Category talk:Trope Workshop

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"Don't flood the Workshop"

16
Robkelk (talkcontribs)

The rule in the subject line currently tells people to have no more than three trope candidates in the workshop at one time... which we thought would solve the problem of Tropers flooding the Trope Workshop.

However, it appears that two(?) people are following the letter of the rule while ignoring the spirit, having three trope candidates in the Trope Workshop at all times. (Since I'm not sure of the count, I'm not naming names.) I consider that to count as flooding the Workshop.

I know that @Looney Toons has a collection of trope candidates that are at least as fleshed-out as some of the trope candidates that are being posted here. I've seen the draft pages. He doesn't pop a new candidate into the Workshop as soon as another is approved or rejected. Instead, he lets other people's ideas get their moments in the spotlight.

Can people voluntarily wait a week or two between the launch of one of their candidates and the proposal of another candidate? Please?

@Agiletek @GentlemensDame883 @HeneryVII @HornyLikeIAmA14YearOldGirl @Kuma‎ @Jlaw‎ @Lequinni‎ @RivetVermin @Umbire the Phantom @Utini501 @Labster @Looney Toons @GethN7 @Robkelk @QuestionableSanity @Derivative @SelfCloak

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

He doesn't pop a new candidate into the Workshop as soon as another is approved or rejected.

Well, not always. I do sometimes jump the gun.

Jlaw (talkcontribs)

Hi @Robkelk,

So to clarify, you would prefer if I didn't have three at a time in the workshop? I'm perfectly fine with that. :)

Kuma (talkcontribs)

I read that he wanted to make a wait time before people launched other candidates if their other ones were rejected or launched. How did you read that he wanted less candidates for tropers?

Kuma (talkcontribs)

I need clarification on the spirit part of the rules. If they are being followed, then there shouldn't be a problem. Also, if a wait time is needed where a troper needs to wait, it would be a day to three days.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

You can have three in the workshop - that's the rule that we all agreed on.

I'd just prefer that people slow down a bit, so that the older tropes can get some love, too. The wiki isn't going anywhere; folks can wait a week between tropes, really.

Kuma (talkcontribs)

Thanks for that. Can we discuss the wait time, like something shorter?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Why are you so impatient?

Kuma (talkcontribs)

I'm not impatient; I just wanted to discuss a shorter waiting period. If there is a problem with a shorter wait time than a week, I am okay with reading about it or discussing it.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

I'm not impatient; I just wanted to discuss a shorter waiting period

That's being impatient.

Everyone else who has posted is okay with a one-week waiting period. I suspect that you would be outvoted if we made this an official policy discussion.

Kuma (talkcontribs)

I do not want to vote against it but for it and I never stated that I disagreed or want to not vote for it. I want to discuss the possibility of having something different but similar. I really wanted to talk about whether it's possible to have a minimum and maximum if a after workshop gets launched or deleted. Would it work if there is a minimum of three days and a maximum of seven days? My goal with my responses is to gain discussion and to allow perspectives to be understood like your own and how you want to there to be a waiting period for others' candidates to shine.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

I am opposed to a maximum time between offering trope candidates. I do not want to see people being forced to create and post a second trope candidate just because they created and posted the only one trope candidate that they wanted to see here.

If we required a maximum time between trope candidates, we would be requiring people to create trope candidates for the rest of their lives. And that's a bad thing.

As for the minimum time, I posted my request. You disagree with my opinion, and that's okay. This isn't a policy, it's just a request -- if you choose to ignore my request, there's nothing I can do about it.

Kuma (talkcontribs)

No, I don't disagree, you discuss eloquently and I thank you. It's just my perspective is "the sooner, the better" to make sure that procrastination won't happen if the policy is implemented. I don't have any problems and we can move forward.

Jlaw (talkcontribs)

More than happy to slow down! It sounds more than reasonable.

Utini501 (talkcontribs)

Yeah, I'm okay with a week long waiting period!

GentlemensDame883 (talkcontribs)

A week between is fine with me.

Proposal: Set a maximum number of trope candidates that any one troper can suggest at one time

59
Robkelk (talkcontribs)

No matter how many trope candidates we've launched in 2020 and early 2021, we just can't get the number of candidates below 40, let alone down to something manageable -- which, considering how many active Tropers we have editing ATT, is IMHO less than a dozen.

