Women, on average, are shorter than men. And a good number of men find petite women charming. Because of this, in our society, tall girls and women often feel awkward and out of place, and some men will feel uncomfortable when it comes to having a relationship with a woman who towers over them, similar to someone stronger than them.
But then there are some women for whom this trope applies. These are the women whose overall charm comes from their height. Even if they themselves don't acknowledge it, the story and/or characters make it clear that her height is one of her distinguishing charms. Also, in fiction, tall women tend to be Tomboys and sometimes fall into the Action Girl archetype. Due to their extreme height, they will often have nice, long legs.
They are also quite common in the Superhero genre and often accompanied by the Most Common Superpower. And as with Most Common Superpower, sometimes tall heroines are so much the norm that they have to be extremely tall to really stand out. Looking at published Canon references like DC's Who's Who and Marvel's Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, one gets the impression that the average height for female characters is something like 5'10" or 5'11" (and that for male characters, it's about 6'3").
Please note that for a woman to qualify for this trope, she needs to fulfill two criteria:
- She must be either taller than most men in her setting or stand at least 5'8" (172 cm) tall.
- She must either be considered attractive in-universe or be accompanied by Fan Service tropes (Stripperiffic, Male Gaze, etc.).
Not to be confused with Tall, Dark and Bishoujo, a character trope mainly used to describe women who are aloof, in addition to often having long, dark hair, and being tall, but not necessarily to the point of inclusion under this trope. They can overlap, though. Also not to be confused with Taken for Granite.
- Half of the premise of Lovely Complex is Risa Koizumi, a girl taller than average. The other half being Atsushi Ootani, a boy shorter than usual.
- An older manga (and anime; from the same studio, no less) called "The Kabocha Wine (The Pumpkin Wine)" has a similar premise.
- Makoto (Sailor Jupiter) from Sailor Moon is the tallest and strongest of the Inner Senshi. Haruka (Sailor Uranus) takes it to even more drastic levels.
- Fuyumi Kujirakawa from Great Teacher Onizuka.
- In Airmaster, the eponymous streetfighter—real name, "Maki"—is this, as well as a Huge Schoolgirl and an Action Girl. During the opening, she's seen walking through an average, crowded Tokyo street—heads and shoulders above everyone else. Most of her height is in her legs, which is handy since they're also her main weapon. As for being "stunning"... well, several guys in the show seems to think so, at least.
- Viletta Nu, Cornelia Li Britannia, Rakshata Chawla, and Milly Ashford from Code Geass.
- Sakaki from Azumanga Daioh, is simply huge for a 16 year old japanese girl at 1.74m. This troubles her a lot as she's very shy and obsessed with everything small and cute.
- If we tried to list all the examples in Claymore, we'd be here all day, so it's easier to list the exceptions. Miata, and that's pretty much it.
- Rangiku Matsumoto of Bleach skirts the line at 5'8", but her height is most definitely not her most noticeable trait.
- Isane Kotetsu is very tall at 6'1". And she's adorably awkward about it.
- Nel Tu, in her true, adult form (the former 3rd Espada Nelliel Tu Odelschwanck), stands at a height of 176 cm (roughly 5'10"). As such, she's one of the few female characters taller than the 174 cm (5'9") hero Ichigo. Befitting of her status, she's also one of the few ladies who rivals (if not equals) Rangiku in terms of cup size.
- According to the latest Databook, there's also the current 3rd Espada Tier Harribel (175 cm/5'9") and Franceska Mila Rose (177 cm/5'9½"), one of Harribel's Fracción. If you know how Tite Kubo loves his ladies, it should be no surprise that these two women are just as endowed, and more Stripperiffic to boot.
- Rider from Fate/stay night, so very much. Also voiced in the anime by the same woman who VA'ed Sakaki, above.
- Noi of Dorohedoro is very tall (according to the Japanese Wikipedia, she's about 6'10"). She's quite buxom as well. Despite Most Common Superpower, she's been mistaken for a man numerous times by other characters, and most readers tend to get a Samus Is a Girl moment when they see her maskless for the first time. Fan art tends to depict her carrying her partner Shin in her arms.
- Sakura from Urusei Yatsura.
- In the manga Walkin' Butterfly, the protagonist bemoans the fact that she's super-tall until she realizes that most models are actually quite tall.
