Category talk:Trope Workshop

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Proposal: Set a maximum number of trope candidates that any one troper can suggest at one time

22
Robkelk (talkcontribs)

No matter how many trope candidates we've launched in 2020 and early 2021, we just can't get the number of candidates below 40, let alone down to something manageable -- which, considering how many active Tropers we have editing ATT, is IMHO less than a dozen.

In an effort to get some control over the Trope Workshop, I propose a new rule: Nobody is allowed to have made the edit that created more than three candidates in the Trope Workshop at any given time.

We'll "grandfather" in the existing candidates, so nothing will need to be deleted if somebody has started more than three current candidates -- but the existing candidates still count toward the three that any one Trper would be allowed to have in the Workshop at any given time. This means that @Kuma, @Looney Toons, @Beta Log 86, @TBeholder, and @Umbire the Phantom would each need to get their current lists of candidates down to no more than two before proposing any new candidates in the Trope Workshop.

As of this posting, we have 40 candidates in the Trope Workshop. Sorted by the Troper who created them, they are:

Inherited from TV Tropes and moved back to the Workshop for an overhaul (7 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Come Back, My Pet
  • Trope Workshop:Freeze Frame Ending
  • Trope Workshop:Hands Go Down
  • Trope Workshop:Meta Multiplayer
  • Trope Workshop:Spell My Name with a "The"
  • Trope Workshop:Static Electricity
  • Trope Workshop:You Know Nothing About X

(With at least 16 more waiting to be moved into the Workshop for overhaul)

2dgirlfan (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Therapeutic Manifest Nightmare

Beta Log 86 (3 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Meeting Influential People in The Afterlife
  • Trope Workshop:Screw The Pain Medication
  • Trope Workshop:The Bully is a Nerd

Blakegripling ph (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Tech Support Scammer

Goo Monster (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Rigged Riddle

Josh6243 (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Dive Kick

Kuma (12 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Alternate Realm Boon
  • Trope Workshop:Average in One World, Powerful in Another
  • Trope Workshop:Beary Cute
  • Trope Workshop:Bubble Blower
  • Trope Workshop:Chaos Control
  • Trope Workshop:Kori Kombat
  • Trope Workshop:Metaphysical App
  • Trope Workshop:Potent Pheromones
  • Trope Workshop:RPG Rapture
  • Trope Workshop:Shield Slinger
  • Trope Workshop:Titled Superpowers
  • Trope Workshop:Words act more than Actions

Labster (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Fremen Mirage

Looney Toons (4 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Anyone Got a Light?
  • Trope Workshop:Big Lie
  • Trope Workshop:Bug-Out
  • Trope Workshop:The Rabbit Died

Robkelk (2 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Token Lesbian
  • Trope Workshop:Wants the Work Done for Them

SMargan (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:"There and Back" Story

TBeholder (3 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Bomb On a Stick
  • Trope Workshop:Faction Mechanics
  • Trope Workshop:Signature Colors

Umbire the Phantom (3 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Cosmic Close Call
  • Trope Workshop:Mirror Mook
  • Trope Workshop:Remakequel

This means that, even if we got these candidates down to one per person, we'd still have more than a dozen candidates. Thus, this rule alone isn't going to solve the backlog issue... but it would be a huge step forward.

Pinging everyone else on this list who isn't pinged above, and all mods who aren't listed above: @2dgirlfan @Blakegripling ph @Goo Monster @Josh6243 @SMargan @Labster @GethN7 @QuestionableSanity @Derivative @SelfCloak

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

3 months now - can we get an update on this here list?

EDIT: Never mind, I'll do it myself - was just curious at how things progressed and I know we have a bunch of pages in the mainspace now. Never mind the never mind!

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

Seconded. And the only reason I haven't pushed (much) to get my trope candidates out the door is I felt it was inappropriate to shill my own work.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

You'll never become a published author if you don't promote your own writing... (looks at bookshelf, sees books written by said troper sitting there) ...ah, you know what I mean. Let the work speak for itself, but make sure it has an audience to hear it speak.

