Broken Base/Western Animation

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.


Western Animation is no exception to the rule: the surest sign of a fan is their hatred for other fans.

  • The fans of The Simpsons all got along fine back in the old days, but are now very divisive when it comes to later seasons.
    • Fans have widely varying opinions on when the show began to go downhill. Some consider it to be Seasons 9 and /or 10, due to Mike Scully taking over as showrunner and some episodes that didn't go over well with fans, most notably the infamous "The Principal and the Pauper". Others, however, consider these seasons to be part of the show's Golden Age and instead consider Seasons 11 and 12 to be the start of the decline, due to flanderization of the characters, the humor becoming cruder to compete with Family Guy and some jump the shark episodes. Then there are those who take it a step further and say that the decline happened sometime after Season 12. This leads into another debate. Some consider Seasons 13-15 to be an improvement over Seasons 11 and 12, while others consider 13-15 even worse than 11 and 12. Most can agree, however, that there has been a steady decline from at least Season 16 until Season 32, where the show began to improve.
    • In general with the later seasons, some believe that the series is just as good as it ever was, while others think it has been going on for too long now and that the newer episodes are stupid and unfunny. Then there are some who acknowledge that the overall quality may have gone down, but are satisfied if it still makes them laugh a few dozen times an episode.
  • Family Guy is in basically the same position as The Simpsons now.
    • Sexually ambiguous Stewie vs evil genius Stewie.
    • Multiple reviewers have complained that the newest seasons have effectively run out of ideas and don't make any effort to try new things, while fans have either sympathized their position or sided with Seth MacFarlane and see them as ridiculous.
  • Futurama is catching up too, but nowhere near as much as The Simpsons.
    • Though it's fashionable among critics to bash the "new episodes," there's a lot of internal debate as to at what precise season/year/moment the show begins being "new."
    • The movies especially tend to be love-it or hate-it. Some were just happy to have new Futurama after 5 years. Others felt that it wasn't doing justice to the original run. The debate has (mostly) settled down, with people agreeing that the problem was format, having to create a movie that could be divided into four television episodes, something nobody (except for Family Guy) has done before or since.
  • SpongeBob SquarePants
    • The quality of each season varies greatly among fans.
      • Fans are split between those who like every season of the show and those who think the seasonal rot era (Seasons 6-8) are either downright unwatchable or simply inferior to earlier seasons, but can still be enjoyable.
      • Season 1 is either considered to be as much of a part of the Golden Age as Seasons 2 & 3 or of lesser quality due to its Early Installment Weirdness. Nevertheless, Season 1 is still widely popular among fans.
      • While the general consensus of Seasons 4 & 5 is that their inferior to the first three seasons and initially started the downfall of the series, there are some fans who consider them to be as good as the first three seasons. Others, however, only include Season 4 as part of the Golden Age and exclude Season 5. Nevertheless, these seasons have been Vindicated By History.
      • Fans alternate between Seasons 3, 4 or 5 as to which was the last good season before the series’ downfall. Alternatively, fans alternate between Seasons 4, 5, or 6 as to which was the first bad season.
      • Season 8 also gets this. A number of fans consider it to be a minor improvement over Seasons 6 & 7, but there’s others who view it as no different to said seasons.
    • The change in animation over the years has garnered varying opinions from fans.
      • Back in Season 1, the show used traditional cel animation. Starting in Season 2, the show switched to digital ink and paint animation. Some view the change to digital ink and paint as an improvement over the traditional cel animation as it makes the show look more appealing and welcoming. Some are fine with both. Others, however, prefer the traditional cel animation as it makes the show look vintage and unique.
      • Starting in Season 10, the show has wackier and more Deranged Animation. Some like it for giving the show more energy, while others find that it's overdone and prefer the more laid-back pace of the animation used in earlier seasons.
  • Most fans agree that the Transformers franchise has had its ups and downs, but which is which is forever the subject of heated debate. Transformers Animated is simultaneously the best and worst show ever.
    • Or maybe the franchise has been Ruined FOREVER (the trope naming franchise, actually): "Fans realize something Hasbro does not, that robust 25-year-old billion-dollar franchises, while seemingly healthy, are in actuality as fragile as two bricks tied together with tissue paper." That line pretty much describes the fanbase's position on everything.
    • There are Transformers fans who think the original was the ONLY series, with all other subsequent series to be inferior knockoffs. These people are known as "Geewunners", and can be identified by their distinctive rallying cry of "TRUKK NOT MUNKY!"