In an effort to get some control over the Trope Workshop, I propose a new rule: Nobody is allowed to have made the edit that created more than three candidates in the Trope Workshop at any given time.

We'll "grandfather" in the existing candidates, so nothing will need to be deleted if somebody has started more than three current candidates -- but the existing candidates still count toward the three that any one Trper would be allowed to have in the Workshop at any given time. This means that @Kuma, @Looney Toons, @Beta Log 86, @TBeholder, and @Umbire the Phantom would each need to get their current lists of candidates down to no more than two before proposing any new candidates in the Trope Workshop.

As of this posting, we have 40 candidates in the Trope Workshop. Sorted by the Troper who created them, they are:

Inherited from TV Tropes and moved back to the Workshop for an overhaul (7 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Come Back, My Pet
  • Trope Workshop:Freeze Frame Ending
  • Trope Workshop:Hands Go Down
  • Trope Workshop:Meta Multiplayer
  • Trope Workshop:Spell My Name with a "The"
  • Trope Workshop:Static Electricity
  • Trope Workshop:You Know Nothing About X

(With at least 16 more waiting to be moved into the Workshop for overhaul)

2dgirlfan (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Therapeutic Manifest Nightmare

Beta Log 86 (3 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Meeting Influential People in The Afterlife
  • Trope Workshop:Screw The Pain Medication
  • Trope Workshop:The Bully is a Nerd

Blakegripling ph (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Tech Support Scammer

Goo Monster (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Rigged Riddle

Josh6243 (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Dive Kick

Kuma (12 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Alternate Realm Boon
  • Trope Workshop:Average in One World, Powerful in Another
  • Trope Workshop:Beary Cute
  • Trope Workshop:Bubble Blower
  • Trope Workshop:Chaos Control
  • Trope Workshop:Kori Kombat
  • Trope Workshop:Metaphysical App
  • Trope Workshop:Potent Pheromones
  • Trope Workshop:RPG Rapture
  • Trope Workshop:Shield Slinger
  • Trope Workshop:Titled Superpowers
  • Trope Workshop:Words act more than Actions

Labster (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Fremen Mirage

Looney Toons (4 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Anyone Got a Light?
  • Trope Workshop:Big Lie
  • Trope Workshop:Bug-Out
  • Trope Workshop:The Rabbit Died

Robkelk (2 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Token Lesbian
  • Trope Workshop:Wants the Work Done for Them

SMargan (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:"There and Back" Story

TBeholder (3 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Bomb On a Stick
  • Trope Workshop:Faction Mechanics
  • Trope Workshop:Signature Colors

Umbire the Phantom (3 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Cosmic Close Call
  • Trope Workshop:Mirror Mook
  • Trope Workshop:Remakequel

This means that, even if we got these candidates down to one per person, we'd still have more than a dozen candidates. Thus, this rule alone isn't going to solve the backlog issue... but it would be a huge step forward.

Pinging everyone else on this list who isn't pinged above, and all mods who aren't listed above: @2dgirlfan @Blakegripling ph @Goo Monster @Josh6243 @SMargan @Labster @GethN7 @QuestionableSanity @Derivative @SelfCloak

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

3 months now - can we get an update on this here list?

EDIT: Never mind, I'll do it myself - was just curious at how things progressed and I know we have a bunch of pages in the mainspace now. Never mind the never mind!

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

Seconded. And the only reason I haven't pushed (much) to get my trope candidates out the door is I felt it was inappropriate to shill my own work.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

You'll never become a published author if you don't promote your own writing... (looks at bookshelf, sees books written by said troper sitting there) ...ah, you know what I mean. Let the work speak for itself, but make sure it has an audience to hear it speak.

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

Ah! Good thing you caught me when you did, I was literally in the middle of preparing a fourth candidate! I'll keep it on the backburner until one of my current three is launched, though I'll still be working on the text and such.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Thanks. I know that Looney Tunes and I each have another candidate ready; we just have them in our personal sandboxes instead of here.

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

Wait, so you wouldn't consider personal sandboxes to be circumventing this limit?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Correct. Sandboxes are (partially) for "not ready for primetime" pages, and a half-worked-out trope candidate definitely qualifies there. We won't promote a page from a sandbox to the wild world of tropes, though - it still has to go through the Workshop.

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

Of course you wouldn't, makes sense - I just wasn't clear if there would be something about circumventing limits in there.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

I wouldn't call what I have "ready"...

