Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Headscratchers/Season 6

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Headscratchers for Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Spoilers abound.

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The Ressurection Retcon

  • Yeah, snappy title, I know. Now, to the point. Go watch The Zeppo. Why? It shoots huge ass holes in all of Season Six. The first problem is the complete lack of an afterlife being mentioned in that episode. The guys crawl out of the ground, rotting, sure, but no worse for wear, their souls back in place. So, they weren't in Heaven for a few reasons (like being scum) or they would have been mopey. They weren't in a hell dimension or else there would have been some psychological scaring, seeing how time moves much faster in them it could have been a century or more for them in one. So, where the fuck were they? Where did this easy resurrection spell come from and where did it go? Couldn't Willow have used this MUCH EASIER spell, used a spell to heal Buffy's rotting or perhaps, oh, I don't know, bring back the Slayer right after she died? Sure, only Xander knows about it, but it must have come up, at least in his mind. But that isn't the biggest problem. Oh no, the biggest problem is the lovely little thing known as Tara's murder. Ra refuses to bring her back (fuck you Ra). So Willow goes all genocidal and stuff. But, the spell seen in The Zeppo could bring back people who died of gunshot wounds. Not only that, but someone with no magical training can do it. In fact, this shoots holes in just about every death besides for Anya and Jenny (they lost the corpse that time and didn't know about the spell yet for the other one). Joyce? Easy spell, back again without the Monkey's Paw side effects. Tara? Same thing. Buffy? Do it as soon as she's dead. Cordelia? Same thing. There's no way Wolfram & Hart doesn't have that spell. Wesley? Same. Oh, and just for the hell of it, lets say they were lacking their souls after all. YOU HAVE A REINSOULING SPELL. USE IT.
    • Maybe that spell wasn't a true resurrection spell, buta cheap imitation (like what Dawn used to bring Joyce back temporarily). Those spells don't bring the person back. Who knows what would've happened if the brought Buffy back with one of those easy ressurection spells? Also, those guys were highly unstable. One of the first things they wanted to do was detonate a bomb at school, and they cared little when they started being Killed Off for Real. It's possible these guys were psychos in life, but who knows (doubt it, they seemed rowdy, but few people are crazy enough to make a bomb). As for souls, there's no evidence that the ensouling spell even works on beings other than vampires. Or even vampires other than Angel for that matter, since he's the only one we ever see them use it on, even when they clearly wanted to ensoul other vampires, like Spike or Darla.
    • Yeah, they weren't really being resurrected as much as animated. Come on, apart from the main villain, all of the guys looked like they were still rotting corpses? Why were they not mopey or anything? Because they are really just animated corpses with personalities functioning from the residue of their brains; presumably their souls are still in the afterlife. Think of them a lot like vampires.
      • The spell used in the Zeppo required the stars to be proper alignment. Presumably the alignment happens annually but we really don't know. The ressurection was less than perfect also, it didn't physically heal any of their wounds. They were basically sentient zombies so I might be a little upset if you did that to me. As far as the after life goes we don't really know much about how it works. We know Buffy was a GREAT person and died a mystical death and went to heaven. We know we literally kicked Angel into hell. We don't have any proof that you get punished for leading a bad life. It's possible that the Buffyverse has a purgatory.
      • One of the big things is that it left their bodies the same. As we saw, Buffy was already half decomposed by the time they got to her, if they had used the same spell (which again, is situational and we don't know how often the star alignment thing is), she'd have been a walking corpse.
  • An aside, about the statement that they couldn't have been where Buffy was or they'd have been all mopey. Buffy was at peace following a life where she had -- at least recently -- felt constantly beset by one horrible thing after another, so much so that she briefly went catatonic to get away from that. If none of the resurrected guys were all that miserable in life, coming back from an amorphous peaceful dimension muight not be as traumatic for them.
    • I doubt they had souls. They didn't act like it. The first thing they wanted to do upon being resurrected was blow up the school. Granted, they didn't seem like nice guys before they died, but I doubt they were quite that wreckless. In other words, they were kinda like vampires, except without the predatory demon inside them, thus not as hostile, but still nasty.


A New Slayer is (Not) Called

  • After Buffy dies, one would think that a new slayer would be called in her place. However, as we learn for certain in Season 7, there seems to be no such Slayer. This could be because Buffy has already died once, and now only the Slayer who has never died (Faith) can be the one to call the next one with her death. But if that is the case, then why, in Episode 12, Season 7, does Buffy say that the next girl could be called with her death? That would mean that she's either lying to the girls in order to make a point, or is ignorant of the fact that her death can no longer call another Slayer. And isn't it a bit strange that she's never thought of the fact that there seems to be no third Slayer if it's the latter case? Worse, isn't it strange that Giles hasn't mentioned it or shown any curiosity about it that we're aware of?
    • Here's what I think, because for the longest time this bugged me: Buffy already died when she was drowned, and her line carried onto Kendra. She was no longer the Slayer, but she was brought back, powers intact. After Kendra is killed, Faith becomes the Slayer with the lineage. If Faith were killed, then the line would carry on and the next slayer would come. The guys who made the first Slayer probably didn't account for one to come back to life, and didn't make it where the powers transfered. The powers just manifest in the next Slayer. That's why Buffy still has Slayer powers. Buffy probably just isn't aware that she won't lead to more Slayers. Also, at the time she had come back(Season 6) everyone was focusing more on personal problems. Giles was also worrying about Buffy not being able to stand on her own feet, and because of his attachment to her as a father figure, the thought of another Slayer probably didn't cross his mind. In Season 7, he is more worried about Willow losing control and the First wreaking havoc. But then agian, he may have known. Giles isn't exactly above keeping secrets.
    • The accepted explanation is that Faith is the one holding the Slayer lineage, although Season 7 doesn't seem to recognize it. Buffy even makes a comment about how all of the potentials will be killed, and then Faith, and then her. She even comments later about how one of the potentials will become the next Slayer if she dies. It's one thing for her to think like this, but even the 1st Evil seems to act this way.
      • Right. The First kills all the potentials; with no potentials, when it kills Faith no new slayer is called. The slayer line would be extinguished forever (as opposed to whatever normally happens there are no potentials when the slayer dies) if the last slayer alive is one who isn't part of the line any longer.
        • Remember that an attempt is made on Faith's life -- by a fellow inmate with a Bringer knife -- before she even escapes from prison, during AtS season 4. The First Evil doesn't really need to kill Faith in any specific order, merely to make sure that all the Potentials and Faith die sometime. So long as the current holder of the Slayer line dies with no Potentials to succeed her, the Slayer line breaks. The only one the First Evil can't kill is Buffy, because her being alive at the same time as another Slayer is what's causing the imbalance in the Slayer line that's giving the First Evil the chance to escape in the first place. Presumably Buffy's scheduled to die last, after the Hellmouth is already open and the imbalance is no longer necessary.
    • Buffy's first death and resurrection were natural, and while enough to cause a new slayer to be called, she was really only "mostly" dead, still having brain activity, and still the energies/power of the Slayer. As the power had never left her, she still had it when she was brought back. Separated from the Slayer line (and thus her death would not bring a new slayer), but still with the power. Her later death and resurrection were mystical however, and she was very, very, dead. With the slayer power likely gone from her body altogether, the ritual that brought he back had to draw from the Slayer power to restore her powers along with her life (likely part of the reason they had to use this particular ritual/spell, which sounded designed to bring special/magically-imbued warriors back, otherwise Buffy may be returned, but not her powers), thus reintegrating her with the Slayer line, meaning her death would again call another slayer.
    • Maybe Buffy just didn't care. While she instantly recognizes what Faith is neither she, nor Giles, seemed at all interested in finding Kendra's replacement. A bigger head scratcher is why does the Watcher's Council have such poor communication skills. You'd think that the entire Council would be aware of who was in posession of the Slayer.
      • The Watcher's Council did know who Faith was. Remember that Faith's original Watcher was killed in Boston by Kakistos, before she came to Sunnydale. Giles is her second Watcher, and Wesley is her third. Apparently the Watcher's Council was on top of her very shortly after Kendra died, or possibly even before Kendra died for a training period of some months as a Potential, which would mirror (or better) the amount of lag time that Merrick needed to find Buffy after her predecessor kicked it.

Dawns Vampy Classmates

  • In "All the Way", how can Dawns classmates; who are vamps, attend school in the day.
    • All Dawn ever says is that she recognizes the boys from a couple of (presumably evening) parties. She might assume that they go to her school, but it's never confirmed that they actually do. Alternately, they may have been turned recently enough that Dawn would remember seeing them around the school, even if they're not there anymore.
    • For that matter its actually possible for them to enter and leave the school building during the daytime; the school basement has a sewer access. Obviously they can't attend class regularly, because windows, but Dawn could still potentially see them around during free period and such.
      • Weren't the students that Willow found dead in the A/V room during season 1's 'Prophecy Girl' killed by a vampire attack in the daytime?

Buffy and Dawn Don't Have Wallets

  • This is probably the tiniest IJBM ever, but here we go: Season Six, "Tabula Rasa". The gang loses their memory, Willow gets the idea of looking in their wallets for ID. But Buffy and Dawn don't have wallets. Seriously? I know it's to set up the Joan/Umad joke, but come on. Dawn maybe, but Buffy's an adult with photo ID and bank-cards.
    • Which she didn't necessarily bring with her. She doesn't drive, so she doesn't need to make sure to have her license on her when out and about, and I doubt she was planning to buy anything at the magic shop.
    • The real question we should ask ourselves is: If the gang bothered to look through their person for possible locations for a wallet, why did none of them find the black crystal thingie that gave them amnesia in the first place? Sure some of them might've stopped looking after finding their wallets, but I believe Giles' was right in his coat pocket. How could he miss that?
      • Giles apparently did find his ID. Remember, he still calls himself 'Rupert Giles'. Heck, his name would also have been on the shop papers and airline ticket, and we saw him find those on-camera.
        • It's the same reason Anya calls herself Anya, Willow calls herself Willow, Xander calls himself Alexander, etc. They all had their wallets with them and so could read the names off their ID. The only two people who didn't are Buffy (who doesn't drive) and Spike (who doesn't have ID because he's legally dead). Well, Dawn didn't have a wallet either, but she did have her name on her jacket.
      • Willow probably did find the black crystal, but having no memory probably thought "Oh, a black cyrstal" and got on with things.
      • What? Willow was the only one carrying a crystal, the spell just got overpowered as too much Lithe's bramble got burned. What made you think they all had a crystal? The only crystal falls out of Willow's pocket and is stepped on by Xander ending the spell.

Joyce's Life Insurance

  • Part of the plot in the episodes where Buffy is resurrected is to use the Buffybot to pass off as Buffy so people wouldn't know she's dead. Otherwise Buffy's dad would take Dawn away. Yet later, they mention collecting her life insurance. How the hell did they collect the life insurance without letting people know she was dead?
    • It's Joyce's life insurance that they collected, not Buffy's.