  • Thomas the Tank Engine
    • A lot of longtime fans argue about who was the best narrator for the show's early years. Ringo Starr or George Carlin?
    • Fans also have varying opinions on when the show began to go downhill. While a number of fans say that this happened when Hit Entertainment took over the show and the original crew left, some take it a step further, saying that this happened when the show stopped making adaptions of the RWS books and started making their own plots for episodes.
    • Fans have widely varying opinions on some of the seasons in terms of quality:
      • Seasons 6 & 7, the last two seasons of the classic era and the “Gullane Era” (which is what they’re referred to by a number of fans), while still generally well received, are split between those who consider them to be just as good as the first five seasons and those who consider them to be inferior due to laying the groundwork for the decline in quality of later seasons.
      • Season 8: the last good season or the first bad one? Though it's often considered to be the former in more recent years due to it being Vindicated by History and also in comparison to Seasons 9-16.
      • The general consensus of Season 12 alternates between being So Okay It's Average(similarly to Seasons 9-11) or the nadir of the series (much like Seasons 13-16) among fans.
      • Season 19 has a rather mixed reception among fans. Some like it for experimenting with new ideas and the improvement in animation. Others, however, dislike it for it for being overly experimental and inconsistent.
        • Speaking of the “Brenner era”, while Seasons 18 & 20 are considered to be the best seasons of the era and some of the best seasons of the series, fans have varying opinions on which season of the “Brenner era” is the weakest: Season 17 for its Early Installment Weirdness? Season 19 for its Denser and Wackier tone? Or Season 21 for laying the groundwork for the “Big World! Big Adventures!” era?
      • Seasons 22-24, the "Big World! Big Adventures!” era, are the most divisive seasons of the series. Some fans like it for being a change of pace and testing different dynamics by incorporating the international engines (both new and returning The Great Race characters), while others hate it due to the faster pacing, Nia and Rebecca joining the main cast purely to force in more female representation, Edward, Toby, and Henry's roles being diminished to make way for Nia and Rebecca and appease the feminists who frequently target the show for its predominantly-male cast, and the focus on more gimmicks such as unrealistic fantasy sequences, over-the-top stunts (some of which actually take place outside of fantasy sequences) and wild animals. Some also hate the involvement of the United Nations on the new series, due to them pushing agendas and prioritizing cultural and political messages over the storytelling. Everyone, though, agrees that this Mattel made this retool specifically to compete with PAW Patrol, which had taken a considerable amount of Thomas' market share.
  • Ben 10 fans can't seem to decide amongst themselves whether Gwen is the only good thing about the show or its debilitating ruination. Her Alien Force version gets a lot of this too.
    • Strange as it sounds, nobody really questions whether or not Ben and Gwen are "meant to be together", as it's more of whether or not the Gwen/Kevin relationship was an ass-pulled cover story, or a legitimate attempt to separate characters they forgot were related (ironically, they WEREN'T supposed to be related: it was last-minute to give them a good reason why Gwen should even be on the trip).
    • Ben 10: Alien Force. You either Love It or Hate It.
  • Toonami fans were split on TOM4 (the weird flat-faced robo-alien one). Naturally, they were also split when the original TOM replaced Moltar. As well, Cartoon Network's Network Decay propagates this.
  • Avatar: The Last Airbender fandom are notorious for this. The Zutara fans and Kataang fans get into Ship-to-Ship Combat for example. There's other Die for Our Ship moments that annoy the more sane fans of the show.
    • Season three is also controversial for the fanbase. If you don't like it and explain why, you're likely be harassed for not being a 'true fan', but if you do like it, you're dismissed as a drooling, zealot fanboy/girl.
    • Azula's series finale Villainous Breakdown is a subject of much controversy as well. People who think the influence of Azula's father on her actions gives her a valid Freudian Excuse, and that Azula deserves to be forgiven and redeemed, are accused of downplaying her numerous wicked actions over the course of the series, including advocating genocide of the Earth Kingdom in the finale. People who think that Azula has no excuse for her actions, and that not only was her Villainous Breakdown well-deserved, but that she deserves to spend the rest of her life suffering in prison, are accused of overlooking Azula's mental fragility and her father's influence on her actions. The fact that Bryke left Azula's fate ambiguous will likely leave fans warring over this issue for a long time.