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

Concur we need a limit of some sort.

Kuma (talkcontribs)

I am curious about the pages that need an edit pass and when it would be possible for a mod to do it. There is also how I thought the Bubble Blower page was going to be deleted?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

I can't speak for the other mods, but I have at least a decade's worth of work just cleaning up the licenses of images that we received from TV Tropes in 2012 plus the images uploaded without license information since then. It won't be me who helps to clear your backlog, at least not any time soon.

Josh6243 (talkcontribs)

That works for me. Setting a limit can make things run more easily.

Lequinni (talkcontribs)

I agree with the limit, mostly because it helps to streamline the work for the mod team and the four cats that actually edit here with any regularity.

I'd say that many of the things in the workshop are practically ready, just needing a grammar pass to launch. I have helped whenever I could, but there is only so much what an ELS with the LanguageTool extension like me can do.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Looks like we have consensus, if not unanimity. New rule goes into effect now...

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Since there has been a request for an update...

Inherited from TV Tropes and moved back to the Workshop for an overhaul (10 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:All There Is to Know About "The Crying Game"
  • Trope Workshop:Come Back, My Pet
  • Trope Workshop:Extendable Arms
  • Trope Workshop:Hands Go Down
  • Trope Workshop:Nausea Fuel
  • Trope Workshop:Shiny Sense
  • Trope Workshop:Smarmy Host
  • Trope Workshop:Spell My Name with a "The"
  • Trope Workshop:You Are the New Trend
  • Trope Workshop:You Know Nothing About X

(With at least 12 more waiting to be moved into the Workshop for overhaul)

2dgirlfan (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Therapeutic Manifest Nightmare

Beta Log 86 (2 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Screw The Pain Medication
  • Trope Workshop:The Bully is a Nerd

Blakegripling ph (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Tech Support Scammer

Goo Monster (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Duet Mood Dissonance

Josh6243 (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Dive Kick

Kuma (10 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Alternate Realm Boon
  • Trope Workshop:Average in One World, Powerful in Another
  • Trope Workshop:Beary Cute
  • Trope Workshop:Chaos Control
  • Trope Workshop:Metaphysical App
  • Trope Workshop:Potent Pheromones
  • Trope Workshop:RPG Rapture
  • Trope Workshop:Shield Slinger
  • Trope Workshop:Titled Superpowers
  • Trope Workshop:Words act more than Actions

Labster (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Fremen Mirage

Looney Toons (2 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Anyone Got a Light?
  • Trope Workshop:Big Lie

RivetVermin (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Random-Number Band Name

Robkelk (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Tropeophile

TBeholder (2 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Faction Mechanics
  • Trope Workshop:Signature Colors

Umbire the Phantom (2 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Cosmic Close Call
  • Trope Workshop:Remakequel
Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

Oh. Ballin'.

Thanks, Rob, got self-conscious after asking. 6_9

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

No worries. I wanted to see whether I could move a few more old tropes back to the workshop, anyway.

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

Also, what happened with Therapeutic Manifest Nightmare?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

That's a good question... It looks like nobody's touched it in months. EDIT: Correction: Nobody's touched it for a year and a half.

I'd be reluctant to launch it in its current condition - the description is two sentences long, and I've been moving old TV Tropes pages with longer descriptions back to the workshop to get better descriptions.

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

I couldn't even find it via searching at first - only realized what I was doing wrong after the fact but even then I didn't parse that I should go back and look for it the 'proper' way.

In any case, @2dgirlfan hasn't been seen in quite a while, so I'll see about taking on the task of sprucing it up for eventual launching.

Utini501 (talkcontribs)

So just to clarify , the rule is that you can propose a new trope as long as you keep it under three tropes-to-be, right? Probably a dumb question, but I'm a bit confused since the page itself seems to say that there can't be more than three tropes in the workshop period. That, and I'd like to know so I don't annoy the mods with constant requests to add tropes I've been working on (And I do have a new one ready to be added if I get the approval to do so).

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

Yeah, it's three candidates per person.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

And I'll re-word the page. Sorry about that...

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

Asking for an update on who has what candidates in the Workshop currently.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Here you go.