Willow's Name is Mud in Season Six

  • Am I the only one terribly TERRIBLY disturbed by the way everyone treats Willow in season 6? She took great risk to use the return spell on Buffy and was egged on by the other scoobies to do so, and yet Giles lays down the hammer on her... HARD. They would all be dead a few episodes into season 6 if not for Willow's spell. Further, Willow's "problem" with magic only became an actual problem when everyone treated her like shit for harmless spells she cast for the benefit of everyone else. She pulled Buffy back at great expense to herself. She cast the decorations spell for Anya and Xander just to make them happy. We never see her just casting spells willy-nilly for her own selfish purposes. Yes, she made the wrong choice using the forget spell (both times) but the way everyone treated her was wrong. Her forays into the magic drug at Rack's only happened because Tara treated her like shit because she cast the decoration spell. Am I missing something here?
    • It's season six. After "Tabula Rasa", Season six sucks, and everything the characters do is just to make excuses to pour more and more angst into the craptacular season. I think they were trying to lean on the success of Angel by making the show Darker and Edgier, without bothering to have decent Character Development, the thing that made Darker and Edgier work in Angel.
    • Umm, the decoration spell wasn't so much the problem as Willow erasing some of Tara's memories. Given the fact that Tara has past issues with being mentally tampered with, and, as she mentions during "Once More With Feeling," she can't be sure this was the first time Willow did this, it is kind of a What the Hell, Hero? moment.
      • The best way I can describe the problem was Willow using spells when it would have been easier - and probably safer - to do things the mundane way. The episode where she first wipes Tara's memory, "All the Way", also has her almost using a spell in the Bronze that would shift anyone not Dawn's age into an alternate dimension. With the resurrection spell, it was still pretty dangerous, regardless of whether it worked or not. The only Scoobies that knew what would happen were Willow and Tara, and even then Tara was freaked, while Giles was upset because she'd taken such a big risk. What if something had gone wrong? As for her not casting spells for selfish reasons, she doesn't most of the time, except for the "my will be done" spell from "Something Blue" and all the fooling around she and Amy did in "Smashed".
    • I hated the way Willow was treated in season 6 and felt like a great deal of her problems were helped along by Giles and Tara's attitudes. For one thing they never offered any explanation of why what she was doing was bad. Tara was shown as to be upset by Willow's magic use before the arguement that led to the memory erasure. But she never tried to convince Willow it was bad. She just told her it was and expected Willow to give up something she plainly loved without further explanation. And Giles was an ass. He spends most of his time in season 6 ready to leave and when he isn't he's berating Willow. Who was the Scooby Gang's big weapon without Buffy and he certainly never expected her to be brought back.
      • In Tara's defense, she did try to tell Willow why her use of magic was wrong. Part of the proplem was, Willow kept erasing Tara's memories of the arguments. As for Giles, he had a point that necromancy was dark magic. If Willow couldn't see that, it really doesn't bode well for her.
      • Very dark. Committing a blood sacrifice in order to call upon the spirit of a god of the underworld (Osiris, to be precise) in order to tear a soul free from the Afterlife and bind it back into a mortal vessel is some SERIOUSLY black mojo. But it's not just the necromancy and the memory erasure. Willow's problem is something that's been hinted at way back in season 3, and remained consistent: it isn't that she uses magic, it's that she abuses it. It's her answer for every problem. It's her solution for any emotional turmoil. Need party decorations? Magic! Trying to find a friend lost in the spooky house? Magic! Boyfriend left you? Magic! Sexually attracted to a good friend who you don't want to be? Magic! The ensouling Angel spell opened a gateway to power she did not have the discipline to properly manage, and people have been calling her out on her abuse of it since way back at Xander telling her they don't need a love spell to not be attracted to each other. She just has never listened.
        • Willow knows herself. Maybe she just thinks "If I could stop making out with you just because I wanted to stop making out with you I'd have never started in the place." It did take Cordy being impaled to get them to stop. The image of a friend with a pipe through the gut every time your lips touch would have a pretty powerful de-lusting affect IMO. So basically I think she was RIGHT, they did need more than simple willpower.
          • That's the problem. She assumes that she knows herself and that she knows best. When she's wrong and refuses to admit it, like her reliance on magic and occasional overuse of it, she bites off more than she can chew.
            • Let's also not forget that Willow would turn to magic and its uses with absolutely ZERO regard for the opinions and feelings of others involved. That spell that Willow wanted to do to stop loving Xander? Willow says outright, "I thought it would go better if you didn't know" to Xander's face! Willow's spell in the episode 'Wild at Heart' presumably means to stop Oz and Veruca finding love or peace with each other but with the ambiguous wording, it could very easily have resulted in neither finding it period with anybody. Willow even invokes Hell within the spell itself, "Let Oz and Veruca's deceitful hearts be broken. This way. I conjure thee by the saracen queen And the name of hell. Let them find no love or solace. Let them find no peace as well." It is one thing to try and defend Willow but since Season 2 even, Willow has shown many, many times that she has an affinity towards darker magics (see Willow's "can we pretend it's dangerous?" to Anya in S3), turns to magic to solve turbulent issues in her own life, and does not bother to consult other parties that may be affected by said spells.
          • Willow is well aware that magic is a balancing act - she demonstrates this at the beginning of 'Buffy vs. Dracula' when her spell to ignite the barbecue causes a massive rain shower. She's the one that tells the rest of the Scooby Gang. Using it for everything would eventually throw the universe out of whack, not to mention cheapen the "mundane" everyday tasks she cheats her way out of. Casting a spell to wash the dishes or decorate a house or even dress yourself may seem nifty but that's not magic's intended purpose. Willow is well aware of this and still chooses to flagrantly ignore the rules despite repeated (and warranted) warnings.
          • The issue with Tara was that she had a bit of a controlling streak in her, a need to be right and to be the more knowledgeable one. Take 'Forever', when Dawn, out of her mind with grief, was wanting to resurrect Joyce. Willow and Tara were trying to disuade her, with Willow trying to convince Dawn that it may not even be possible to do so. Tara, meanwhile, was lecturing Dawn (Again, a stubborn teenager who was blinded by her grief and not in the correct frame of mind to understand ethics and morality) on how resurrecting Joyce was WRONG. Fair enough, up until the point where she pretty much browbeat Willow into agreeing with her position. Add that on to some of the other events later in season 5 (such as when Tara lets slip that she doesn't like Willow being so powerful, and Willow stating that Tara makes her feel like the junior partner, that Tara has a need to be 'knowledge woman', and it's not hard to reach the interpretation that Tara was, perhaps subconsciously, trying to keep Willow from outstripping her in fear that Willow would not need her any more.
            • There's really no overwhelming evidence that Tara's controlling. She's actually very shy. Tara was hardly browbeating Willow into agreeing with her, since Willow already did. Also, Tara never said that she doesn't like Willow being more powerful. She stated that Willow is powerful. Given that this is the season where Willow uses magic to erase Tara's memories of various fights, it's probably a good thing that Tara's worried that Willow might be getting too powerful too fast.
  • Part of the issue is the hypocrisy and inconsistency of the season. Willow messing with people's minds: BAD! Xander having Amy cast a love spell in season 2? FUNNY!!! Xander screws around with magic and summons Sweet, he's not only instantly forgiven, it's never brought up again. This in spite of the fact that it not only caused severe damage to the Scoobies' interpersonal relationships, but it also resulted in the deaths of at least 2 people. Nothing Willow did at that point had cost a life, was anywhere NEAR that ethically questionable. Yet somehow, she was BAD for decorating a room with magic and Xander indirectly kills two people with magic, and it's never brought up again. Willow erasing Tara's memories? EVIL!! Angel doing the same thing TWICE to his own people, that SAME YEAR? No Problem!!! Willow using magic to find Dawn? BAD AND WRONG!!! Tara using magic to find Willow and Xander 4 EPISODES PREVIOUSLY? A-Okay. (And yes, I know Willow's plans to shift people into another dimension were overkill, but Tara's objections were not to the particulars of Willow's plan, but rather to the principle of using magic to find someone itself. Doesn't change the fact that she did the same thing herself not even two months previously.) In short, the entire 'addiction' arc can be summed up as 'Willow is bad and out of control for doing the same things other characters did!!' Bad, bad, BAD writing.
    • Point by point
      "Xander having Amy cast a love spell in season 2? FUNNY!!!" That was never funny. As I recall Xander almost died as a result.
      "Xander screws around with magic and summons Sweet, he's not only instantly forgiven" Xander did something stupid that he though was harmless because he was too stupid to know better. If anything they should be mad at Anya for not clearly labeling the thing and making sure people didn't get their hands on it.
      "Angel doing the same thing TWICE to his own people, that SAME YEAR? No Problem!!!" One of those was a backfired spell to restore memories, and the other saved Connor. Connor always complained about them using magic, and Wesley was not too happy when he found out about the second. So these aren't the same situation and are looked upon as being bad.
      "Willow using magic to find Dawn? BAD AND WRONG!!!...'Willow is bad and out of control for doing the same things other characters did!!" The real difference in all of this is the attitude. Magic is Willow's go to. She uses it for everything. What the previous post amounts to is saying that someone who has an occasional beer doesn't have any right to point out that someone else is an alcoholic.
    • Xander using the love spell to get back at Anya is also the point at which Giles stops trusting Xander around magic period, remember. He's reluctant to let Xander have anything to do with magic - which is why Xander usually got relegated to snack detail; it's the one thing Giles trusted him not to screw up.
      • This really isn't true. After the love spell, Xander really didn't have much of an interest in magic. Xander using magic was pretty much a nonentity for Giles, except to eye roll when Xander accidentally set a magic book on fire.
      • After the love spell Xander pretty much puts himself on hiatus for ever touching magic again. (The Sweet incident is a separate Headscratchers for a reason). So Xander fucked it up, admitted to himself that he fucked it up, and went 'OK, I'm not going to fuck up like that again'. Willow kept fucking up with magic repeatedly and never checked herself until after she wrecked herself multiple times, that's the difference between Xander and Willow here.
        • Also Willow has never been studious about it. Shes just like "Oh you can do this so lets do it" When the Watchers council in season 5 asked her what level she was at she didn't know what they were talking about. I think Giles is somewhat to blame mind you, a door was opened he should have helped guide her in using magic responsibly not just using it willy nilly and whether someone wanted it or not. I mean the necromancy, she deliberately mislead them at what she would be doing. Then when Giles tells her that something like this could have destroyed her or unleash hell on Earth shes so blase about it.
        • I agree with some points and disagree with others. The decoration spell was a silly thing for Tara to get upset about, and she didn't really have a good reason against it besides "why do magic when you don't have to?", but Willow attempting to shift most of the Bronze into an alternate dimension for a second was definitely not a very good idea; Tara using a spell to find Willow and Xander was a far different circumstance when the town was under siege by vampires and Willow was drained from using exceptionally powerful magic. I also don't think that Giles should have reacted as he did; if it was any other resurrection, it would have been iffy, but she was resurrecting the Slayer, the girl who's saved the world more than a handful of times. She couldn't have known that Buffy was really at peace, and Giles didn't know that either; he called her stupid for "disrupting the natural cycle", but without Buffy, would the town have survived the ransacking that was taking place? Or any of the emergencies that come up later on? It wasn't just a matter of reviving Buffy, it was also a matter of bringing back the only person who can protect Sunnydale. So I'm siding against Giles on that one.
          • On the other hand, it wasn't like Buffy was the only person who could protect Sunnydale if it came down to it. Faith is a Vampire Slayer, too. At that point, she had more than a year to learn to control her behavior. Willow resurrecting Buffy had more to do with getting Buffy back than it did from protecting Sunnydale. That said, I agree that Willow had no way of knowing that Buffy was in heaven.
            • It's debatable how much of it was even about getting Buffy back, and how much was about being the one who brought Buffy back, for Willow. She's the most vocal about things not being right when Buffy returns, but she isn't vocal about concern for Buffy. Rather, the topic she keeps bringing up seems to be, "Where are my accolades? Why isn't she showering me with gratitude? Why isn't everyone telling me how great I am for doing this?" Willow performed very dark, very dangerous magic, and her behavior suggests her motivations placed her own personal ego-trip above the natural fabric of the world, and in the conversation with Giles where he went off on her the way he did, she was flying on the egotrip. Lines like "I thought you'd be impressed or something," and "I wasn't lucky. I was AMAZING." demonstrate just how full of herself she's really become.
  • Think about it on par with alcoholism or gambling addiction. Its fine, and completely socially acceptable and generally not harmful or self-destructive to have a drink or two every once in a while when you go out... It's another thing entirely when you can't get through the day without a drink. Willow's friends saw that she was overusing magic, and were expressing their concerns. Willow stubbornly (as most addicts do) refused to admit she had a problem, and continued to abuse magic more and more, to her friend's increasing concern. Their worries prove to be justified, when she goes dark-side and flays Warren. (Not to mention she was casting dark spells, and outright disrespecting Tara and breaching their trust when she altered her memory.)
    • ...The gang are also concerned since Willow is still relatively new to magic; she got very powerful very fast; contrast that with Giles (who knows first-hand how easy it can be to get in over your head from his Ripper days) and Tara who have been practising longer and are more experienced. Willow was fairly arrogant to disregard their warnings, she may have more power than them - but not neccesarily more wisdom or understanding; had she been willing to listen at that point, she could have learnt a lot. Though, likewise - Giles really should have taught her earlier on, when it was clear she was developing a strong interest to properly respect magic. He seemed to want to keep her away from it and protect her (because he knows its dangers), rather than enlighten her on them.
  • Tara getting mad about the party does seem silly if taken in isolation, but it's less about the party and more about the bigger picture, especially so soon after the resurrection spell. Tara isn't mad that Willow cast the party spell, she's mad that Willow's abusing magic in general, and the party spell was just a small matchstick that set off the larger flame.