    • How Aang defeats Ozai has created quite the break, itself. There are those who feel Aang's "spiritbending" trick (or as many call it "The Easy Button") was a lame Ass Pull for the sole purpose of not having Aang kill Ozai, rendering three seasons worth of training to master Water, Earth, and Firebending worthless. Others feel that if Aang hadn't mastered the elements and achieved true Avatar status, he never would've been able to access the spiritbending trick at all and saw it as a perfectly acceptable third option. And, of course, there's the overwhelmed minority who's just willing to chalk it up to Rule of Cool and apply the MST3K Mantra to any argument to "how".
    • When M. Night Shyamalan was announced as director of the (live action) movie, it was treated as either a horrible disaster or Snark Bait. A very small third group was genuinely excited. Tensions only worsened with each casting announcement, due to now infamous Race Lifts. In the aftermath of its release, factions split into Love It or Hate It extremes.
  • Sequel Series The Legend of Korra is even more prone to ideological splits.
    • The fan base is divided over the Steampunk setting, even though the original series already used it on a smaller scale.
    • Confirmation that Tenzin is Katara and Aang's son has paradoxically caused a resurgence in Zutara/Kataang shipping wars (complete with Die for Our Ship).
    • A comment by Andrea Romano revealing that the entire original cast is dead prompted some sections to deem Korra and her crew Replacement Scrappys.
    • With the new trailer some fans begain debating whether or not the setting is too modern.
    • There are also some concerns that the setting has become too Western.
    • One of the biggest points of contention is over Korra's race and ethnicity. One side insists that Korra is of color, and fanworks depicting her with lighter or white skin trivialize the importance of a dark-skinned woman as main character. The other claims that race is a nonissue with fictional characters, and Korra's skintone should be a matter of fan creators' individual preferences. Rather curious considering that Korra shares an ethnicity and skintone with Katara and Sokka, and the Water Tribe are explicitly based on the Inuit.
    • Another contention over Korra is the depiction of her build. Much like with the aforementioned skintone issue, it largely breaks into two camps. The first decries any fanwork that depicts Korra with less developed muscle tone than in canon. The second camp claims that Korra's build should be a matter of fan creators' individual preference. Depictions of Korra with greater muscle tone than in canon draw far fewer complaints.
    • Following the online premiere of the first two episodes, the fanbase fractured again, this time over whether or not Korra is being written as a white saviour-esque character in regards to bender privilege.
  • The Danny Phantom fandom has an ongoing war between "true fans" and "anti-fans." The true fans believe in only writing fandom and drawing Fan Art they believe creator Butch Hartman would approve of, and tend towards being Moral Guardians over any fora they're part of. The anti-fans, on the other hand, believe in fanart as an expression of the fan's thoughts and fantasies, from crack/fandom pairings to drawing porn of the characters (which was probably how the war started anyway).
  • The '90s X-Men cartoon, Adaptation Distillation or Adaptation Decay?
  • The Daria fanbase was once split over the issue of Character Development. Some enjoyed watching Daria open up to her peers, make new friends, get a boyfriend, soften her hard line, etc. Others, identified much more closely with Daria as a cynical misanthrope, declared They Changed It, Now It Sucks.
  • The Boondocks is either a funny, thought-provoking show, or it's in danger of becoming what Dave Chappelle feared his show was turning into (i.e. a show that was getting the wrong kind of laughs, for the wrong reasons from the wrong group of people).
  • There are two main views on South Park: either it really hit its stride when it moved from a show comprised solely of crude, shock-value humor to one focused just as much on social/political commentary, or it completely went to hell by turning into an Author Tract.
    • A lot of characters have been this for the show, as well. Butters was probably the first example. He went from Ensemble Darkhorse when he was a side character to being hated by a lot of fans due to his becoming one of the main characters, and his perceived Flanderization. Nowadays, he's used less often, but more effectively. The thing with South Park is, though, that it can sometimes be as polarizing to its fanbase as it is to people in general. Combine that with a town full of people and the tendency for things to stay relatively the same despite earth-shattering events, and you end up with a show that can have half its fanbase loving how it's using a character/joke/plot/etc., and the other half hating it, meaning the whole thing is constantly a Broken Base, over any number of issues from any given episode.
  • In the case of Ed, Edd 'n' Eddy, it's the episode "If It Smells Like an Ed". There are fans that either hate it for being the cruelest blow to the Eds ever, or consider it among their list of favorites for being the first half-hour episode in the series and have elements of Detective Drama.
  • Did the more character-focused, less humorous 4th season of The Venture Brothers Grow the Beard or Jump the Shark?