Inherited from TV Tropes and moved back to the Workshop for an overhaul (10 candidates)

  • Trope Workshop:Bipolar Disorder
  • Trope Workshop:Come Back, My Pet
  • Trope Workshop:Complaining About Complaining
  • Trope Workshop:Hands Go Down
  • Trope Workshop:Mayor of a Ghost Town
  • Trope Workshop:Plot-Driving Secret
  • Trope Workshop:Pummel Duel
  • Trope Workshop:Smarmy Host
  • Trope Workshop:Spell My Name with a "The"
  • Trope Workshop:You Are the New Trend

BeesFan12 (1 candidate)

  • Trope Workshop:The Original Darrin

Beta Log 86 (3 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Pet Owl
  • Trope Workshop:Screw The Pain Medication
  • Trope Workshop:The Bully is a Nerd

Blakegripling ph (1 candidate)

  • Trope Workshop:Tech Support Scammer

Christianbethel (1 candidate)

  • Trope Workshop:Singleplayer/Splitscreen Offline Bots

Goo Monster (3 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Duet Mood Dissonance
  • Trope Workshop:Gambling Game
  • Trope Workshop:Hating What You Are Good At

Kuma (8 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Alternate Realm Boon
  • Trope Workshop:Average in One World, Powerful in Another
  • Trope Workshop:Chaos Control
  • Trope Workshop:Metaphysical App
  • Trope Workshop:RPG Rapture
  • Trope Workshop:Shield Slinger
  • Trope Workshop:Titled Superpowers
  • Trope Workshop:Words act more than Actions

Lequinni (1 candidate)

  • Trope Workshop:Strip club

Looney Toons (1 candidate)

  • Trope Workshop:And Stay Out!

Tbeholder (1 candidate)

  • Trope Workshop:Faction Mechanics

Umbire the Phantom (2 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Interactive Title Screen
  • Trope Workshop:Plague of Locusts

Work on grammar-checking Kuma's trope candidates has been very slow, but it is taking place.

Kuma (talkcontribs)

Thank you for acknowledging that, I have been using Grammarly Premium and a proofreader for two of them so far. I am waiting to get enough money to get the others proof read as well.

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

Righteous - I'll move in a last candidate from my userspace.

Lequinni (talkcontribs)

I launched one trope workshop for Strip club after the discussion that emerged in the talk about Bikini Bar. I think it need an edit pass and more examples?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Oh, probably. Best to ask that on the candidate's discussion page and ping both Looney Tunes and myself so that it doesn't get lost in the crowd. (I know both of us are busy with RL things at the moment, so a separate ping would help.)

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

I'll do the same with my candidates.

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

Alright, so I have Interactive Title Screen and Animalistic Abomination - about to start a third candidate. Where's everyone else at?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

I'll take that as a request for an update... :)

We're still over double the "less than a dozen" that @Looney Toons suggested as ideal here, not counting what's queued for submission. The only way to fix this would be to actually work on the older tropes instead of starting new candidates.


Actually in the Trope Workshop

Inherited from TV Tropes and moved back to the Workshop for an overhaul (10 candidates):

  • Alto Villainess
  • Trope Workshop:Answering Echo
  • Could This Happen to You?
  • Trope Workshop:The Full Name Adventures
  • Heartbreaking in Hindsight
  • Ladyella
  • New House, New Problems
  • Not the Intended Use
  • Trope Workshop:Spell My Name with a "The"
  • Switch-Out Move

Agiletek (3 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Honorable Enemy Ace
  • Trope Workshop:Land of Shattered Empire
  • Trope Workshop:Literally Fearless

Goo Monster (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Hating What You Are Good At

Jlaw (2 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Adaptational Weakling
  • Trope Workshop:Toe-Tapping Melody (which is pretty close to launchable)

Kuma (4 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Chaos Control
  • Trope Workshop:Fantastic Tribulation
  • Trope Workshop:Power Systems
  • Trope Workshop:Realm Exclusive Effect

Looney Toons (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:One-Dollar Retainer

RivetVermin (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Enemy Switch-Out

Umbire the Phantom (3 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Animalistic Abomination
  • Trope Workshop:Interactive Title Screen
  • Trope Workshop:Stealth Mook


Queued for submission

Beta Log 86 (+1 candidate):

  • User:Beta Log 86/sandbox

Looney Toons (+3 candidates):

  • Filing Their Nails
  • Limited Time of Operation
  • Thirty Pieces of Silver

Umbire the Phantom (+2 candidates):

  • User:Umbire the Phantom/Freeze Frame
  • User:Umbire the Phantom/Word Salad Horror
Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

And work on older ones is something I can do. I can do an LT and keep stuff in my userpage to move over only once I believe they're near-ready to launch anyway - that way, I can get the necessary eyes on it for corrections and improvements before it's shoved on out.