Unsexy House-Smashing

  • Is it just me or is the Buffy/Spike house-destroying sex scene in "Smashed" the most spectacularly unsexy thing ever to hit television? It bugs me that people hold it up as the epitome of hotness - it just made me want to gag.
    • I don't think it was meant to be attractive. It was the start of some pretty dark stuff for Buffy. I would think finding it sexy is a little worrying.
    • It's no True Blood that's for sure. Keep in mind it was a few years ago now, so I guess it was considered edgier at the time.
    • Rule of symbolism. Their relationship is destructive by nature. It also provides context for the rape, they don't have a decent method of saying stop.


Why is There Another Song After Sweet Leaves?

  • So, in "Once More With Feeling", everyone is singing because of the demon's magic. After defeating the demon, they sing another song. Shouldn't the magic have gone away?
    • I guess there was little magic residue left over that kept them singing for a short while. Or maybe they just found that they really liked singing.
      • The answer is in Sweet's parting words: "All those feelings you've been concealing, say you're happy now once more with feeling" As to why Spike and Buffy were doing reprises of earlier songs, while everyone else was finishing "Where Do We Go From Here?", my guess is it's because once the aforementioned song finishes, that's when the magic fades and Buffy and Spike left the song early.
    • In "Where Do We Go From Here" its alluded that they can't stop singing until there is a curtain closing moment. Hence the line "When the curtains close on a kiss, God knows we can tell the end is near. Cut to Buffy and Spike and their moment which ends in a kiss and curtains closing.
      • That was just some fourth-wall breaking Foreshadowing (we know they can break the fourth wall because Anya and Xander do so ealier, with Anya doing some Lampshade Hanging about it). Sweet has them do a big finale after he's banished; see above.


It Could Be Witches! Some Evil Witches!

  • A minor quibble, but Xander theorizes that witches could be responsible for their musical woes. Then after a Death Glare from both Willow and Tara, he meekly backs down and admits that witches are good and therefore not a suspect. Could be considered a red herring to distract from the evil witch appearing at the end of the season, except that they've already faced at least one evil witch in the show's history. Xander had every reason to at least consider witches as suspects. Is it a legitimate headscratcher, or the show purposely making Xander a doormat and Willow/Tara into hypocrites?
    • This troper's assumption was always that the two witches took offense to the sterotype. Accurate or not. It would be the same reaction I'd expect if something happened to Spike/Angel and the other ran to Buffy and the Slayers and suggested it might be a Slayer who did in their partner. It doesn't matter that it's possible and even probable, what matter is Buffy, Faith and a thousand other slayers don't want to hear about one of their own being a murderer.


"Bargaining" for a Shovel

  • How about the whole matter of not digging up Buffy before the spell in "Bargaining"? What did they expect to happen when Buffy came back to life in a buried casket? They do have Xander mention how stupid they were in neglecting to take that into account, but it makes no sense that they would be so so stupid. Also, in the same episode, why do they let Buffybot patrol by herself, especially after making it clear earlier in the episode that she always needs to be supervised by one of them when she does just about anything?
    • Maybe they expected her to just appear in a brand new body, right in front of them. After all, it doesn't make much sense to put Buffy back in a partially decomposed body when you can just magic up a pretty new one. Whoops.
    • Presumably the spell was supposed to end by mystically returning her to the surface. It happened to get interrupted right before that point.
    • Or they just didn't fully understand the magicks they were working which, to be frank, wouldn't be the first time for this crew. Willow, after all, was the only one who even knew what the ritual entailed. Even Tara only had Willow's vague descriptions. It's very possible that they actually DID expect Buffy to just appear out of thin air in a brand new body.
    • This was Joss being a Jerkass. Sarah Michelle Gellar has a morbid fear of being buried alive. If they had dug the body up beforehand she wouldn't, in story, have to claw her way out of her own grave.


Something to Sing About

  • In Once More, With Feeling, the song "Something to Sing About" gets on my nerves immensely. The song in itself is nice, but the lyrics/meaning to the song don't match it at all. It sounds like a cheery, happy go lucky song about wanting a reason to live. WTH!?
    • Lyrical Dissonance. This troper loved this, and thought that in this case this dissonance had a dual function: first, it conveys Buffy's desperate attempts to pretend that she is glad to be back from the beyond (when actually she is miserable). This struggle is crucial to early sixth season until Buffy reveals at the end of OMWF that she was in heaven, not hell. She may appear happy, but actually listening to her or paying attention to her will reveal that she's pretty disturbed (just like this song). I think its second function (though this may just be me) is as a reference to such musical theatre greats as Stephen Sondheim, who I believe Whedon is a fan of. Sondheim uses the happy music/sad or angry lyrics technique to great effect with some frequency. For example, a song about murdering people and baking them into pies becomes a cheery waltz, or a cynical look at marriage becomes upbeat. More examples of this trope can be viewed on its page, of course, but I think a good example of its success is the acclaimed musical Avenue Q, from after OMWF, which used this effect throughout most of its score-- starting with its opening sequence.


The Strawman Corps

  • In season six, Buffy takes a gun away from a bank teller and says, "These? Never useful." Bullshit. The Initiative used ordinary guns to great effect. But guns are evil, and, in his own words, "Magic kicks science's ass." This contradicts the end of season two, in which Muggles Do It Better. The Initiative is a big, fat case of Designated Villain. Whedon, please. Could you try to be subtle? And your "Magic > Science" bit is a Broken Space Whale Aesop.
    • I assume you mean when Buffy killed The Judge with a rocket launcher towards the middle of season two, which was one instance, and hardly an "ordinary gun." And the Initiative didn't use ordinary guns to great effect, they used ordinary guns to extremely mild effect. Maggie brags about Riley having taken down something like seventeen vampires with his big fancy technology, and Riley is probably one of their better soldiers. Even Xander had a higher kill count than that armed with a pointy stick. And they usually operated in teams, and they usually had much more impressive technology than the typical handgun. So a single gun? Rarely useful against vampires and demons. As for the Initiative... they did villainous things. They experimented on Oz, they tried to kill the Slayer, they built a robo-demon-zombie and acted surprised when it turned into a huge prick. It's not designated villainy when the villain does evil shit all the time.
      • Guns may not kill a vampire, but they would certainly help in a fight. Darla brought Angel to his knees with two measely little pistols. Shoot a vampire to hurt him, then stake him for the finisher. Saves five minutes of fighting.
        • If they weren't very effective in using guns, it was because they weren't using the /right/ guns. Just because a pistol or SMG doesn't do much, doesn't mean a sniper rifle, combat rifle, or shotgun loaded with incendiary slugs won't work.
        • I tend to think of the "never useful" to also mean that 1) Guns attract attention. Stakings are quieter than gunshots and leave less evidence. 2) Guns cost money. Training costs money. Bullets cost money. Accidentally shooting a bystander or friend (Buffy isn't always fighting vamps in cemeteries, after all) - DEFINITELY going to cost money. Money the Scooby Gang really doesn't have, especially in the earlier seasons. Sure, guns might have their uses against vamps and demons, but they usually aren't practical uses as far as Buffy is concerned.
          • re: 'attracting attention' -- remember that in Sunnydale, not even rocket launchers or hand grenades attract attention. They had to blow up the entire high school to start attracting attention, and even then the police investigation was nonexistent. After all, in addition to the part where the entire graduating class knows exactly what happened, there is also the part where Buffy is on record as having burned down her last high school and having been given involuntary psychiatric evaluation. She's the logical starting point for any investigation into 'So, why is there a smoking crater where we used to have a school?', and yet the social worker investigating Dawn's case in season 6 doesn't remotely act like Buffy was a person of interest in a major domestic terrorism incident less than three years ago.
          • If I remember correctly, the actual quote goes "These things? Never helpful'. I take it to mean that from Buffy's personal experiences, she doesn't see gun use as something beneficial to her, probably due to lack of proper defense against a gun if she loses it in confrontation.
            • While that almost certainly is Buffy's reasoning, it only underlines that her reaction is personal prejudice and not rationally thought through. There are no bulletproof policemen or soldiers IRL, and yet they are all still packing because they have legitimate need to. The 'defense' vs. being shot with your own weapon is learning how not to have your weapon taken away from you. Buffy deserves a point for acknowledging that if she has no interest in training how to use firearms with appropriate skill she should not be carrying any, but is still missing a bet in that she is deliberately spurning an entire category of weapons training when she's in a full-time job that requires her to know how to potentially kill anything with anything.

Anya's strength of convenience?

  • Ok, so in Season 7 we see several examples of Anya's strength as a vengeance demon. She is able to hold her own against Buffy and even willing to fight with Spike. Why is it then that when Dark Willow grabs her by the throat in the penultimate episode of Season 6, she makes no attempt to fight back. She simply screams at Buffy for help (who is conveniently unconscious for those 5 seconds, after being knocked into a table at a top speed of 3 miles per hour). Anya is a vengeance demon at this time, yet acts like a defenseless human (except she can teleport). She is even knocked out easily multiple times, despite the fact that a sword to her chest does nothing.
    • Anya's strong and hard to kill. That doesn't make her invulnerable. It's less of a "Your attacks bounce off me like nothing" iron wall and more akin to vampires, ie. "Ow, that REALLY HURT, but only specific things are lethal to me." Also, the sword to her chest didn't do nothing, it knocked her out for a bit.
    • That still doesn't explain why she doesn't attempt to push Willow away or pull her hand off her neck when she has her by the throat. It's like they forgot vengeance demons were strong for those episodes.
    • Anya had only just returned to vengeance-demon-ing very recently in "Two To Go" and it's possible that the strength of said demon was coming back to her very slowly. Alternatively, it's plausible that Willow is using some spell to hold her in place, like she had tried to do to Glory the previous season. Alternatively again, Anya's former fiancé's best friend is going on a murderous rampage, and Anya is simply not coping at all.
    • Perhaps Anya being a vengeance demon and Willow being full of vengeance prevented Anya from properly attacking Willow because of some demonic law. Maybe anya couldn't harm a potential "client."
      • Along that line of speculation, remember that D'Hoffryn gave Willow a recruitment offer in season 4. She isn't just a potential client - she's a potential vengeance demon!