- Mai Kujaku/Valentine of Yu-Gi-Oh! stands almost eye to eye with Katsuya Jounouchi/Joey Wheeler.
- An excellent example from One Piece: Boa Hancock, whose official height is a whopping 191 cm (that's over six feet three inches), yet she is very obviously beautiful both to readers and in-universe characters. In fact, she's called the most beautiful woman in the world at one point. It fits, since she's the empress of an island of amazons.
- The gender flipped version of Russia in Axis Powers Hetalia is a very beautiful, long-haired Winter Royal Lady who easily is the tallest of the Nyotalia girls.
- Also, the genderflipped version of Sweden is a Lady of War with glasses and just as long hair. We're not sure of how exactly tall she is, but consider that the original Sweden is at least 6'0"...
- Urd and her mother Hild of Ah! My Goddess.
- Hikaru Ohno of Take On Me. Quoting the character intro, she's "Six foot one of fun fun fun!"
- Milly Thompson from Trigun.
- Naga of Slayers is every bit as tall as she is busty. Which is to say, very much so.
- Mahou Sensei Negima gives us several: Kaede (181 cm), Chachamaru (174 cm), Mana (184 cm), Akira (175 cm), Ayaka (173 cm), and Chizuru (172 cm). All regularly wear Stripperiffic clothing or nothing at all and the only potential Love Interests for them are 10. Lampshaded by Chisame on how her class is so abnormal in every aspect including beauties, breast size, and height.
- Kagari Ayaka from Witch Craft Works. The male protagonist Honoka barely reaches her chest (although the size seems to change from chapter to chapter), making her at least 6 feet tall. She is also a Tall, Dark and Bishoujo Kuudere with G-cup breasts, dark, thigh-long hair (except when she is in battle, where it becomes fire-like), and a very nice body. It shows in the many, many, many instances where she carry Honoka bride style.
- Tsubaki Natsukasa from Soul Eater.
- Brioche from Dog Days.
- Angel from The Big O is 5' 10".
- Big Barda is... well... BIG. As seen in the trope image, she towers over her husband Scott/Mr. Miracle, and indeed over most heroes, male or female.
- In addition to being a Hot Amazon and Amazonian Beauty, She Hulk is this trope as well.
- Knockout, another of the Apokoliptian New Gods, and a supporting character in the Superboy and Secret Six books, also qualifies.
- Wonder Woman, of course. And many other women from Paradise Island, as well. In Wondy's case this is especially noticeable in Justice League: The New Frontier when she gets down from a table she was standing on and shows that she's taller than Superman.
- Starfire of the Teen Titans is especially tall at 6'4" (with Eighties Hair and heels often adding even more inches to that!).
- Maxima, sometime-villain, sometime-heroine and one-time suitor of Superman, had a stature befitting her name, standing at 6'2".
- Other DC Comics superheroines qualify, though sometimes inconsistently, Depending on the Artist:
- Huntress (listed at 5'11")
- Power Girl (listed at 5'11")
- Raven (sometimes listed at 5'11")
- Supergirl tends to be portrayed as a woman of roughly above average height at 5'7", but occasionally taller, particularly if shown as her "future self" of Superwoman. Not too surprising, since Power Girl is essentially Supergirl's "grownup" counterpart from a parallel Earth.
- Andromeda, Supergirl's Captain Ersatz in the Legion of Super-Heroes, is 6'2".
- Carol Danvers is 5'11", and she's largely considered to be Marvel's Alternate Company Equivalent of Wonder Woman.
- Power Princess of the Squadron Supreme, Marvel's Captain Ersatz of Wonder Woman. Her official height is listed as 6'8", four inches taller than Hyperion, the Squadron's Captain Ersatz of Superman.
- Power Princess' Darker and Edgier counterpart from the Supreme Power universe is slightly shorter at 6'3" and while she's always been drawn tall she was originally more of a thin supermodel type. Then Frank Cho started drawing her in The Ultimates.
- Storm of the X-Men, at 5'11", certainly qualifies.
- Psylocke, also of the X-Men, is likewise 5'11". Her former crime fighting partner Captain UK, real name Linda McQuillan, is 6'2".
- Red Sonja is definitely this.
- Shanna the She-Devil stands at 5'10".
- The Amazonian Beauty Stunner from Spider-Man, whose name is quite appropriate.