Lequinni (talkcontribs)

In my opinion Hating What You Are Good At, Fantastic Tribulation and Realm Exclusive Effect are just a grammar check away to be ready to launch. Pretty clear concepts and enough examples. Two of them have claimed to need new names but I think the ones they have are good enough.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

"Fantastic Tribulation" is the new name for that particular trope, so the "needs a new name" tag can be removed from that page.

Kuma (talkcontribs)

What about Power Systems?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Discussion about a single trope should be taking place on that trope's talk page.

Kuma (talkcontribs)

I apologize; it's just that people are talking about one trope or another being ready to launch and I wanted to know if another on the list is ready for it, too.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

It's been a while since I posted one of these lists. Other than stuff we inherited from TV Tropes, only @Agiletek has three trope candidates in the workshop. Unusually, @Looney Toons doesn't have a candidate in the workshop at the moment -- maybe he's run out of ideas. :)


Old pages from TV Tropes (11):

  • Alternate History Screw
  • Anarchy Is Chaos
  • Awful British Sex Comedy
  • Clarke's Law for Girls' Toys
  • Dodgy Time Stamp
  • Trope Workshop:The Full Name Adventures
  • "Grand Theft Auto" Effect
  • Megane
  • Montage Parody
  • Postponed Question
  • Video Collage

Proposed by User:Agiletek (3)

  • Trope Workshop:Enlistment-Ending Minor Malaise
  • Trope Workshop:Honorable Enemy Ace
  • Trope Workshop:Land of Shattered Empire

Proposed by User:GalaxySagi777 (1)

  • Trope Workshop:Karma Overdose

Proposed by User:Ilikecomputers (1)

  • Trope Workshop:Truck-kun

Proposed by User:Jlaw (1)

  • Trope Workshop:Crane Game Gag

Proposed by User:Kuma (2)

  • Trope Workshop:Chaos Control
  • Trope Workshop:Power Systems

Proposed by User:Robkelk (1)

  • Trope Workshop:Planet Killer

Proposed by User:VinnieTheBaggySweater (1)

  • Trope Workshop:Heroic Dimples

Proposed by User:Umbire the Phantom (2)

  • Trope Workshop:Interactive Title Screen
  • Trope Workshop:Stealth Mook

Proposed by User:GentlemensDame883 (1)

  • Trope Workshop:Orbital Bombardment

The other five pages are in various users' sandboxes.

@Agiletek @GalaxySagi777 @Ilikecomputers @Jlaw @Kuma @Robkelk @VinnieTheBaggySweater @Umbire the Phantom @GentlemensDame883

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

Unusually, @Looney Toons doesn't have a candidate in the workshop at the moment -- maybe he's run out of ideas. :)

Phbbbt. Just for that, this comes out of my sandbox.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)
Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

And finally, this one. That's my three, now I can work on the other dozen quietly in the background.

GalaxySagi777 (talkcontribs)

I'm sorry, but what that does mean? Is that limiting edits or how many tropes we can make?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

It's limiting how many tropes we can make at a time -- we can have three each.

The rule was put in place because some people were flooding the trope workshop, making it nearly impossible to work on anything. We picked "three" as the number that we thought a single person could concentrate on at one time -- get the first three trope candidates finished before working on the next three.

GalaxySagi777 (talkcontribs)

oh okay.

Jlaw (talkcontribs)

While I do want to add more, I want to think about what needs to be added.

Ilikecomputers (talkcontribs)

If a page in my sandbox has the "Trope Workshop" category, does that count as a trope in the workshop, which will go towards the three trope limit?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

No, a trope in a troper's sandbox does not count as a trope in the workshop.

Kuma (talkcontribs)

Well, um, I don't know how to access my Sandbox. I would like to know for the future.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

User:Kuma/sandbox should get you there, if there isn't a "Sandbox" link at the top of the page beside the link to your preferences page.

Kuma (talkcontribs)

Thank you, I made a sandbox thanks to the red link.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

It's been a while since I last did this...