  • Teen Titans was notorious for its Robin/Starfire vs. Robin/Raven fandom war. It got so bad that stating your preference was a quick way to make enemies. There were even little online cultures around the ships--Robin/Starfire fandom tended to consider themselves more well-adjusted than the alternative, whereas Robin/Raven fandom often considered themselves more mature due to the complex nature of their fandom.
    • Beast Boy and Raven pretty much won this by being lampshaded in the final season and the closing issues of the comic based on the series, as well as becoming canon in the D.C Universe (albeit in a Will They or Won't They? way).
      • The series finale "Things Change": Brilliant and bittersweet way to end the series where Beast Boy learns a lesson about letting go, or confusing, anti-climactic mess that goes against the mood of the series and leaves way too many unanswered questions?
    • BB / Raven or BB / Terra?
  • An overlap with Film and Live-Action TV: There are two factions of Ghostbusters fans: the Ghostheads, who prefer the Columbia Pictures film and its animated series The Real Ghostbusters, and the Go-ers, fans of Filmation's 1975 live-action series The Ghost Busters and 1986 animated series Filmation's Ghostbusters. The fandom is mostly divided on which animated series came first, and on which ghost-busting premise (proton packs vs. dematerializers) is better.
    • Not so much on which came first; The Ghost Busters came definitively first, which is why the Columbia follow up had to add "The Real" to the title, for copyright.
  • Never, ever bring up the Star Wars: The Clone Wars series on a forum. You will immediately be flamed for liking the new series over the old 2D Clone Wars cartoons. There are people who like the old series because it's more "mature", while the new series is a "kid's show". Then there are the people who say that the old Clone Wars series is "childish, plotless, and completely stupid", while the new Clone Wars series is "full of mature themes, real story, and wonderful characters."
    • Also, never, ever mention Ahsoka Tano. If you do, you will find your thread flooded with people who either think she's a "great character" or is "a pointless, stupid, annoying addition to Star Wars."
  • Tom and Jerry has had a broken base for decades, and it should come as no surprise seeing that the protagonist and the antagonist in any given short is sometimes left up to the viewer's opinion. Jerry's Hatedom can be quite passionate, however.
  • Grow Up Timmy Turner: Live action version of The Fairly Oddparents. This has yet to be aired but already there are people who detest this movie and who view it as violating canon. Also, Shipping Wars play a part in this because according to the live action movie Timmy and Tootie are meant to be Not to mention that many fans point out that it seemingly violates the canon of Channel Chasers On the other hand, there seem to be a number of fans who are looking forward to it.
  • Scooby-Doo fans now have to make the same hard choice Shaggy faces on the new series: his best friend Scooby or his previous partner in mystery solving now romantic interest Velma.
  • When Doug left Nickelodeon for ABC, the base was very broken due to if the new series was good or not.
  • Rugrats fans can't seem to decide whether All Grown Up! was a good idea or if it was a horrible spinoff that killed every element from the source cartoon, the same can be said about the later episodes after the first 65 episodes, as well as Dil and Kimi showing up.
  • The My Little Pony fandom is deeply broken when it comes to the generations. Many fans of the original series hated My Little Pony Tales due to the Anthropomorphic Shift and Slice of Life elements compared to the fantasy based original; along with the more cartoony look. Some fans hate the Lighter and Softer original series in comparison to the dark and gritty Sugar Apocalypse ridden pilot. Fans of those series are torn between whether G3 was good or not, especially due to the fact it's way more sweet then the generations before it. A lot of the modern "bronies" hate anything that isn't My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic. But most of the fanbase agrees that the short-lived G3.5 was a horrible idea.
    • This spreads to fans of the toy series. G2 gets the most hate, due to the fact the toys look nothing like any other toy for the series before or after. G4 gets a reasonable amount of hate too, both from fans of My Little Pony toys and the typical fan of the source cartoon, due to Show Accuracy, Toy Accuracy. Although a lot of the hate to the G4 toys is mainly because Princess Celestia is pink.
    • Fans and haters alike seem to be disputed over the gory fanfiction Cupcakes. Was it a funny bit of harmless fun or was it the pioneer of the even worse fanon to come?