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

Ah! Good thing you caught me when you did, I was literally in the middle of preparing a fourth candidate! I'll keep it on the backburner until one of my current three is launched, though I'll still be working on the text and such.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Thanks. I know that Looney Tunes and I each have another candidate ready; we just have them in our personal sandboxes instead of here.

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

Wait, so you wouldn't consider personal sandboxes to be circumventing this limit?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Correct. Sandboxes are (partially) for "not ready for primetime" pages, and a half-worked-out trope candidate definitely qualifies there. We won't promote a page from a sandbox to the wild world of tropes, though - it still has to go through the Workshop.

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

Of course you wouldn't, makes sense - I just wasn't clear if there would be something about circumventing limits in there.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

I wouldn't call what I have "ready"...

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

Concur we need a limit of some sort.

Kuma (talkcontribs)

I am curious about the pages that need an edit pass and when it would be possible for a mod to do it. There is also how I thought the Bubble Blower page was going to be deleted?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

I can't speak for the other mods, but I have at least a decade's worth of work just cleaning up the licenses of images that we received from TV Tropes in 2012 plus the images uploaded without license information since then. It won't be me who helps to clear your backlog, at least not any time soon.

Josh6243 (talkcontribs)

That works for me. Setting a limit can make things run more easily.

Lequinni (talkcontribs)

I agree with the limit, mostly because it helps to streamline the work for the mod team and the four cats that actually edit here with any regularity.

I'd say that many of the things in the workshop are practically ready, just needing a grammar pass to launch. I have helped whenever I could, but there is only so much what an ELS with the LanguageTool extension like me can do.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Looks like we have consensus, if not unanimity. New rule goes into effect now...

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Since there has been a request for an update...

Inherited from TV Tropes and moved back to the Workshop for an overhaul (10 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:All There Is to Know About "The Crying Game"
  • Trope Workshop:Come Back, My Pet
  • Trope Workshop:Extendable Arms
  • Trope Workshop:Hands Go Down
  • Trope Workshop:Nausea Fuel
  • Trope Workshop:Shiny Sense
  • Trope Workshop:Smarmy Host
  • Trope Workshop:Spell My Name with a "The"
  • Trope Workshop:You Are the New Trend
  • Trope Workshop:You Know Nothing About X

(With at least 12 more waiting to be moved into the Workshop for overhaul)

2dgirlfan (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Therapeutic Manifest Nightmare

Beta Log 86 (2 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Screw The Pain Medication
  • Trope Workshop:The Bully is a Nerd

Blakegripling ph (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Tech Support Scammer

Goo Monster (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Duet Mood Dissonance

Josh6243 (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Dive Kick

Kuma (10 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Alternate Realm Boon
  • Trope Workshop:Average in One World, Powerful in Another
  • Trope Workshop:Beary Cute
  • Trope Workshop:Chaos Control
  • Trope Workshop:Metaphysical App
  • Trope Workshop:Potent Pheromones
  • Trope Workshop:RPG Rapture
  • Trope Workshop:Shield Slinger
  • Trope Workshop:Titled Superpowers
  • Trope Workshop:Words act more than Actions

Labster (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Fremen Mirage

Looney Toons (2 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Anyone Got a Light?
  • Trope Workshop:Big Lie

RivetVermin (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Random-Number Band Name

Robkelk (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Tropeophile

TBeholder (2 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Faction Mechanics
  • Trope Workshop:Signature Colors

Umbire the Phantom (2 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Cosmic Close Call
  • Trope Workshop:Remakequel
Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

Oh. Ballin'.

Thanks, Rob, got self-conscious after asking. 6_9

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

No worries. I wanted to see whether I could move a few more old tropes back to the workshop, anyway.

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

Also, what happened with Therapeutic Manifest Nightmare?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

That's a good question... It looks like nobody's touched it in months. EDIT: Correction: Nobody's touched it for a year and a half.