As of this posting, we have 15 candidates in the Trope Workshop. Sorted by the Troper who created them, they are:

Inherited from TV Tropes and moved back to the Workshop for an overhaul (9 candidates):

  • Alternate History Screw
  • Anarchy Is Chaos
  • Awful British Sex Comedy
  • Clarke's Law for Girls' Toys
  • Dodgy Time Stamp
  • Megane
  • Montage Parody
  • Postponed Question
  • Video Collage

Proposed by User:Jlaw (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Bottle and Switch Episode (has a vote in progress as of this posting)

Proposed by User:Kuma (2 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Be A Mon (has a vote in progress as of this posting)
  • Trope Workshop:Chaos Control (has a delete proposal pending as of this posting)

Proposed by User:Looney Toons (2 candidates):

  • Trope Workshop:Apotheosis
  • Trope Workshop:Killing the Goose That Lays the Golden Eggs

Proposed by User:RivetVermin (1 candidate):

  • Trope Workshop:Single Purpose Planet
Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

As I noted off-line, I gave Megane the required rewrite, although it is very sparse on examples. Since you were okay with it and no one has offered a negative opinion, I'm taking it out of the Workshop.

Jlaw (talkcontribs)

I think we can launch Killing the Goose that Lays the Golden Eggs.


Trying to figure out what's a good alternative name for "Adaptational Nice Guy" since it's the opposite of "Adaptational Jerkass".

GalaxySagi777 (talkcontribs)

There's someone on Tropedia doing it, they're calling it "Adaptational Niceness". Try that maybe?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

If this is intended to be a counterpoint t a "Jerkass" trope, then a "Nice Guy" name of some sort would keep the naming symmetry.

Assuming, of curse, that people care abut that.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

Go ahead and start a vote on the Discussion page for Killing the Goose, if you want, Jlaw.

In the mean time I've added a basic starter set of examples to Video Collage and gotten that out of the Workshop.

Dozens of "new" entries in the Trope Workshop

8
Robkelk (talkcontribs)

I just added the Trope Workshop category to the "Trope Needs Examples" template, on the logic that a trope with zero examples should never have left the workshop - or TVT's YKTTW section.

Some of these might be Useful Notes that are misidentified as tropes. If you see a page that should be a Useful Note, go ahead and fix it by changing the header from "Trope" to "Useful Notes" and removing the examples section altogether.

The other pages... well, it would be nice to have at least one example on each page, to show that it isn't Too Rare To Trope. Maybe the examples are hiding in the trope description; maybe somebody needs to provide an example or two.

Jlaw (talkcontribs)

Got it. I was wondering what happened lol

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

I just took care of some obvious Useful Notes. Four pages down, 44 to go.

Jlaw (talkcontribs)

Is there an easy way to copy all the categories into trope workshop pages as a blank template?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)
Jlaw (talkcontribs)

Thank you!

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Sorry, I forgot to mention this:

Just because they're tagged with the Trope Workshop category doesn't mean they've been moved back into the Trope workshop. These are still "live" tropes and should be treated as such, including not adding headers for empty sections.

Again, this is my fault for not mentioning that sooner.

Jlaw (talkcontribs)

Okay; I'll keep that in mind when adding new examples or rewriting them!

Summary by Looney Toons

Solved.

Goo Monster (talkcontribs)

The Create a new page button is broken.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

Okay, I just went to the page, entered a name, clicked the button, and got a new page. So, necessary questions since your initial report is lacking in detail:

  1. Did you enter a page name first?
  2. What browser did you use?
  3. Does your browser have any kind of Javascript-blocking active?
Goo Monster (talkcontribs)

I was being stupid and didn't think to enter the page name first.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

Okay, cool. That's far better news than the alternative. And don't feel stupid, I've done the same thing a few times myself.

Proposal: Trope Launch Requires Approval for Grammar and Markup

1
Summary by Robkelk

The proposal never went anywhere.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

The newly-launched page One-way Entrance is practically illiterate, with such golden sentences as:

H.H. Holmes's "Murder Castle," which not only has this trope happens, secret passages, fake walls, and hidden rooms, which are all design to kill his guests.

Many examples are incomplete sentence fragments with essentially random structure and verb tenses, along with missing words. The article as a whole is also lacking consistent punctuation, almost universally lacks proper italics around work names, has unlinked and misspelled work names, and generally looks like it was written by a drunken fifth-grader. It is an embarrassment.

I propose that no trope be allowed to leave the workshop until an Admin or a user we have vetted for this purpose has certified that it is written in proper, grammatical English, that its contents are correctly spelled throughout, and is marked up properly for links and style.