Anya's "I'll never tell"

  • In Once more with feeling, why is Anya so intent in "never telling" Xander about his faults? We're talking about the usually extremely blunt Anya here!
    • The list of minor failings thats irks the two of them is more for comedic effect. Anya never really had a problem calling out Xander when he annoyed her (and for that matter Xander never really had a problem doing the same when Anya annoyed him). The main point of the song seems to be that they both have serious doubts about whether they can make a marriage work. Xander worries that he will never be good enough to make a good life for the two of them. Anya worries that she will grow old and become unattractive and that Xander will lose interest in her. Both issues had been played out before but apparently neither of them had ever really sat down to explore them fully.


Cordelia Hates Weddings?

  • I looked through the Chronology of Buffy and Angel, and Cordelia was on vacation with the Groosalugg at the same time that Xander and Anya's wedding. Why wasn't she invited? I couldn't even find a meta example for that.
    • The meta reason is likely that having her there would've stolen the spotlight from Xander and Anya, it would have felt like a cheap gimmick once the wedding's derailment went through, plus Anya and Cordelia would have a really weird dynamic to write around (Anya kinda knows Cordelia thanks to "The Wish", but Cordelia wouldn't know her, and it'd just be an awkward situation to deal with). I can't remember if the Groo vacation thing was written for Charisma Carpenter, but if so, she might also have been unavailable for filming. But as for an in-universe reason: the moment Anya found out Cordelia was Xander's ex-girlfriend, she probably wouldn't let her within 50 miles of their wedding.
    • Anya already knew about Xander and Cordy. The fact Willow broke them up was one of the reasons Anya and Willow didn't initially get along. That aside, Cordy wasn't invited for two reasons: 1) She is his ex and it would be weird. 2) As far as we know no one has even bothered talking to Cordy in over a year (in "Disharmony"). What would be the point in inviting her. On a related note, Angel wasn't invited because Xander hates him, and Wesley wasn't invited because everyone still hates him for the Faith incident.
      • In addition to that Anya has a bit of a jealous streak and likely nixed the idea of Xander's ex-girlfriend being on the guest list, there is also that Cordelia is likely to bring Angel or Wesley as her plus-one, which is something that would get a "no" vote from multiple Scoobies for reasons listed above.
    • Has Cordelia ever forgiven Xander, anyway?
      • It's implied at the end of season three that she did. Or at least that they were capable of rebuilding their friendship; she more or less rejoined the Scoobies and they weren't too cruel to one another. Possibly they'd have had some kind of relationship if she'd stuck around in Sunnydale rather than running off to LA, but as it is, Xander left Sunnydale for the summer not long after they'd started being friends again and Cordelia was gone by the time he got back.
    • Honestly, I never even realized that, but because of everything said above, I think the episode could have been a lot better if she'd been there. Maybe they'd have stayed together?
  • Besides, Cordy was on vacation with Groo. She had other stuff on her mind at that point.

Warren

  • Why is Warren seen as a misogynist by most of the fandom? The two people he murdered were women but both of them were accidents and I doubt he would have hesitated any more if Buffy had been a man. When he mind controlled his former girlfriend it seemed like he didn't fully understand how playing out his fantasies would hurt people.
    • Warren murdered a Red Shirt security guard with the freeze ray + Trina + Tara + Buffy (she got better) on-screen in season 6. In season 7 he killed more men than women: as the First, he killed all of Sunnydale except Xander, Ripper and two dozen women.
      • Actually, they explicitly say that the security guard doesn't die. He's in critical condition at first, but he survives.
    • First, he built a sexbot. A sexbot whose personality gives a disturbing insight into Warren's views on women. "Crying is emotional blackmail," for example. Then he broke up with his sexbot by abandoning her to chase after his new girlfriend. Then he built another sexbot, but to be fair, that was under duress.[1] Then he kidnapped his now ex-girlfriend and mind-controlled her to be his love slave; her death was an accident but the attempted rape was not. I believe he may also have thrown around derogatory comments towards Buffy's gender as well, but it's been so long that I can't remember the exact words.
      • "Just one night when superbitch woudn't show up!" Pretty much everything Warren says during the fight in "Seeing Red" is sexist comments.
    • As for not understanding how playing out his fantasies would hurt people, that's more Andrew and Jonathan, who were just in it for the fun. I don't think Warren had any illusions about what he was doing; he was pushing for killing Buffy right from the start, after all. The other two had to be eased into the idea of murdering someone, and only one of them (Andrew) ever accepted the prospect, and then, only because it happened and they got away with it; Warren was perfectly fine with it right from day one.
      • Agreed. When Katrina tells them that what they're doing is rape, Jonathan and Andrew react with horror, but Warren doesn't. They honestly didn't even make the connection, but Warren knew perfectly well what he was doing. And mind controlling his ex-girlfriend and dressing her in a skimpy maid's outfit while forcing her to call him "master" is pretty damn misogynistic.

Dark Willow, Gay Willow?

  • The Psycho Lesbian trope being used repeatedly in regards to Dark Willow. Dark Willow has been foreshadowed all the way from the first episode she did a spell, Becoming Part 2. Giles insists it will not end well to open that door, and in Lovers Walk, we already see Xander pointing out how immoral Willow is being by trying to fix everything with magic. I never bought the magic = drugs storyline, and I feel it was a cop out to make none of it Willow's fault. If they had continued with Dark Willow appearing because of Willow's own flaws and being power hungry, I would have loved it. But I digress, it seems like they were trying to lead up to Dark Willow from day one. It just so happened that she needed something to push her off the edge, and it had to be Tara's death. The Dark Willow storyline is not about a lesbian going psycho after having sex, its about a girl whose own flaws brought her down, and that girl just happened to be a lesbian. And the having sex bit is just Joss's way of screwing with us, making the characters happy before bringing them down. Remember Angelus?
    • Think of it more like magic is a metaphor for ALL drugs (recreational AND pharmaceutical). Willow had a recreational drug problem, and Tara didn't want her to give up magic entirely, just use less of it and for better reasons (i.e. stop doing crack, but you can use anti-histamines during allergy season). When Tara dies, Willow goes over the edge and tries to kill people (think of it like she's trying to poison them, with drugs). The lesbian angle doesn't factor into the Dark Willow storyline. AT ALL. Word of God even says that if Seth Green had still been on the show, he would've died in Tara's place (as Willow's significant other) and the rest of the story would have been the same. Not everyone is Jesus in purgatory.
      • Agreed, being gay is nothing to do with the Dark Willow storyline. Replace Tara with a boy and the storyline runs exactly the same. Also, no-one said that magic=drugs, just that the overuse of magic has similar effects and is addictive. Lots of things can be addictive, not all of them are drugs.
        • The drug parallel was so blatantly obvious, you'd have to be blind not to see it.
    • I'm with the original troper. Willow and Tara's relationship was bound up in their magic right from the beginning of the relationship - and there's actually another example of Evil Willow = Lesbian (or Bisexual) Willow: Wishverse Willow. "I'm so evil, and skanky. And I think Im kinda gay!" Magic as Willow uses it is deeply bound up in femininity and sexuality and mother goddessy stuff. "Wicca" was practically used as a euphemism for "lesbian" in season 4. When Willow goes off the rails it's definitely a case of psycho lesbian.
      • Not really. Vampire Willow is shown to be evil not because of her sexuality, but because she's a soulless vampire. And as a soulless vampire, she feels little guilt and fear, which makes her more uninhibited and thus more likely to experiment and become aware of her sexuality than Season 3's Normal Willow. Season 3 Normal Willow's line never says that being "kinda gay" is evil. It merely shows how Willow thinks that Vampire Willow might represent sides of her she hasn't explored yet; at this point, she hasn't explored her vengeful side or her preference for women, but the two are connected because she hasn't gotten to know either of those sides yet, and not because being gay and evil are related. After VampWillow is long out of the picture, Normal Willow's relationship with Tara is far more romantic and less dangerous than, say, VampWillow's relationship with VampXander. Or Buffy's initial relationship with Spike. Magic does not equal "lesbian" since other characters like Giles and the Watcher's Council use magic without the sexuality symbolism. Willow's magic addiction represents drug abuse. If her addiction represented lesbianism, the show would've had Tara get (destructively) closer to Willow without breaking up with her in Season 6. Finally, Willow isn't the only character to snap when her lover gets caught in crossfire. Giles sets Spike's house on fire after Jenny died, remember?
      • Not even necessarily when a lover is caught in the crossfire. Just an episode or two before Willow snapped, Xander went after Spike with intent to murder when Spike and Anya had a mutual sympathy bang.
  • On the note of Oz dying in Tara's place...FridgeLogic. Wouldn't Warren need silver bullets to kill Oz? Would load his gun with silver bullets if his target is the slayer?
    • Silver with gold-flake bullets anointed with holy water on one side, desecrated communion wine on the other, and a hollow-point core full of holly, hemlock, and mistletoe bound with a paste of crushed garlic. You can't be too prepared when going after a Slayer with a mortal weapon, especially if she has a werewolf bodyguard in addition to her witch girl-friend (and Xander). Tara-verse Warren was going by the assumption that the Slayer gets no powers other than super-strength from whatever causes the slayer line (from what we know, a demonic spirit similar to a bodiless vampire). Buffy had a Healing Factor, and while Warren was right about the Slayer not being able to survive a well-placed bullet, he was wrong about her being only human. I'd have prepared a whole rack of bullets like that as soon as I got the money for the silver (the members of the Trio were rich early in the season, in addition to their Offscreen Villain Dark Matter), and gone after the Slayer using one (or eight) of those if I'd wanted to kill her. ...And a cold-iron athame dipped in sea salt in a shoulder holster, just in case the bullets didn't end the situation.
    • Actually, it's more likely that Warren never would have existed at all in that scenario. Whedon has mentioned that he originally intended to kill Oz in order to push Willow toward the dark side, and that it only wound up being Tara because Seth Green left the show prematurely. He never said the circumstances would have been exactly the same, or even similar. Oz's death probably would have happened much sooner, as he was already established as Willow's love interest by season four and no additional time was needed to set things up. And as a sidebar, was it ever even established that Oz can only be killed by silver bullets, even in human form? You'd think that would have come up.
  • To be honest, it bothered me much more that Willow is now "gay" when her previous relationships with Xander and Oz aren't really retconned. It bothered me when Vamp!Willow was referred to as "kinda gay!" when she had a functioning (for a vamp at least) relationship with Vamp!Xander, and seemed to have a weird obsession with torturing Angel that was implied to be sexual as well. Kinsey Scale, Joss! It's possible for someone to be a Depraved Bisexual and lean strongly towards one side or the other.


Buffy Saved Dawn From Heaven?

  • Buffy wants to die at the end of Bargaining to go back to Heaven, thinking Earth is Hell. However, she sees Dawn in danger and rescues her. Which makes sense from Earth's standards, where death is painful, however, Buffy herself has experienced. If I came back from Heaven, I'd personally kill my whole family so that they can experience it with me. And why doesn't she just kill herself after saving Dawn? Season 6 and 7 becomes one giant plothole after considering this.
    • Well, in Real Life it's usually said that suicide sends you to Hell. You can think of it as the real life writers who tell us about heaven in the first place covering up a plot hole. And while this is a total Fan Wank, she probably doesn't know if Dawn will exist after being killed. Dawn's the Key. It's stretching things even to assume that the Key has a soul and can go anywhere after death. (Of course, this is a Fan Wank, since the writers have tried to ignore the implications of being the Key as much as possible, and couldn't possibly have intended this.)
    • It's one thing to commit suicide. It's an entirely different thing to watch those you love get hurt and possibly die. Also, Buffy died and was at peace. Dawn didn't want to die. Most suicides don't want to see people they care about get hurt. That's why they're suicides, and not mass murderers.
    • There's also the fact that Buffy died in pretty unusual circumstances. As she says herself, she doesn't really knows about theology nor how dimensions work. So she probably figured that it's entirely possible that her stint in "Heaven" was caused by her being tossed into a freak dimension by the big end-of-the-world space rift. Who's to say that dying some other way would send her back there ?
      • "I was in heaven... I think I was in heaven..."
      • Buffy's description of "Heaven" always seemed like yet another drug metaphor to me. The "withdrawal symptoms" after her resurrection even more so. She was in a hell dimension, hopped up on demon crack?
      • If Joyce Summers wasn't there, then no way was that really Heaven.
    • This troper always assumed that going to hell or heavenly dimensions in Buffy wasn't based on a reward thing - it was more just random where you got thrown into when you passed from the mortal dimension. I also assumed that to get into one of these dimensions you had to die a mystical death (via an opening between dimensions, like Buffy or Angel at the end of series two) so just killing her friends and/or herself wouldn't mean they all ended up in heaven.
    • She sacrificed herself for the entire planet without being asked, when you do that you go to heaven.
    • Because she was a traumatized, psychological wreck. Logic, reason, and rational behaviour should not be expected of someone who's just been through what she has. Wanting to die to make the hurting stop and get back to the happy place does not prevent her from having "Protect loved ones" hardwired into her basic behavioural patterns.

