick, which makes a lot more sense. The Handmaiden merely has the mini cuestick to indicate her affiliation.

The Aradia we're seeing is Dream!Aradia

Doc is taking her to the crypt in Derse we saw in [S] Wake, where she will/did ascend to God Tier later.

  • Jossed. See below.

Sollux Captor is the Tumor

When he was speaking with Aradia in front of the green sun, whilst flying, he's shown to have one black eye and one white eye. This makes sense because Sollux can fly himself into the green sun, thus preventing two of the main characters' deaths.

  • Jossed. Both the Tumor and the cause of Sollux's death are very different.

Vriska will destroy the Green Sun

Her title is the Thief of Light, as in the Green Sun's light. Rose is only the Seer of Light. Even though Vriska is dead, no one knows if she will come back or not.

  • Erm... very little room was left for her to come back outside of dreambubbles...
  • Light=Fortune

Doc Scratch was the source of Mindfang's diary

Two words: "troll fanfiction". Although Scratch has said in the past that he never lies except by omission, we only have his word for that, and Hussie just implied that he was making up at least the story he was telling about the Sufferer and Condence. Our only other source for the ancestors is the diary, and we've already established Scratch's penchant for manipulating Vriska...could the whole deal with the ancestors be Scratch's way of shaping at least Vriska, if not all twelve trolls to varying extents, to suit his own ends?

The skin of trolls turn black when they mature.

Everyone thinks that the adult trolls are being obscured in shadow, but look at her Imperial Condescension and the Helmsman here. That face is way too detailed to be in shadow, and if the Helmsman's face was in shadow, you wouldn't see the blood so clearly on his face.

Pre-Scratch Ancestor!Karkat and/or Condesce!Feferi were responsible for Pre-Scratch Alternia's peacefulness

By which I mean, if Condesce!Feferi wasn't a peaceful ruler to begin with, then Ancestor!Karkat would have led a successful and bloodless revolution to improve the lives of low-bloods, flying in the face of tradition. Chances are Condesce!Feferi would have no problem with it. That was how Hero!Sufferer and his group came to grow up in such a peaceful environment.

  • The impression I got was that if it weren't for Scratch's meddling, there'd be nothing for Ancestor!Karkat to rebel against in the first place.
    • Seemingly that is the case.

Karkat's Knight of Blood title means he can control people's bloodlust

Which is how he's able to calm Gamzee and keep his Ragtag Bunch of Misfits together for so long.

  • That would seemingly fall under the dominion of Rage.

Sollux isn't going to die after the events of [S] Cascade.

It looks like he's sacrificing himself, but he's not going to die. According to the Homestuck Laws of Symmetry, he actually CAN'T. If you look at it this way, there are an even number of kids and an even number of trolls, an even number of Prospit and Derse dreamers (Sollux himself being the only exception), and most importantly, an even number of boys and girls. If Sollux died, one of the three remaining troll girls would have to die (I'm not counting UU because she's already an outlier in this situation). Aradia can't die unless it's heroic or just, Kanaya presumably can't die because she's a rainbow drinker (I'm not sure how that works though), and Terezi can't die because Doc Scratch himself said the Alpha Timeline wouldn't allow it. Previous troll deaths have also come in boy/girl pairs; Tavros and Feferi (who incidentally were both killed by the people who were romantically interested in them), and Equius and Nepeta. Based on that, it would have to be Aradia that dies if Sollux does, and as God Tier, I don't think she will be dying any time soon. TL;DR, Based on HS Laws of Symmetry, Sollux won't be dying unless one of the troll girls is going to die too (and for all intents and purposes, that's impossible for now). Anyway, that's the WHY he's not dead yet. As for the HOW, I think it's going to have something to do with his once-mentioned and as-of-yet unrevealed Prospit dreamself.

  • Jossed. He dies.

The Summoner was the only Pre-Scratch Troll to reach God Tier.

It explains the wings, obviously, which nobody else has.

  • Jossed, at least Arenea did.

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