    • Also, mention Rule 34 on any pony thread and watch the flames spread. Good example: Ponychan (the most serious) vs fimchan (the porn) vs Ponibooru (the troll)
    • The Friendship Is Magic lot has recently[when?] broken themselves, over Derpy Hooves. In the red corner: People who are tickled pink that Derpy got a speaking role, some of them because this is exactly how they imagined Derpy speaking and some because they're just thrilled she got a speaking role period, regardless of how close it is to their headcanon. In the blue corner: People who feel that the particular way that Derpy was voiced is a jab at people with mental disabilities, and are demanding some sort of restitution (or at least apology) from Hasbro and Studio B for perpetuating hurtful stereotypes.
      • And in the yellow corner: people who are offended at the blue corner's reaction that the mentally handicapped need to be coddled, and cannot be depicted on television for fear of offending them. Unfortunate Implications are abound.
      • The heat started to rise when "The Last Roundup" was removed from iTunes, and all merchandise with "Derpy" in it was renamed or removed from official stores. The issue appears to have reached critical mass now, however, as the episode has returned to iTunes with Derpy's voice changed and her name removed. The episode's writer and Hasbro itself acknowledged that it was basically a "no-win situation".
      • Season 5 has brought Derpy back to the screen, given her her voice back, changed that voice to closely match the most popular fan version of her voice (BaldDumboRat's portrayal from "Dr. Whooves and the Assistant"), given her a close friendship with Dr. Whooves/Time Turner, made her a Lovable Ditz again, and in general promoted all of Derpy's most popular fanon to canon. The only thing they did was change the character's name -- she's officially credited as "Muffin". Of course, as they never actually have her addressed by name on-screen, the entire fanbase has agreed to ignore this and still calls her Derpy. So long as the writers politely refrain from rubbing our noses in the name change, fan consensus appears to be that we'll just be happy for what we've got.
    • Then there's the kerfuffle over "The Mysterious Mare Do Well", over whether the main cast's plan to deflate Rainbow Dash's ego was needlessly cruel and humiliating, or whether it was a much needed bonk on the head to keep Rainbow Dash's grandstanding from hurting someone.
      • And then there's a third side that says while Rainbow Dash did need to be taken down a peg or two, the execution in which it is done was lacking. Many reviewers have voiced the opinion that if there was a small scene in which the rest of the Mane Cast expressed their concerns with Dash's growing hubris and she disregarded them prior to their taking up the mantle of Mare Do Well, the aesop wouldn't be broken. In short, this third side straddles both camps, agreeing that Rainbow Dash needed a lesson in humility, but the lack of context and the botched manner in which it was portrayed made it seem like the rest of the cast's actions were needlessly cruel.
    • And now there's a fair amount of debate over the fan-game Fighting Is Magic. The fans are divided between Rainbow Crash 88's instrumental themes (Applejack's and Twilight's) and Whitetail's electro-style themes (Rarity's and Pinkie's).
  • The Warner Bros fanbase is very divided over Loonatics Unleashed. Some see it as an interesting take on Looney Tunes that needed some work but is still So Cool Its Awesome, while others see it as an utter disgrace that made Avery and Jones spin in their graves.
  • Most Ren and Stimpy fans agree that the Games Animation episodes should be stricken from the record, but it's still pretty torn up the middle on whether or not "Adult Party Cartoon" was any good.
  • While Kennedy Cartoons had a bit of a Hatedom for a while, many fans began supporting them to the point where now fans are divided whether their bouncy animation was very well done or very ugly.
  • In a less extreme case of the above, people are divided on whether Toon City is on par with TMS Entertainment, Studio Ghibli, Carbunkle Cartoons, Star Toons, Disney's studios in Los Angeles, Japan, and Australia, and the like, or if they're only on par with the likes of Rough Draft Studios, Moi Animation, DR Movie, and JM Animation.
  • Hey Arnold! fans are hotly divided on the infamous cliffhanger ending to the series. Because of a rumored final movie that was to have resolved the show's remaining plotlines, fans are now divided between those who are fighting for the movie's revival and those who are satisfied with how things ended, or feel the movie would not live up to a decade's worth of built-up fan expectations. Mentioning which "side" you are on is a quick way to start a bloody argument.
  • Was the 1987 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles the best adaptation of the turtles and a great cartoon, unfaithful but a decent show in its own right, or a horrific injustice to the franchise?
  • The later seasons of Ed, Edd 'n' Eddy had the kids attending school. Some fans thought it was a refreshing change of pace, others thought it was the series Jumping the Shark.
  • Recess fans are torn on the DTV movie, Recess: Taking the Fifth Grade, which was released two years after the show ended. One side loves it, while the other side found it too boring compared to the rest of the series. Both bases do agree, however, that T.J.'s new voice actor whomped.
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