Tara's Continued Use of Magic

  • Just a side effect of the Seasonal Rot in season six, but Tara chewing out Willow for using magic, but never actually giving up on it herself bugs me. The writers probably needed to push the Magic=Drugs storyline, but it does bring down my opinion of Tara, given her own abuse of magic to make her friends not see demons a season earlier.
    • Tara is against Willow's misuse of magic, not magic in general. Tara has made one mistake with magic, and learned from it. Meanwhile, Willow tries both to use magic for every little thing in life, but also completely fails to learn her lesson when given the chance; when Tara confronts her about the forgetting spell, she promises to lay off magic for awhile, but instead repeats exactly the same actions. Magic is not drugs - that's not the point of the storyline at all. Simply that overuse of magic can lead to addiction and unpleasant consequences. For comparison, gambling isn't a drug either, but you can still get hooked on it.


When Was Buffy in an Asylum?

  • In "Normal Again", Buffy says that she had gone into an asylum for a few weeks after she met her first vampires. When was this? It oughtn't have been between the movie and her move to Sunnydale, because she had already been in Slayer Mode for some time and there were many witnesses to the whole thing, and it would be an incredible coincidence if she was attacked by vampires and survived prior to becoming a Slayer. I've read the canon version of what happened, but I don't have it to check if there were any fewer witnesses to the attackers actually being vampires (and no undusted bodies were in the ruins, or she would have been imprisoned, or at least not allowed out of the mental hospital). However, even in the canon version she had been training with Merrick for some time, and while it would be possible that she had a small breakdown after Merrick died, she would have had to have been completely ostracised by the people who had been terrorized by the vampires to not have any confirmation, if any who had been near them during the attack (as opposed to cowering in a corner far from the "gang of PCP addicts") had survived.
    • That movie didn't happen. I mean it literally didn't happen in-universe. There was no Merrick, that whole movie can be disregarded. The series used Joss Whedon's original script as canon, rather than the film that was produced. To make this difference perfectly clear to the viewers, in season one it's repeatedly stated that Buffy was expelled from her last school for burning down the gym. Ergo, no movie. About the asylum specifically, the impression one gets is that a few weeks or so after Buffy learned about being the Slayer, she told her parents about it, which got her committed. She stopped talking about vampires, was released, her parents tried to forget it ever happened, and Buffy went on slaying in secret. Then she burned down the school gym, was expelled, and tried to give up her responsibilities as Slayer by moving to Sunnydale. Cue season one, episode one.
      • "The canon version". I'm not talking about the movie, I'm talking about the canon comic. In which Merrick was her Watcher and she got expelled for burning down the gym.
      • Merrick appears in "Becoming," in a flashback.
  • The Slayer, Interrupted Comic clears that up. (Although we still don't know how it happened before Dawn).
    • Maybe before Dawn, it never happened. After all, in the comic, it only happened because Dawn was there and looked through Buffy's diaries.
      • The stint in the asylum never happening pre-Dawn would explain a lot, particularly Buffy's season one casual slips of the tongue in conversations with her mother...at which Joyce doesn't blink. Joyce's season 1 attitude is pretty hard to accept as that of a mother who just committed her daughter to an asylum for delusions about vampires and slaying. Taking it as an effect of Dawn coming would make the disparity a Cosmic Retcon instead of a plain old the-author-didn't-have-this-idea-from-day-one-but-wants-to-use-it-now Retcon. Note this conversation in The Witch, when Buffy's a little punchy/chatty from Amy's mom's spell:

Buffy: There's just some things about being a Vampire Slayer that the older generation...
Joyce: A what?
Buffy: It's a...long story.

    • I just assumed it was before the show. Buffy starts Slaying, burns down gym, Joyce and Buffy's dad put her in an institution. Buffy gets better, but then mom and dad split up. Buffy and Joyce go to Sunnydale not just so Buffy can be elsewhere, but so that Joyce can begin again, too.

Buffy's Soundproof Bathroom

  • So, in "Seeing Red", Spike tries to rape Buffy. This rape attempt goes on for a few minutes, during which time Buffy is shouting either "No" or "Help." The entire episode Willow is adamant about not getting up, and therefore she and Tara, two ridiculously powerful witches, are just a few rooms down. Given that they live in a town where someone shouting for help is very likely to be something very bad, why did they not come running to the rescue?
    • They might have put a soundproofing spell on their bedroom to keep from freaking out their housemates. Still probably a bad idea in a town like Sunnydale, but hey they might have been high on magic or something equally silly.
    • Probably thought it was just Spike and Buffy usual sex routine. That is the problem with the whole "oooh Spike rapes Buffy" argument, Buffy and Spike's sexual relationship was basically rape-roleplay without a safe-word. It was inevitable it would end with one or the other going too far and it was fifty/fifty who it would have been. Kids always choose a safeword before sexual roleplay of any sort.
      • And how the hell would Willow and Tara know that "rape-roleplay without a safe word" was Buffy and Spike's "usual sex routine"? No no no. They would have come running had they heard her screaming like that.
    • If you look at the shooting script, Willow and Tara are in Tara's dorm room, not Buffy's house. Note the scene where Xander has just found a traumatised Buffy -- she jumps when the door downstairs slams because Willow has just arrived at the house with news on the Trio.

Makeup Artists Work In Vein

  • While the Buffy special effects usually range from the decent to the deliberately campy, and I expect some things to look fake, there's one time it really distracts me. In the Evil Willow episodes, the veins on her face look like they were just drawn on her skin with marker rather than seeming at all textured or real. The reasons this bugs me are twofold. 1.) Making this look right would be an easier effect than most of the stuff they've pulled off. 2.) Unlike the monster masks, prostheses, and more extensive makeup jobs, Evil Willow's creepiness depends primarily on the actress's facial expressions and dialogue-- so you have to focus on her face and can't just let your eye slide over it. It may look better on a bigger screen from far away, but watching the DVDs on my computer it's a really annoying effect.
    • This Troper thinks they look... pretty much like normal veins, if blood looked black. Veins aren't exactly very textured.
    • They look like they're just drawn-on lines because that's how they were done, according to the DVD commentary.
    • Subject to your interpretation of the magic involved, texturing would not be appropriate on the facial veins. Humans have a layer of subcutaneous fat between their skin and their veins which tends to prevent smaller veins (such as those in the face) from bulging. The subcutaneous fat layer is more prominent in women, giving them a "softer" appearance. Large veins in her temples and arms could have benefited from texturing. I agree though, the "drawn on" effect could have been blended in better.


Dawn's Not Grateful

  • Something that annoyed me throughout season 6 and 7, especially season 7 episode "Him" and the whole abandonment thing Dawn had in season 6: Has everyone magically forgotten that Buffy died for Dawn? She sacrificed her life to save her little sister, and while I realize that the writers have to keep them fighting to appeal to the viewers in some senses, how can Dawn still be a brat to Buffy after she died for her sake? Just a little irritating.
    • Dawn and Buffy's father had long since abandoned them. Their mother died and Buffy was dead for a while. It's perfectly natural for someone, especially a teenager, to have abandonment issues after something like that.
      • Agreed. Plus, Buffy was still risking her life every night, and paying more attention to slaying than her. You can't blame her for wanting some attention from Buffy, as she could have died any night.


Only Three Walls, No Fourth Wall!

  • Just a minor thing, but during the song "Something to Sing About" in "Once More with Feeling," there's a point where Buffy looks at the camera and says "and you can sing along." Who is she talking to? Is she breaking the fourth wall to talk to the viewers? Is she talking to Sweet or Dawn? It's always really distracting for me.
    • Earlier, Anya mentions after her duet with Xander that it was as though the fourth wall didn't exist. She's talking to you.
    • However, if you want to think of it purely in an in-universe way, then she was probably talking singing to Sweet. If this Troper recalls correctly, right before she starts singing she says that she thinks Sweet knows what she's about to say -- thus, he could sing along if he wanted to. It wasn't a request, it was a statement.
    • Even in-universe it would make sense that she's talking to the audience. The town of Sunnydale has started acting as if it took place in the world of musical theater. Actors often talk to the audience in musical theater, in fact, most of the time, the songs themselves are really addressed to the audience, so every time they sing it's directed at us.


Giles' Absence at Xander and Anya's Wedding

  • How come Giles wasn't at Xander and Anya's wedding?
    • He was in England - he left in "Tabula Rasa" because he thought Buffy needed to learn to stand on her own. Not really smart, but eh. * shrugs*
      • He's only one plane ride away. Surely he'd want to see the wedding of two close friends that he'd been fighting evil with for the past 6 years?
      • He might have been busy. You know, huge demon battle, meditating in a forest somewhere, being interrogated by the watchers, dying family member...it's kind of stupid to assume he has absolutely no life in England.
        • Seeing as how he barely had any life in Sunnydale in seasons 4 and 5, it's not that stupid of an assumption.
      • My thought was that he wasn't invited - Anya left him off the guest list just in case he decided to stay and take back ownership of the Magic Box. Either that or he declined the invite thinking that it was too soon to interject himself back into the Scoobies' lives since his rationale for leaving was to force Buffy to grow up and stand on her own two feet.
        • "You can't have the shop back." "I know." "You signed papers." "I know." So, yeah, probably not that first one.
    • Apparently, there was a mention in a early draft that Giles couldn't make the wedding but paid for the flowers as a way of making it up to them. Why it was left out of the episode proper, I have no idea...


Why Can't Halfrek Help Anya?

  • In "Entropy", Anya is trying to find someone to wish vengeance on Xander, preferably a female someone. She complains that she cannot find anyone to Halfrek. Halfrek. The demon that has no problem with Xander getting hurt. The female demon that has no problem with Xander getting hurt and is Anya's friend and is looking to help her out with her vengeance. You see where I'm going with this?
    • Why would Halfrek want vengeance against Xander? There needs to be a reason you know.
      • He left her friend at the alter? Halfrek has no less need for vengance against Xander than Buffy, Dawn, Tara, Willow or Spike, all of whom Anya attempted to make a wish.
      • Maybe Vengeance Demons can't make wishes for each other?
    • Anya is a woman scorned, not a neglected child. That's Anyankha's territory, the (first potential, then actual) irony of which was never lost on anyone involved in all three years that she was with Xander. Just as Anyankha's a stickler for only casting vengeance spells for scorned women, Halfrek's probably the same with neglected children.
      • Actually, in "Older and Far Away", Halfrek mentions that most vengeance demons "try to be a little more well-rounded", and that only Anya had a specific 'territory'. Although it's kinda vague, as when asked about it, she says "It's not a thing, the children need me". But it's not really a rule as such.
        • Maybe Halfrek knew that Xander had been a neglected/abused child himself, and would have found performing a vengeance spell against him distasteful (just as Anya probably wouldn't curse a scorned woman).
          • If anyone would be experienced enough with child abuse cases to be able to recognize the symptoms on Xander it would be Halfrek, yes.