I'd be reluctant to launch it in its current condition - the description is two sentences long, and I've been moving old TV Tropes pages with linger descriptions back to the workshop to get better descriptions.

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

I couldn't even find it via searching at first - only realized what I was doing wrong after the fact but even then I didn't parse that I should go back and look for it the 'proper' way.

In any case, @2dgirlfan hasn't been seen in quite a while, so I'll see about taking on the task of sprucing it up for eventual launching.

So, about copyright issues...

7
Utini501 (talkcontribs)

I know that this site has copyright policies that don't allow straight-up copypastes from TV Tropes. Not complaining about that since I whole-heartedly agree with the rules, but how does this work in terms of tropes themselves? I've been wanting to make pages for tropes we currently aren't covering like Moth Menace, Wicked Wasps, and Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist, but do the copyright policies disallow creation of these tropes? I just want a clear understanding before going through with what I've considered to be a pretty big project.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Tropes cannot be copyrighted, but expressions of tropes can be copyrighted. So what we need to do is take the fundamental idea and re-state it in a completely different way - not a sentence-for-sentence re-write of what's at TVT, but a completely different approach. This is a chance to show off your creative writing skills! (EDIT: This, by the way, is why some of our newer tropes have different names than the equivalents at TVT.)

That said, we have a huge backlog of trope candidates at the moment and not enough people to do the work in shepherding them to either the wild world of tropes or the bit-bucket. (I for one prefer to avoid the bit-bucket.) As a troper, I'd prefer to not see any more candidates until we can get at least another dozen or so candidates through the process - after that, we should be good.

Utini501 (talkcontribs)

Gotcha. I don't know how much I can really do to help, but I'll try to flesh out some of those tropes that are currently in the workshop.h

Arlo James Barnes (talkcontribs)

> This, by the way, is why some of our newer tropes have different names than the equivalents at TVT.

That's a good thing, in my opinion, given TVT's apparently greater propensity to expand category:Esoteric Trope Names compared to ATT.

Utini501 (talkcontribs)

So it's been a few months, and I've helped get a few tropes out of the workshop while a few others (Beary Cute, Dive Kick, Extendable Arms, Signature Colors) are basically ready to launch. Would it be okay for me to start launching some new tropes of my own, or should we wait longer?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

I think we can squeeze another one in... (says the mod who just squeezed one of his own in)

Utini501 (talkcontribs)

As long as it's okay, I'll get straight to work! And don't worry: I've already done a lot of preliminary work on the one I'm proposing in my sandbox, so I don't see it spending a lot of time in the workshop.

Proposal: Trope Launch Requires Approval for Grammar and Markup

1
Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

The newly-launched page One-way Entrance is practically illiterate, with such golden sentences as:

H.H. Holmes's "Murder Castle," which not only has this trope happens, secret passages, fake walls, and hidden rooms, which are all design to kill his guests.

Many examples are incomplete sentence fragments with essentially random structure and verb tenses, along with missing words. The article as a whole is also lacking consistent punctuation, almost universally lacks proper italics around work names, has unlinked and misspelled work names, and generally looks like it was written by a drunken fifth-grader. It is an embarrassment.

I propose that no trope be allowed to leave the workshop until an Admin or a user we have vetted for this purpose has certified that it is written in proper, grammatical English, that its contents are correctly spelled throughout, and is marked up properly for links and style.

Goo Monster (talkcontribs)

The Create a new page button is broken.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

Okay, I just went to the page, entered a name, clicked the button, and got a new page. So, necessary questions since your initial report is lacking in detail:

  1. Did you enter a page name first?
  2. What browser did you use?
  3. Does your browser have any kind of Javascript-blocking active?
Goo Monster (talkcontribs)

I was being stupid and didn't think to enter the page name first.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

Okay, cool. That's far better news than the alternative. And don't feel stupid, I've done the same thing a few times myself.

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