So, about copyright issues...

7
Summary by Looney Toons

Questions answered.

Utini501 (talkcontribs)

I know that this site has copyright policies that don't allow straight-up copypastes from TV Tropes. Not complaining about that since I whole-heartedly agree with the rules, but how does this work in terms of tropes themselves? I've been wanting to make pages for tropes we currently aren't covering like Moth Menace, Wicked Wasps, and Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist, but do the copyright policies disallow creation of these tropes? I just want a clear understanding before going through with what I've considered to be a pretty big project.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Tropes cannot be copyrighted, but expressions of tropes can be copyrighted. So what we need to do is take the fundamental idea and re-state it in a completely different way - not a sentence-for-sentence re-write of what's at TVT, but a completely different approach. This is a chance to show off your creative writing skills! (EDIT: This, by the way, is why some of our newer tropes have different names than the equivalents at TVT.)

That said, we have a huge backlog of trope candidates at the moment and not enough people to do the work in shepherding them to either the wild world of tropes or the bit-bucket. (I for one prefer to avoid the bit-bucket.) As a troper, I'd prefer to not see any more candidates until we can get at least another dozen or so candidates through the process - after that, we should be good.

Utini501 (talkcontribs)

Gotcha. I don't know how much I can really do to help, but I'll try to flesh out some of those tropes that are currently in the workshop.h

Arlo James Barnes (talkcontribs)

> This, by the way, is why some of our newer tropes have different names than the equivalents at TVT.

That's a good thing, in my opinion, given TVT's apparently greater propensity to expand category:Esoteric Trope Names compared to ATT.

Utini501 (talkcontribs)

So it's been a few months, and I've helped get a few tropes out of the workshop while a few others (Beary Cute, Dive Kick, Extendable Arms, Signature Colors) are basically ready to launch. Would it be okay for me to start launching some new tropes of my own, or should we wait longer?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

I think we can squeeze another one in... (says the mod who just squeezed one of his own in)

Utini501 (talkcontribs)

As long as it's okay, I'll get straight to work! And don't worry: I've already done a lot of preliminary work on the one I'm proposing in my sandbox, so I don't see it spending a lot of time in the workshop.

Before I move these back into the Trope Workshop...

5
Robkelk (talkcontribs)
Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

Hm. My opinions:

1. Maybe 2. Yes 3. No 4. No 5. No

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Thanks. I've removed the "Needs More Info" tag from 3, 4, and 5, and am moving 2 back to the workshop.

Any other opinions on Phlebotinum Dependence?

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

It feels like it needs something more to me. Not sure what.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

It can wait until the next batch. There's another half-dozen tropes that I didn't ask about...

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

I think I've gone through all of the tropes from the fork with TV Tropes that still have the {{tropestub}} tag and described what I think needs to be done with them on their talk pages... except for Ladyella, which I have no idea what if anything to do with.

If tropers can act on these suggestions reasonably quickly - or tell me where I'm off-base with my ideas - then we can get the Trope Workshop down to something approaching manageable within a month.

Proposal: Auto-fail/delete if untouched for six months

29
Summary by Looney Toons

Debated, voted, implemented.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

I am amused that I must start this post with almost exactly the same language that Rob used for his proposal below: No matter how many trope candidates we've launched in 2021 and early 2022, we just can't get the number of candidates below 40, let alone down to something manageable -- which, considering how many active Tropers we have editing ATT, is IMHO less than a dozen.

Outside of pages still in the main namespace which are displayed in the workshop due to the inclusion of the Trope Workshop category in the {{tropestub}} template, the majority of pages in the Workshop are old -- some were created a year ago, many others a year and a half or even over two years ago. We have elsewhere stated that pages stay in the Workshop until they're ready to leave, but that assumed that people were actually working on them. We have far too many "old" pages that have been ignored for six, eight, twelve or more months. A good example would be The Bully is a Nerd: Proposed in December 2019, and except for an edit I made in June 2021 to fix some grammar and add a link, it was last edited in January 2021 -- and the last time before that was July 2020.

This is ridiculous.

I propose that if a trope sits untouched for six months it gets deleted, regardless of how close it is to being "ready". We have far too many candidates that have lingered for literally years because no one works on them. I have decided that I don't care if people talk about what could be done to make a candidate work -- if no effort is actually expended to improve it, then it gets shown the door. To clarify, minor edits like grammar and adding links don't count. If no one has done anything to substantially move a trope candidate close to launch in six months, it dies.