Joyce, Buffy, and Natural vs. Supernatural Death

  • Joyce's and Buffy's deaths. Does it bother anyone else that after Joyce died there was an entire episode about how bringing people back to life is unnatural and wrong but then this is completely ignored in favor of reviving Buffy? True she's the slayer but after well established rules and showing that it's wrong to defy death it's really annoying that she is revived so arbitrarily. It's even more annoying when put in the perspective that she can get revived because she's the Slayer but apparently her mother, Kendra, Jenny Calendar, Anya, Jonathan and more, can't be revived because they're not important enough.
    • She can be revived not because she was the Slayer, but because she was killed directly and explicitly by magic (as opposed to, say, a brain haemorrhage, a cut throat, a broken neck or a knife wound). Yeah, it's still fairly arbitrary, but it's got nothing to do with "importance".
      • Joyce's brain haemorrhage was natural??? It had nothing to do with the Monks putting 15 years of fake memories in her head two months earlier? Buffy,s death was unrelated to falling from a 100 ft pylon?
        • Your knowledge of how memories work is astonishing and insightful. Yes, every time you make a memory your brain expands in a particular area and if you make too many memories at once it forms a tumor.
        • Technically, Buffy died before she hit the ground. It's like falling off a cliff and detonating a suicide vest mid-way down. Sure the fall would have killed you, but something else killed you first. As for Joyce... Magic is very arbitrary in the Buffy-verse. Sometimes you can't do stuff with it, sometimes you can.
    • I think what the troper meant was plot importance as opposed to in universe importance. It can't be Buffy the Vampire Slayer without a Buffy. The writers didn't need to bring back the other characters because they weren't Buffy.
    • The explanation really doesn't help. I know that's why it was possible but it annoys me to no end.
      • Especially since it turns Joyce's death and Buffy's subsequent explanation about natural order a Broken Aesop.
      • On the other hand, it has been repeatedly implied that the Scoobies made the wrong decision in bringing her back. That's certainly Buffy's opinion throughout Season Six, and if they hadn't revived her, there would have been no problems with the First.
      • It's also pretty clear that they all had reservations before doing it. They knew it was wrong, they just chose to ignore that.
    • That whole mystic death thing is never clearly defined anyway. Death by vampire, demon, or human isn't mystic but death by summoned spider demon apparently is. Basically all the writers just decided that everyone who wasn't Buffy died by non mystical means but Buffy is the one exception even though jumping into the portal shouldn't have killed her and it should've been the fall that did it.
      • The spider demon only existed because of Anya, so yeah, mystical.
      • Spike managed to endure the fall without much injury, and Buffy is explicitly stronger than vampires, so the portal was most probably the cause of her death.
        • She's explicitly stronger but not as durable. Bullets and knives work just fine, you have to work a vampire over pretty hard for him to notice it more than fifteen minutes later. So the fact that Spike got up from the fall with minimal injury means nothing, we've seen Spike and Angel get shot, stabbed and thrown from buildings.
      • It should also be pointed out that if you watch the Buffy-falling-through-the-energy scene closely, there is a rather obvious release-from-agony-throw-your-head-back-in-orgasmic-bliss-release bit that very likely shows her actually breathing her last. So yeah, mystical energy portal death thing and not the fall that kills her.
    • I thought death by Vampire/Demon/Spell did count. But mortals bringing mortals back from the dead is incredibly difficult (since the universe is stacked against humanity), so Buffy was the only one the Scoobies bothered bringing back.
      • It should also be pointed out that the MacGuffin used to resurrect Buffy was destroyed during the resurrection spell because of the intervention of the biker demons, and was clearly stated repeatedly to be the last of its kind.
      • Of course, the main powering influence behind Buffy's resurrection was Willow, the new leader of the Scoobies. And this was while she was going through her "magic solves everything let me use more" approach to problem solving. When others in the show died, she wasn't an addict - and, in fact, when Joyce died close to the start of her serious magic addiction she did encourage Dawn by causing the book with the resurrection spell to slide out enough to become visible. What they did was shown as wrong, and the reason they didn't do it for others is a) they knew it was wrong and b) they didn't have the power needed until Willow went a bit crazy.
      • Spike -- the guy obsessed with Buffy and with no conscience (at that time) outside of that -- still objected to Buffy's resurrection on ethical grounds. Spike. When the soulless vampire is saying that what you're doing is wrong and crazy, then its wrong and crazy. So yes, the main driving force was Willow's powermad hubris and everybody else's desperation and grief and following her lead.
    • Besides, Joyce got an episode about how bringing people back to life is wrong, but Buffy got a whole season for the same thing.

Tara's Corpse's Footwear

  • I know there are many deep and intense discussions happening on this page, but I just have a quick complaint. In Season 6, when Tara dies, there are at least two separate shots of Tara's body. Both these scenes are (as is necessary) very dramatic and emotional. But I feel like the gravity of the situation was undercut by Tara's corpse wearing brightly colored flip-flops. I mean, sure, she's home, she's getting comfortable, it all makes perfect sense, but it's almost humorous in its visual juxtaposition. Note to future writers/directors: If someone dies and you want viewers to take it seriously, make sure they aren't wearing flip-flops. Bare feet, shoes, whatever else, is all fine, but no flip-flops.
    • It's all done on purpose. Her accidental Bridge Drop death; Xander, Buffy and Warren not knowing about it; her un-meaningful last words. It's all meant to impact on the suddenness of it and how unfair it is.


Mummy Storage

  • In "Life Serial," why is the mummy hand just lying/crawling around in the storeroom? Shouldn't it be in a cage or something? If Buffy had such a hard time with it, how would any of the others be expected to get it for a customer? Maybe there's some way to deal with it she doesn't know about, but then, no one tells her. It's a relatively minor complaint that does make for a hilarious montage, but really ...
    • It was suggested to this troper that the hand had escaped.
    • I assumed that the mummy hand being aggressive was part of Jonathan's spell. His spell created a time loop with a contrived problem, and so the spell created the problem by making the mummy hand attack Buffy.


Jonathan

The way the Scoobies treat Jonathan in "Two To Go" bothers me. He saved Buffy from a powered-up Warren the day before, he had no knowledge of Tara's murder, yet for the rest of the episode, Buffy and Xander talk to him and about him like he handed Warren the gun, and all he wants to do is help them.

  • I think it is because Jonathan and the rest of the trio spent the entire season fucking with Buffy so they are a little pissed, and rightfully so.
    • More importantly, they had just found out about Tara's death and were dealing with both that and their friend turning into complete evil. They definitely didn't make the right choice but they can be forgiven for not being in particularly good moods on that day.

Money Woes

  • Why does Buffy need a job? Seriously, the council is a phone call away and they clearly have a ton of money. It's even implied in Angel that they have alchemists who create gold for them. Buffy already laid down the law in the last season telling them that they exist purely to serve her and their job now is to sit around until she tells them what she needs. Surely instead of getting a job she could simply have made a single phone call to England and arranged a lump sum to pay off her current debts as well as an ongoing wage.
    • If a person who basically told you that "exist purely to serve her and their job now is to sit around until she tells them what she needs" asked for money because she can't cope with money issues, would you give her the money straight out, or make her crawl? Also, Buffy is proud; this would be too much like begging.
      • Point taken. But still, they Council basically exists solely to aid her; the Watchers are useless without a Slayer. It's really their job to make sure she's on track, and her biggest issue is money, something that the Council could very very easily handle. Even if she's too proud to beg, they're undoubtedly monitoring her situation.
        • Monitoring it, sure, but there's no reason to assume they're in any rush to help her. There isn't a hellgod they desperately need to see destroyed operating out of Sunnydale anymore. By extension, the Council has no reason to deal with what they perceive as Buffy's rebellious, uncontrollable nature. If Buffy went to the Council for money, the ball goes into their court instead of hers; it's the same power thing she was talking about when she made her stand against them in season five. Without an urgent need for a Slayer, and with Buffy's urgent need for money, the Council would have the power here. She has nothing to bargain with, which leaves her two options: beg at their feet, or keep her pride and find somewhere else to get the money. To do the former would cost her the victory she struck against them during the crisis with Glory, and put her right back in the Council's pocket, where they can make her do anything they want under threat of pulling her funding if she gets uppity. The key point here is really that it isn't their job to help her; it's their job to control her, and her money troubles give them an easy opening to bring her back under the reins.