- Caitlin Fairchild of Gen 13 is 6'4".
- Hulk's ill-fated wife Caiera from the Planet Hulk arc is approximately 7 feet tall. When side-by-side with her husband, she's shown to be only about a head shorter than the Hulk (who on his worst days is between 7' and 8').
- By default, Giganta of The DCU is 6'6" (in a bit of irony, she was involved with Ryan Choi, the fourth Atom). Her usual attire? A leopard-skin two-piece Loin Cloth, although she swapped it out for a leather jumpsuit as of One Year Later.
- Sif and Valkyrie, Thor's fellow Asgardians (and in the case of the former, his destined Victorious Childhood Friend) are respectively 6'2" and 6'3". Amora (The Enchantress) is also 6'3".
- Two of the Spider-Women count. Jessica Drew, the first and current Spider-Woman, is 5'10", while Julia Carpenter, the second who now goes by the name of Arachne and later became the new Madame Web, is 5'9".
- Grace Choi, the former Bouncer first introduced in Batman and the Outsiders. In addition to being an Amazonian Beauty (and bisexual, if anyone cares), she's about seven feet tall.
- Aspen Matthews of Fathom.
- Amazonian Beauty Quadra-Blu from Max Rep.
- Evidently, Lady Death and her half-sister Vandala.
- In Echo, the Phi-project is slowly altering Julie Martin's body, making her grow larger and larger until she towers over everybody else in the group. People soon begin to assume that she is an actress or model, and when she denies anything of the sort they refuse to accept that she is not at least somehow a sex icon.
- Ms. Tree stands six foot even.
- Singer/actress Grace Jones fits this trope in real life and her film roles, most notably A View to a Kill and Conan The Destroyer
- Real-life supermodel Amber Valetta in Hitch, especially compared to her suitor Kevin James.
- Avatar: Technically any female Na'vi; Dr. Grace (Sigourney Weaver) towers over most of her coworkers.
Literature[edit | hide]
- Cimorene of the Enchanted Forest Chronicles is mentioned to be as tall as most men.
- Honor Harrington, who at her 188 cm (6'2") is one of the taller characters in the series. The fact that she considered herself a Huge Schoolgirl in her youth, with attendant self-esteem issues, had large implications in the early books.
- In the Discworld - stripper Tawnee is over six feet tall. We also have the Amazonian policewoman Precious Jolson, a woman her diminutive patrol partner claims to have the muscles of a troll on her.
- Evelyn, the narrator and protagonist of "Paper Chains" by Jane Langton, is a six-foot red-head. And her parents have always encouraged her not to slouch.
- Lanfear of The Wheel of Time, who is consistently stated to be the World's Most Beautiful Woman and stands almost as tall as the 6'6" Rand al'Thor.
- Many female characters in The Dresden Files, both human (Charity, Molly, Georgia, etc.) and otherwise (Gard, Lara, Lea, etc.), to the point that Author Appeal is strongly suspected.
- However, notably averted with the most prominent female of the series: Karrin Murphy is five feet even.
- On the other hand, they are almost all blonde. And curvy.
- Galadriel of The Lord of the Rings et al. is this. She is said to be 6'4" and one of the most stunning beauties in Middle Earth.
- Lizzy of the web-novel Domina is described as bronze-skinned, golden-eyed, and over six feet. Sounds like the description of a Greek goddess.
- Ellie and Sarah from Chuck.
- C.J. Cregg from The West Wing. No doubt inspired by her actress, Allison Janney.
- Lampshaded when the White House decorator tries to get her to redecorate her office to be more like Dolley Madison's.
Decorator: But it's lovely, and feminine.
CJ: Dolley-with-an-E Madison was maybe 5'3.
CJ: (stands up and stares down at her)
Decorator: ... Of course.
- The eponymous character of Xena: Warrior Princess.
- Mini from Skins fits all the requirements of this trope, with Freya Mavor, the actress who plays her, being a 5'10" blonde with light eyes, freckles and wavy hair.
- Laura Prepon, who played Donna Pinciotti on That '70s Show, is 5'10", and throughout the series, was touted as the single hottest girl in Point Place.
- Barbara Feldon on Get Smart had to slump a bit next to star Don Adams.