Pinging everyone for votes: @Agiletek @GentlemensDame883 @Goo Monster @HeneryVII @HornyLikeIAmA14YearOldGirl @Lequinni‎ @RivetVermin @Umbire the Phantom @Utini501 @Labster @Looney Toons @GethN7 @Robkelk @QuestionableSanity @Derivative @SelfCloak

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

To clarify, minor edits like grammar and adding links don't count.

In some cases (from more than one trope proposer), poor grammar is the only thing stopping a trope from being launched. Do we delete these tropes simply because an editor hasn't had time to get to them?

EDIT: In a related note, we need more editors.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

The point is, if no one cares to edit them for six months, they might as well be dead anyway. Obviously an admin might, at their discretion, decide to save a trope. But the point is to motivate the tropers to do the fixing. I mean, TVT shoves their new tropes through in three days. Is it really so much to ask that someone do something constructive more often than once every half-year?

So yeah. It doesn't matter if it's one misspelling away from being launchable. If no one gives a damn to fix it and it sits for six months, it deserves deletion.

EDIT: Amazon's fresh out.

Goo Monster (talkcontribs)

I'd rather not. I have trope nominations and if they are going to get deleted, I'd at least like longer notice to save a copy so I could come back with it once I have more examples.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

If you can't work on them for six months and need to preserve them, move them into your sandbox and comment out the various Workshop markups. The Workshop is not a place to park stuff and forget about it.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Agreed. If someone doesn't care enough about his or her own writing to work on it, why should anyone else care?

Everyone, it would be best to make copies of your drafts now, just in case.

RivetVermin (talkcontribs)

Maybe give out a "1 week till deletion" notification, pinging the original author and a few other contributors first, as the deadline might encourage them to sit down for the ten minutes needed to get it past the finish line?

Goo Monster (talkcontribs)

I'm content with a one week notice

Agiletek (talkcontribs)

1 week might be a bit too little considering not every user visits every day. 2 weeks perhaps?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

It's because not every user visits every day that we give an entire week instead of a day or two.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

One week is more than enough. If they're not editing at least once a week, it's unlikely they have enough interest to be invested in trope creation. Otherwise we can use the same argument to keep extending the warning until we're right back where we started.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

That's a reasonable suggestion and something we're already doing on two tropes currently outside of the Workshop. I have no problems incorporating that into the proposed new rule.

GentlemensDame883 (talkcontribs)

I think 6-month auto-fail with a further 1-week warning is fair. If a trope in the making has been sitting idle for that long without any notice of extenuating circumstances from the maker, and said maker can't be bothered even with a week's notice to drop by and do something, even to beg for an extension, it's highly unlikely that the maker is going to come back for it again.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

Okay, then, let's phrase the proposed rule thusly:

Trope candidates, unlike diamonds, are not forever. Candidates will live in the Workshop for as long as it takes to whip them into shape, but that means that they must be actively worked on. "Actively worked on" means tropers are editing the candidate to improve it and render it suitable for launch. Comments made in the talk page about how to improve (or save) the page are not working on the candidate; they are chatter that does not affect the state of the candidate. Only actual edits to the candidate itself count as working on it.
If a candidate sits untouched for six months or more, it is considered to be abandoned. "Untouched" means no editing activity. (At their discretion, ATT staff may choose to discount trivial changes made in that time -- "trivial" in this context being, for example, edits along the line of adding a single link or fixing the grammar of a single sentence or paragraph. This is to discount "token" edits whose only purpose is to forestall "abandoned" status.)
Abandoned candidates will be marked with the {{delete}} template announcing a one-week warning and giving a specific date and time for their deletion. A notice will also be placed on the candidate's talk page repeating this warning and CC'ing all admins and active editors. If no effort is made to reignite development of the candidate, it will be deleted at the end of the one-week grace period.
The only thing that counts as rescuing a trope from abandoned status is further genuine development of the trope. Again, "token" edits which do not substantially improve the candidate and move it toward launch do not count and may be ignored by the admins. Protests and suggestions in the candidate's talk page also do not count. If you want to save a candidate, don't talk about it -- work on it.

How does that sound? Does anyone want to offer any amendments or changes?

RivetVermin (talkcontribs)

Nah, looks good