Just let Willow finish

  • I know that ultimately the answer is that we don't kill humans. Even humans that we are fairly certain wouldn't stay behind bars if you put em there but at some point it was probably the right call to just sit back and let her kill stuff. At the very least Giles was taking a huge risk (unless there was a prophesy which you could say is implied when Anya tells Buffy that no super natural thing can stop her at this point) to empower her with the truest magics. The magic that turned her from a homocidal witch with plans to kill exactly two more people and then sit someplace and cry into omnicidal girl about to end the world. Clearly as out of it as she was Willow was in control enough to hold back against her friends. I think it's pretty obvious that if she wanted Buffy or Xander dead they would have died. Heck assuming that homing fireball isn't limited to one she wasn't even really trying all that hard to kill Andrew and Jonathan.
    • That's really not true. Willow wore herself to the point of exhaustion trying to kill them. As for Buffy, Willow nearly killed her with those zombies after Buffy and Dawn fell in that grave. Giles nearly died from the beating Willow gave him. She stated pretty clearly that the thought the world deserved to burn for taking Tara from her.
      • She nearly killed everybody but based on what we've seen of her power both in this and in Season 5 it seems clear that if she had really wanted any body dead who didn't die she would have. Powering up to fight Buffy was clearly her allowing herself to be stalled after a point. I get that she wanted to do Warren personally and she didn't count on Giles at all but bag of knives would have been easy to pick up. She could have finished off Giles with hardly any effort. She could have thrown a fireball at the car her friends were in instead of chasing them with an eighteen wheeler.
        • Once again, Giles was actually close to dying by the end of the episode. There were absolutely no signs at the point that Giles showed up that she was stalling. She didn't care who she had to hurt to kill two people who were only vaguely connected to Tara's death.
          • When you're a super powered witch whose demonstrated the ability to fly, teleport, thicken the air around your opponents and shoot lightning bolts what else do you call fighting the Slayer on remotely even terms? For that matter why did she bring Buffy and Dawn from Rath's place? There is absolutely no reason to do that. Not that Buffy was a credible threat to Willow at that point but why bring the only person who might pose as an actual speed bump to the place they need to be to stop you? It would make sense if she hated Buffy and wanted her to see it when she killed the nerds but there's no indication of that. She could have thrown that homing fireball at the beginning of the fight and then fought Buffy to prevent her from saving everybody. She literally does everything in the only order that lets people live.
            • Willow's magic isn't as all-powerful as she likes to think it is. For one, she can't teleport. Anya explicitly calls her out on that one; she can make a flash show of her appearance and disappearance, but it's a parlor trick. For another, there's the question of power usage; sure, Willow can go Super Mode and make physics her bitch, but she can't do it for very long before she wears herself out, and Buffy has repeatedly shown to be hard to kill. For another, she's squishy. Sure, she has plenty of offensive powers that she can throw around, but a lot of them are for flash and intimidation more than anything else, and Buffy doesn't take to that. The homing fireball is a profound example of this; yeah, it's cool and scary, but that's about it. For one, it can be dodged, and for another, it moves slowly enough that Buffy could outrun it; she would NEVER have hit the car with a projectile that can't even keep up with a human sprinting. As for why Willow buffed herself to fight Buffy on her own terms, she had no other options. Remember: she couldn't externalize magic at that point in time. Even for all her power, she was completely neutered by Anya standing behind a curtain with a tome, muttering counterspells straight out of the book. Even looking back at bag of knives and shooting lightning at Glory, bag of knives was woefully ineffective (Buffy could probably parry it just the same as Glory did). Lightning was very powerful and very effective, but also extremely draining. Once Willow uses up all her juice, she has nothing else to fall back on. Dark Willow really is more flash than substance. She has the same problem as Willow: she's swimming in blind power, but has no discipline or even basic understanding of the fundamentals of magic to actually make use of that power in an effective manner.
          • Anya appears to be wrong about Willow not being able to teleport. Her claim is that Willow if flying very fast and not teleporting. However when she leaves Rath's place she brings Buffy and Willow without apparently touching either one of them and with them all staying in the same locations relative to each other. If she didn't teleport she folded space, she certainly wasn't just flying really fast. She is also using her magic, albiet very little, in the fight with Buffy. At least twice she magics a staircase into Buffy and a table. Whatever spell Anya was casting was specifically protecting the Duo from Willow. When you're packing the kind of raw power that Dark Willow has you don't really need much in the way of knowledge to get the job done. Not any more than Superman needs to learn martial arts to win a fight.
            • You do if you want to be able to use any of it effectively, especially when it's as unstable as magic generally demonstrates it to be. One recurring theme with Willow's magic is that it never really does what she wants it to do. She has terrible control over it. That isn't the difference between Superman and Martial Artist Superman, so much as it is the difference between Martial Artist Superman and Constantly Burning His Own Hands Off And Freezing His Legs Because He Can't Control Any Of His Powers Superman. The blind part of Willow's blind power causes her to overexert herself with the big rig, throw out flashy but pointless attacks like the slow-moving, inaccurate homing fireball, and keeps her from being able to break through a counterspell barrier being raised by an amateur. There's a reason she goes down like a sack of bricks when Giles walks into the room; a sledgehammer may be big and scary, but it goes down fast when put up against anyone with actual training.
        • And her reason for the world needing to burn was because Giles gave her the True Magic and she was able to feel all the pain from everybody. She wasn't burning the world because we were evil and took Tara away. She was putting us out of our misery. Most of us aren't miserable enough to want someone to blow it all up but shh couldn't take it. If she hadn't been able to feel everybodies pain she would have stopped after precisely three kills.
          • There is no evidence that Willow would of stopped after three kills. She was angry and wanted targets. The thing about blood lust is that once you get started, it's very hard to stop. Allowing Willow to kill two people purely out of vengeance would have meant that the entire cast would of crossed the Moral Event Horizon.
            • The Moral Event Horizon was when Buffy betrayed Willow and supported rapist murderer Warren. Seeing as how this never came remotely close to happening, though, it's a non-issue.
          • It definitely would have mean a Moral Event Horizon and I suppose that's a decent answer. But up until Giles dosed her she had very specific targets with very specific reasons. We in the audience sympathize because we know these are a bunch of kids playing Super Villian. From Willow's point of view it's two thirds of the group that killed Tara and nearly killed Buffy. We already saw Kill Bill. As long as your not between the girl on the Roaring Rampage of Revenge and whoever she wants dead you're perfectly safe.
            • The difference here is that Willow was locked into her emotional state by the dark magic she'd absorbed. She wouldn't ever stop, she went from Warren (which even the Scoobies weren't against, their protests were solely about possible harmful effects on Willow's psyche from committing murder, and Xander and Dawn in particular were firmly on the kill Warren train), to trying to kill Jonathan and Andrew, whom she knew had been in prison and had nothing to do with Tara's murder, to anyone standing in her way (Buffy, Giles, Anya, Xander) and anyone who showed up in front of her (Dawn). Willow tried to kill Dawn, who wasn't a threat and was just talking to her, even mocking Tara's death while doing it. Willow was way past the point of sanity and firmly into psychoville, and had no chance of even starting to recover until the dark magic lost it's hold (Giles planned to take her to the coven so they could remove it from her or, failing that, dose her with white magic and hope it would let her tap back into her other emotions).
  • The logic that's used in show is that the human world has human laws to deal with these things. But they don't. We have no idea what materials are needed to summon a demon or become a superstar. Warren is the only one of the Trio that we can safely assume jail could hold and even that's not clear. It's unclear how versed he was in magic or how hard he could Mac Guyver a cell phone and other electronics you might be able to get into a prison, particularly if you could all but garuantee that you'll get out.
    • Jonathan and Andrew were being contained in prison very effectively until the Scoobies had to help bust them out in order to protect them from Willow. Warren, on the other hand, was an expert in robotics and had no qualms about going to demons for upgrades.
  • Willow zapped Ripper and sucked out his magic. Ripper expected this and laced his magic with heroin and the Destroy the World spell so that if Willow destroyed the World, it would be HER fault, not HIS fault.
    • Gotta disagree. Yes it does seem like he knew there was a strong chance that Willow would drain him but unless he also knew that Xander had this he basically walked into a room with a crazy person with a gun holding the codes for the world's nukes. Sure technically it's the fault of who ever launches the nukes but why would you creat the situation where they can do far far more damage than they currently can or even want to.
      • As I understood it, lacing the magic with emotion was Giles Xanatos Gambit to defeat Willow, much like Faith deliberately dosing herself with drugs to take out Angelus when he fed on her blood in season 4 of Angel. Presumably he was going on 'Plan A: Defeat Willow. Plan B: if Willow defeats me, the white magic she absorbs from me will have her overcome with remorse and she'll stop attacking.' The part where Willow's reaction to suddenly feeling remorse and pain was to go on a world-ending psychotic break was probably way out of left field for Giles, and let's face it, it was a bit of a stretch even for us.
  • "Buffy" tells Willow to let the Police deal with the Nerds and then she breaks the Nerds out of prison because in prison, Andrew might not be able to kill Jonathan.
    • When did she say this?
  • season 6 shows Joss' opinion of Sci Fi fans.
    • Not really. Note that Xander seems to be fans of many of the same things as the Trio and yet is a normal and decent guy. Really, it show's Joss's opinion of Fan Dumb members and those who speak mostly in quotes.

Giles isn't standing in the way

  • Giles sings about standing in the way of Buffy's development into a woman and leaves for England for the same reason. I know Buffy is a super hero but her super powers are about kicking ass not super money making or super coping or child raising skills. When you show me the twenty one year old (middle class, don't remind me there are people born with a billion dollars) who's emotionally and financially ready to own a home, and not only be self sufficient but care for and raise a teenager I'll point out none of them had to save the world on a semi-regular basis. I can get that Giles doesn't want to be a father but he's not standing in the way. If anything him shouldering loads that under no regular circumstances (and certainly not Buffy's special circumstances) would a twenty one year old be expected to handle he's letting her grow at a regular pace. I can honestly say that if I had been put in charge of my household on my twenty first birthday things wouldn't have gone as smoothly for me as they did for her.
    • Giles doesn't mind helping Buffy shoulder the burden. He made it obvious from the beginning of the season that he would help her. The problem was that she pushed more and more onto him, and didn't pick up the burden that would actually be reasonable for her to take on. That's why he's standing in her way: there's a lot that she's not ready for, and that's fine, but she'll never be ready as long as she has him to rely on.
      • Buffy's mother recently died, and the girl found herself suddenly orphaned and having to raise a younger sister who was being pursued by an incredibly strong and psychopathic hellgod. Then Buffy died and was later resurrected and had to cope with being yanked out of a comfortable and peaceful afterlife (though the other Scoobies didn't know until the end of "Once More With Feeling"). She's now expected to be a mother to a 14 year old girl, be the main moneymaker in a house full of friends that aren't helping at all (Willow and Tara, as far as we know, didn't lend a penny to Buffy), and save the world, all at the age of 21. Of course she needs Giles' help. Any normal 21 year old would need help in that situation, and Buffy's situation is far worse when you have the Trio added in, and later Willow's magic addiction. Asking Giles for some financial help and parental help is PERFECTLY reasonable, and him leaving her alone when she needs him most was just downright cruel. She had plenty of time to learn to cope for herself, but during times of huge stress, she needed help, and Giles let her down.
        • It's the fine line between going to Giles for help, and using him as a crutch. Buffy was doing the latter; for example, in the aftermath of All the Way, when Giles tried to provide support for Buffy and direct her towards the talk she needed to have with Dawn, and Buffy left Giles to do it instead and took off. As long as she was shirking her responsibilities onto Giles, she would not be able to reintegrate herself in the world; she was becoming a 21-year-old basement dweller, metaphorically speaking, shutting out the world and trying to make her father figure take over all of her responsibilities, and if he let her go down that path, she would never stop. This is one of the hardest things a parent may have to face: knowing when it's time to kick your child out of the nest, because they refuse to grow up, and they have to. Note that after Giles left, Buffy got a job, Buffy stabilized her home, Buffy managed to create attachments to the people in her life again. Buffy started having sex for all the wrong reasons, but it was still more than she'd been able to do before. Being forced to be responsible for her own life was extremely hard for Buffy, but in the end, it allowed her to start living. And when she was capable of living her own life and stopped depending on other people to do it for her, Giles came back.
        • I still think it was cruel for Giles to leave her. Buffy got a job after Giles left, yeah, but she was trying to get one before he left too (see "Life Serial"). Buffy had only been alive for 7 episodes by the time he left (yes, an episode isn't a particularly good unit of time, but it couldn't have been more than a few weeks), there's no proof that she wouldn't have gotten better and more well-adjusted in the same time if he was still around. She was also worried about her friends' feelings and she was hiding the fact that she wasn't in a hell dimension, something that she didn't reveal until the same episode where Giles decided that he was standing in the way. And YMMV as to whether having sex with Spike was a good thing. She shouldn't have tried to push Dawn's welfare onto Giles, but again, she's still recently orphaned, and with everything else she was dealing with, being a mother to Dawn is way too much for people to expect of her so quickly. If felt like he had to leave, he could have at least offered to help financially by sending some money her way from England; money that, if memory serves, Buffy herself got for Giles by bullying the Watcher's Council into reinstating him and giving him his pay retroactively as well. Of course, it's a moot point since it all worked out in the end anyway, but in my opinion, Giles was wrong to leave and wrong about feeling that he was in her way.
        • It absolutely is cruel for Giles to leave when he did! When he sang "Standing in the Way," he didn't know yet that Buffy had been in heaven, so that could be excused. Maybe he thought that she was shell-shocked from being in hell and she needed to walk without his safety net in order to realize that the hell part was really over. But later that night he's there for Buffy's admission that she had been pulled out of heaven. Literally the next night (note Spike's comment to Buffy at the beginning of Tabula Rasa about how they had kissed last night with the rising music and the rising...music), Giles decides to go ahead and leave anyway! (And it's not like the cancellation fee would be a problem...after he found out Buffy was back he returned from England within a day or so, having just left Sunnydale a day or two earlier.) I mean really, who does that? As soon as your surrogate daughter reveals that she's incredibly depressed and was literally pulled out of what she felt was heaven, time to jet? Come on, Rupert!