- Catwoman, as played by Julie Newmar on Batman, was 5'11". Wearing heels, she even towered over her own henchmen.
- Ghost Whisperer: Andrea Moreno (Aisha Tyler), Melinda's six-foot-tall Black Best Friend who was killed off at the end of the first season.
- The actress who plays Sansa Stark in A Game of Thrones is still in her early teens, and is already taller than most men, made easier by several of the adult male actors not being particularly tall. The actress who will play Brienne of Tarth is absolutely gargantuan, but is far more attractive than the character described in the novels.
- Word of God has it that part of what won her the role of Brienne is that she showed up to her audition done up to look as homely as Brienne does in the books.
- Number Six of Battlestar Galactica Reimagined, played by fanboy-endorsed Tricia Helfer who stands at 5'11". Especially in the miniseries she towers over 5'8" James Callis (Baltar).
- Companion/miniskirt enthusiast Amy Pond of Doctor Who, portrayed by the 5'11" Karen Gillan.
- Blake Lively is somewhat taller than her Gossip Girl co-star Leighton Meester (she's a touch over 5'10", Leighton... isn't) and many of the rest of the cast, a point acknowledged in "The Magnificent Archibalds":
Aaron: Serena's life is complicated?
Dan: Yeah. I don't know about you but the Serena I know has long, flowing blonde hair, towers over both of us?
- Which would explain why the artwork for The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants (both movies) tries to play down Blake's height (she towers over the other members of the sisterhood as well, especially America Ferrera).
- In an episode of Law and Order SVU, a perp refers to Casey Novak as "blonde and statuesque." Diane Neal is 5'10 and quite attractive, both in-universe and out.
- Steven Tyler committed a serious faux pas on season 11 of American Idol by referring to Shannon Magrane, who is over six feet tall at age 16, as "hot, humid, and happening". Directly to her father's face. Who happens to be a former pro athlete.
Video Games[edit | hide]
- Samus Aran from the Metroid series has a listed height of 190 cm (6'3"), though it isn't specified whether that measurement applies to her or her Power Suit. (In-game sprites for armorless Samus are always depicted a bit shorter than their armored counterparts. The trope holds in either instance, though.)
- Grune of Tales of Legendia is one of the tallest characters in the cast, which enables her to smother her friends, during her quirky amnesiac phase.
- Vanessa Lewis, Sarah Bryant, and Dural from Virtua Fighter.
- Elena from Street Fighter III is the tallest female in the series at 6'0". Depending on the Artist, Chun-Li's long stems qualify her as well, and even her official height tends to fluctuate.
- The Dark Queen from Battletoads is a Dark Action Girl version. One write up puts her at 6' tall, but she appears even taller in Boss Battles, nearly twice the height of the protagonists.
- Ivy from Soul Calibur is one of the tallest characters, let alone women, in the entire series.
- Fran from Final Fantasy XII towers over most of the cast at 6'1¾". And that's not even taking her rabbit ears or stilettos into account!
- Other ladies from the Final Fantasy series who fall into this trope are Celes (5'8") and Fang (5'9").
- Rips from the Dissidia Final Fantasy renders make it clear that Cosmos, Ultimecia, and the Cloud of Darkness subscribe to this trope: Cosmos scrapes in at an estimated 5'9", Ultimecia qualifies at around 5'10", and the Cloud of Darkness absolutely blows them all away at roughly 6'7" barefoot.
- The Metal Gear Solid series has Meryl Silverburgh, Fortune, Sniper Wolf, EVA, and The Boss.
- Rival Schools' Natsu Ayuhara, who is a shade under 6 feet tall (182 cm) and gets more than her fair share of fanservice shots. Kyoko Minazuki (173 cm/5'8.5") and Zaki (175 cm/5'9") are also as pretty as they are tall, but their height isn't paid attention to like Natsu's is.
- Lili Rochefort from Tekken stands at 5'9". According to official sources, Jun Kazama and Kunimitsu also count. Normally, neither are particular fanservicey, but Jun's 1P outfit consists of a midriff-baring top and Zettai Ryouiki, while Kuni received a Taki-esque jumpsuit (complete with a Cleavage Window) as her 3P outfit in Tekken Tag Tournament.
- There are quite a few from The King of Fighters: Whip (173 cm/5'8"), Shermie (173 cm/5'8"), Elisabeth (174 cm/5'8½"), Lien (174cm/5'8½"), King (175 cm/5'9"), Luise (175 cm/5'9"), Leona (176 cm/5'9¼"), Mature (177cm/5'9.6"), Vice (178 cm/5'10"), Foxy (181 cm/5'11⅓"), Vanessa (182cm/6'), Diana (188cm/6'2"), and especially Jun (199 cm/6'6.3"). Whip and Foxy (and depending on the game, King and Elisabeth) are more conservatively dressed than most, but their depiction in artwork tends to say otherwise.
- Lady Jane Proudmore in World of Warcraft. It's easy to see she towers over any PC who speaks to her.
- Amazonian Beauty Angela Belti of Power Instinct stands at over 6 feet tall.
- Cynthia from Pokémon.
- While official heights are rarely (if ever) given out via Word of God (leading fans to deduce rough estimates), one could argue that the likes of Erika, Sabrina, Lorelei, Jasmine, Clair, Karen, Rocket Executive Ariana, Flannery, Pike Queen Lucy, Cheryl, Fantina, Arcade Star Dahlia, Hall Matron Argenta, Elesa, and Caitlin qualify for this status as well. Keep in mind that most of these gals also have a fondness for high-heeled shoes.
- Bayonetta has not been given any particular measurements, but has been estimated to stand 12 heads tall from her official art, due in no small part to her ridiculously long legs.
- Like with most things concerning Touhou, character height mostly depends on the preference of fans, but Komachi Onozuka and Yuugi Hoshiguma are universally portrayed as quite tall.
- In The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, most females of a race tend to be a smidge beneath the males in height (the males usually being the baseline 1.0x according to the Construction Set). Nordic women match the men in the height multiplier at 1.06x. High elf women match the men in height at 1.1x. In an odd case, the Wood Elf men are the shortest of all races and sexes, and the women are more akin to the typical height of most other females in the other races.
- Even some of the Daedric races fall under this trope, too. Male Golden Saints and Dark Seducers are around the same height as most of the Tamrielic races, but the females have the same height and physical build as the Dremora (1.1x).
- Tina and Lisa from the Dead or Alive series are 174 cm/5'9", and Christie is 177 cm/5'10".
- Jill Valentine, according to her bio in the REmake of the first Resident Evil, was originally 166 cm/5'5", but this stat has been retconned to 172 cm/5'8" as of Resident Evil 5. Excella Gionne (also from 5) is approximately 175cm/5'9".
- From the Outbreak titles, there's also waitress Cindy Lennox, who stands at 175 cm/5'9".
- Golden Axe features Red Sonja Captain Ersatz Tyris Flare, who stands at 5'8".
- The Dark Queen from Battletoads stands at 6 feet tall, according to official stats. Although that doesn't explain how she is a giant compared to the Battletoads themselves in the original, who are supposed to be even taller.
- Oulan from Suikoden II towers even over Viktor and Pesmerga, who are both over six feet tall, and is in fact the tallest humanoid character in the entire game, only beat out by the large-size beasts. Sid appears taller, but only because of his wings. Jeane also counts (as well as for every other game thereafter), being only slightly shorter than Viktor and wearing pretty much nothing but see-through gauze on her person.
- Perhaps Exaggerated Trope with Hot Goddess Raijin from Muramasa: The Demon Blade, a giantess approximately 3.5 times the size of the player. She dwarfs just about every humanoid character in the game. This is especially notable when she stands opposite of her romantic partner Fujin, who is a tiny, adorable imp. However, this is probably Justified Trope in that Raijin serves as a boss, so she needs to be imposing.
- In Fable 2 and 3, the female player character is at least a head taller than everyone else.
- Most female Norns in Guild Wars: Eye of the North can safely count as this, along with Hot Amazon and Amazonian Beauty. They're all at LEAST nine feet tall. And most of them can transform into werebears.
- In Rift, female Bahmi are taller than male humans, but can be as attractive as any race.
- City of Heroes, with its highly customizable character creator, lets players invoke this... however, one dev-created example is the hero Swan, who stands near Manticore (the shortest NPC male), and is about 2 feet taller than him.