Have Warren turn the chip off

  • I know complex thoughts aren't always Spike's big point but when the chip malfunctions, or Spike learns subconsciously to trick it (which this troper finds equally plausible as Buffy came back wrong. Though that's more a WMG than Just bugs me. Anyway he goes to Warren whom he knows is a genius capable of building the Buffy Bot to check the status of his chip when he finds out he can hurt Buffy with out it activating. Warren is capable of some off screen process that lets him read the chip which leads to him pointing out that it's still fully functional. Why didn't Spike ask him to turn it off. Sure maybe it can't be done but for it would have taken two seconds and two lines of text to clear this up.
    • Warren may be a technological genius, but he's no surgeon. At least the guy he got in Season 4 worked at a hospital, and I wouldn't assume Warren was too competent at anything except mechanics. I mean, just look at him. Spike probably saw it the same way.
    • I guess. To me that's just just stupid. Spike knows enough about electronics (at least they have on and off switches) that the idea that it didn't occur to him to have Warren disable, not remove but simply deactivate the chip he was looking at is messy. The only possible reason is he might have had to explain WHAT the chip did before Warren would or could and obviously he doesn't want anybody who doesn't already know to know.
    • I never understood why Spike didn't set off an EMP to disable the chip; even if it wasn't something he could have thought of, he spoke to enough science guys that someone could have reasonably suggested it. I don't know the effect EMPs have on humans, but it could have easily been handwaved over him being a vampire.
      • EMP blasts aren't exactly easy to come by.
        • Spike, being undead, is immune to death by electrocution even if it still hurts. High voltage would fry the chip long before it would fry him. It would also hurt like an absolute motherfucker, which is probably why he didn't risk it in canon, but if he got somewhat more desperate then that goes back on the menu of options.
      • Besides, Spike really wouldn't want to take the chance of messing the chip up somehow and making things worse. Trying to remove it is one thing, but leaving it in his head while fiddling with the way it works is a much riskier plan. What if he accidentally switches it on all the time instead?
        • Spike has been shown to be sufficiently reckless that I don't buy that he wouldn't take the chance of it messing up. It's more likely that he's simply unaware of EMPs or much at all of computers. It still doesn't answer why he doesn't ask Warren to turn it off, perhaps telling him is a tracking chip from the Soviets or whatever. Clearly what it does isn't clear enough for Warren to figure out on his own
          • Spike has never been that reckless. When he's in a losing fight or wants to protect Drusilla, he runs away to fight another day. When he first decides he wants to kill Buffy, he does research on her fighting style and behavior patterns first. When he can't hurt humans or defend himself anymore, he immediately (if very reluctantly) switches allegiances. For all his show of being impulsive, Spike's really one of the more careful vampires we've seen in the series. There is no way the thought of "what if the chip gets screwed up and the agonizing pain never stops" (which is exactly what eventually happens) hadn't crossed his mind and quickly established itself as one of his worst fears.
          • All true, but remember that in season 4 Spike reached the point where he was willing to dust himself rather than continue to live with the chip. Only the revelation that he was still allowed violence vs. demons pulled him out of that. If Spike ever reaches that point again, deliberately microwaving his head until the chip hopefully breaks is actually a more rational move.
          • Spike may not be the brightest bulb but he's not stupid enough to give the guy with the ability to build fully functional, realistic, borderline sentient robots and no morals full access to the chip that regulates his behaviour. That's like saying 'Please enslave me'. It's one thing to try and get Adam to take it out, Adam had the ability and had nothing to really gain from it, being vastly more powerful than Spike already with an army of minions to command, Warren had two lackeys who were useless in combat, Spike would have been a great prize for him.
          • Along those same lines, even if the chip can be turned off remotely, the moment Spike reveals to Warren that he wants it turned off, Warren has leverage over him. Warren doesn't have to know what it does, just that Spike can't control it and he can. From there, all he has to do is hold onto the switch and tell Spike "now do what I say or I'll flip whatever that thing is back on again".
          • Especially when the chip's function is that it prevents Spike from hurting any humans. If Warren found that out, he loses all leverage he had. Sure, Spike could still break their possessions, but he couldn't hurt any of the Trio, even if they started attacking him. Even three klutzes like the Trio could do some damage when the person they're attacking can't hurt them back.

Buffy's Financial Responsibility

  • So basically, Willow and Tara were taking care of Dawn and living in Buffy's house the whole time Buffy was dead, and neither of them saw fit to get a job so that when the life insurance ran out they wouldn't be screwed? And then once Buffy comes back it's automatically her job to earn money AND save the world, and if she asks for help from Giles she's being immature? Like Buffy says, she was "all dead and frugal," she wasn't the one spending the money. Not that Willow or Tara were reckless with money, but it needs to be replaced when you spend it! Shouldn't they have taken a little responsibility for that?
    • Look Buffy's name is in the title, everything that goes wrong is her fault period end stop. I'm almost amazed that Angel joining Wolfram & Hart isn't somehow Buffy's fault. She did stop him from wearing the amulet that she instead gave to Spike you know.
    • It should be Buffy's responsibility. It's her house, and Dawn is her sister. Buffy is trying to play mother with Dawn, and gets all that comes with it. Also, Giles may be a nice guy, help out financially, and play daddy sometimes, but he is of no relation to Buffy, and thus under no obligation to help her out. The only one under any obligation was maybe Willow and Tara for rent money, but still.
      • Giles isn't Buffy's relative, but he is for all thoughts and purposes her employer, directing her in a hard, dangerous and thankless job, performing a service that everybody needs but nobody wants to acknowledge. Getting a decent steady paycheck for it wouldn't be too much to ask, and Giles is independently wealthy shop owner, and gets a double-pay from the Council of Watcers, to boot.
      • A paycheck from the Council that Buffy helped him get, I might add; if it wasn't for her finally standing up to the Council, stopping all the bullshit going, and demanding that Giles be reinstated as a Watcher with his full salary and retroactively receive all the money he was owed during his unemployment, Giles wouldn't have a penny from the Council.
    • I agree, you would think Tara and Willow would at least pay rent or chip in for bills - since they are living there and all. Not to mention the fact that their dear friend, who has just lost her mother and, traumatisingly; come back from the dead. They don't seem all that supportive. It's, "Good Buffy's back now, here's the bills. Good luck with that. We're gonna go back to being carefree young adults, while you work 16-hour days at a menial job. Don't forget to save the world in your off hours. What are you doing with your life? You need to go back to college!"
    • It also makes me wonder what they would have done if Buffy hadn't returned. Obviously, they had planned to bring her back, and we can probably assume that at this point, Willow was extremely certain that Buffy would return. However, it still strikes me as odd that they didn't do anything about the bills themselves.


Riley returns

  • Riley comes to Sunnydale to show off his new bride, who is the daughter of Xena and Einstein. He rubs Buffy's nose with the fact that Buffy is being a skanky ho. His official mission is that the Villain of the Week has a plan to destroy the World. And the Villain is Spike. 4 years of character development down the pan. But it is conveniently forgotten next week.
    • Whose character development? Spike's? Spike had no character development, he just transferred his obsession from Drusilla to Buffy and had his behaviour restricted by the chip. What's the first thing Spike does in Smashed when he thinks the chip has stopped working? Attack innocent people. He may have been filtering his behaviour through the "what would make Buffy happy and therefore like me better" lense but his basic personality and goals remained the same throughout those four seasons. Yes, he loves Buffy. Yes, he likes Dawn and Joyce. You really think that would have spared them had the chip not been working? He loved his mother and Drusilla too, he murdered the first and planned to murder the second as well. Spike may truely believe that he'll be Buffy's knight in bloody armour but his behaviour shows time and again he's entirely selfish and purely evil until he gets his soul back.
    • Spike's plan wasn't to destroy the world. It was to make money by selling some valuable demon eggs he had happened to come across. Remember in Doublemeat Palace when he objected to Buffy working in that place, saying "I can get money"? This was how he was going to do it. It's entirely consistent with his character development up to this point. What doesn't make sense is how the hell Spike, of all people, is in contact with a bunch of foreign governments who want to buy the eggs.
      • That's not character development. It's simply him transferring his obsession and needs to please one woman (Drusilla) to a new woman (Buffy). Spike does whatever his woman tells him to or what he thinks will please her. Quite frankly, Spike is horrible in season 6, he got what he wanted and he makes sure Buffy stays in that place emotionally so he can keep getting it. He doesn't care about her well being, he admits in the second episode of the season he wouldn't have let the Scoobies get rid of Buffy, regardless of how she came back, as long as he has what he wants to hell with everything else. Spike has no soul, he can feel, he can like, he can love but he can't function as a real person because he can't make that connection. When Buffy thinks she's killed someone he only sees the problem as her getting caught, not that she'd be horrified, when she finally gives in and sleeps with him he sees it as a good thing, not Buffy's self esteem crashing through the ground, he fights demons because he likes to kill, not because he thinks they need to be stopped, and to act as Buffy's knight. It's all about what he wants and whichever images he's made up for himself at the moment but in the end his true nature always shines through. He's the exact same in season 6 as he was in season 2, just with a different focus for his obsession and a leash keeping him in check.
        • And yet, he was ready to die for Dawn when Glory had him chained up. He went out of his way to find and protect her when the demon biker gang came to town, when he could have just spent it reveling in killing the demons; Dawn's wellbeing was Spike's first priority in both instances, and Buffy was supposed to be too dead to care in the latter case. When he thought his chip was disabled, he did go out to kill someone, but he had to spend a couple minutes talking himself up to the deed. That scene more or less defines Spike's character in S6; it's not that he's changed, and it's also not that he hasn't. He's both. He's conflicted between S2 Spike and S5 Spike, do I kill her, do I love her, do I damn her, do I save her, etc. etc, which is made particularly clear in his extremely conflicted part of Walk Through the Fire. "I'm free if that bitch dies/I'd better help her out", "No, I'll save her, THEN I'll kill her", etc. Spike has and has not changed, and he doesn't know who he wants to be anymore. "It won't let me be a monster, and I can't be a man."


Why is the tower still there?

  • It's been several months since the end of Buffy Season 5. Why is that tower still up? It was built by crazy people without city permission. Why would the city leave something so unsafe standing around? And IIRC, the thing crashes to the ground with little provocation. How did something so unstable last that many months?
    • It's in an out of the way location, so nobody messes with it.
      • They probably thought it would bring in the tourists, kind of like the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Wouldn't you like to take a forced perspective photo where it looks like you're holding up the Rickety Tower That the Crazy People Built?


Bad Touching

  • There is a scene in "Wrecked" where Willow is taking what is clearly a Shower of Angst. Question: Is it a Shower of Angst because of the dru... dark magic, or is it because Rack found himself lost beneath her Willow tree.
    • When an attractive young woman goes to visit a drug dealer, doesn't pay him any money in return for getting for her fix, there's a fade to black, and then she comes back feeling in dire need of a shower... um, let's just say that this is a pretty familiar script. The implication is clearly meant to be that Willow was prostituting herself for dru... dark magic.

Giles is (Not) Dying

  • Ok. Giles tells Anya that he's dying either from the asskicking he just received from Dark Willow or from her yoinking his powers. I'll buy that; he certainly acts and looks like he's dying. Then, at the end of the episode, he just sits back up and walks out with surprisingly little help from Anya. What the hell happened? Did Willow choosing not to destroy the world somehow heal him? Anya even brings this up, but he just answers her about why the rest of the world isn't dead. And even if he'd been wrong that he was dying, he still looked pretty bad and spent the last half of that episode going in and out of consciousness. How did he just get up and walk away?
    • It was stated at some point during the episode that his magic had been returned to him. Whether the complete lack of magic was killing him, or if the presence of magic helped him recover faster, that was what saved his life.
    • There was still a link between Giles and Dark Willow created by her draining his power, and her dark magic was spilling over into him and killing him. Once the coven's magic and Xander did their purifying thing and she turned back into regular Willow, he wasn't being spiritually poisoned anymore.
      • Ok, that makes sense, except it was never said. About Willows powers poisoning him.
  1. ↑ While Spike was physically incapable of following through on his threat to mangle Warren if he didn't get what he wanted Warren didn't know that, so, still counts.
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