- Merveille from Solatorobo stands at 180 cm/5'11", making her much taller than many of the male characters who have their heights listed. In fact, the only character stated to be taller than her is Big Bad Bruno, who is 190 cm/6'3". While no one comments on her appearance specifically, the manual describes her as attractive and Béluga seems quite fond of her as well, though he may be interested in her mind as much as anything.
- The female Ogres from Dragon Quest X are taller than every other player character save their Spear Counterparts, and are very attractive to boot.
- Luminous Arc has resident Ms. Fanservice Vanessa. Though she doesn't have an official height, she towers over the teenage protagonists and has a few inches on all the adults—in fact, the only person taller than her without the aid of a Nice Hat is the Final Boss. The facts she's rather abundantly proportioned only makes her seem even bigger than she already is.
Web Comics[edit | hide]
- From Polymer City Chronicles, Mistress Laura and Lynn Deanna "Lindy" Jones (respectively modeled after Lady Death and Lara Croft) are both 5'9". Blue Skinned Space Babe Andrah is a towering 7'1" (her mohawk adds on another seven inches), which makes her marriage to the scrawny, 5'8" Dr. Otto Bonn, Ph.D. all the more noticeable. Thanks to Chris Morrison's distinctive style, in addition to being large, these women sport oversized bosoms and ripped physiques.
- Pretty much any female drow in Drowtales falls under this by default, since female drowolath average around six feet, but Mel'arnach deserves special mention for towering over even the other women and being the Ms. Fanservice. Generally speaking drowolath females are taller than the males, though there are exceptions, including Valo (on the left), who is head and shoulders above almost everyone, and the opposite is true for drowussu, where the males are generally taller than the females.
- Di from Fans! is taller than just about everyone, male or female, hot and athletic. For bonus humor, her mentor is Rumiko, who is tiny.
- Phix of Wapsi Square tends towards this in her human form. It would seem that Monica's boss likes taller women.
- Amanda of El Goonish Shive is large-breasted and exploits it with a Form-Fitting Wardrobe, in addition to be lusted after by Lisa. Word of God puts her at 5'10".
Web Original[edit | hide]
- Margaret Shaw, a former superhero turned bodyguard-for-hire in the Global Guardians PBEM Universe, stands 7'9". She's also Nigh Invulnerable and capable of lifting semi-trucks over her head.
- Tatjana in the Chaos Timeline is about six feet.
- Pala from Tales of MU looks like this, but because of her awkwardness comes off as a Huge Schoolgirl as well. She is, however, a storm giant, if a small one.
- In Shadowjack Watches Sailor Moon, Ami is implied to have a thing for this sort of women.
- Leela, who stands shoulder to shoulder with Fry and can clobber anyone, and still be gorgeous.
- Also, Hermes' wife, Labarbara Conrad, is noticeably taller than nearly every other human we meet.
- Every resident of Amazonia (from "Amazon Women in the Mood") qualifies, being an Always Female race of Nubile Savages who seem to average 15 feet tall.
- Penelope Pitstop is almost as tall as Sylvester Sneekly/the Hooded Claw.
- In a case of Depending on the series, April O'Neil.
- Avatar Kyoshi, as seen in flashbacks in Avatar: The Last Airbender, was a vertically gifted woman to abnormal proportions.
- This happens often enough in Avatar that you could possibly call Author Appeal on it. Katara, while quite short on her own, is significantly taller than Aang even once they become an Official Couple. Also, Mai is tall enough to look her boyfriend Zuko (the tallest Gaang member) in the eye.
- Mother Gothel from Tangled: "Somebody get me a glass, 'cause I found a tall drink o' water!"
- Jessica Rabbit of Who Framed Roger Rabbit? towers over both Roger Rabbit and Eddie Valiant.
- Like her comicbook counterpart, Teen Titans' Kory/Starfire is among the tallest members of the group, and still very fetish-y. For starters, she bares her midriff, has long, shapely legs, has a nice bosom, sports Zettai Ryouiki, is a Badass Adorable...
- Candace from Phineas and Ferb is 5'8", and only age 15, which would make her a Huge Schoolgirl. Get to her future self and...
- Vanessa is the same height as her, and is bustier and wears leather all the time.
- In the Kick Buttowski episode "Bwar and Peace", Brad falls in love with a Viking woman so tall her face is always offscreen.
- And when you do take these into account, she's the tallest playable character in the main Final Fantasy series (the offline games, at least).